girlfriend wants half!
Discussion
Alfa1988 said:
Sorry to hijack this thread but it's become quite pertinent to me as my relationship with my fiancé has broken down since I found out she's been shagging a guy she works with! We have been cohabiting for two years but the flat we live in is in my name, owned by myself for the last seven years and she hasn't paid any contributions to any bills. Does she have any claim to the flat? I presumed (and still hoped) we would be treated as cohabiting (since we are engaged and not married) and she'd be entitled to nothing?
Cheers for any advice
I wonder what would happen if you moved your best friend into the property and announce that you have actually been engaged to him for the last 3 years but have kept it quiet because you didn't want your friends and family knowing you were gay. Get said friend to start contributing to property so not only you been engaged to friend longer but also he has stake in property via the contribution hes made which will take priority over stake ex fiance may have had. Six months later end engagement with friend who accepts back the exact amount that he has paid into the property.Cheers for any advice
Alfa1988 said:
That's good to know. I was aware it's essential for the other party to have legal advice but not about updating it. Going back to my original question Julian can she claim a "beneficial interest" if she's never paid a penny towards the house or bills? I realise it's complicated and she'd have to go to court to go down this route.
It is very complex but basically if she has made no financial contribution towards the property as you have stated (and I assume this also means any renovation or other work) then she should find it very difficult to put forward a case of beneficial interest in it.Also remember that beneficial interest carries with it a right of continued residence upon separation (not just a share in the asset) so the courts do not award this lightly as they are familiar with the other real world problems this can open up.
This is no legal measure but a basic rule of thumb; Anything she pays for that a rental tenant would be reasonably expected to pay for (such as repainting walls in a preferred colour) would not count towards beneficial ownership. Anything she pays for that would be unreasonable for a rental tenant to pay for (such as structural work, kitchen/bathroom refurbishment, etc.) could be classed towards beneficial ownership.
JulianPH said:
It is very complex but basically if she has made no financial contribution towards the property as you have stated (and I assume this also means any renovation or other work) then she should find it very difficult to put forward a case of beneficial interest in it.
Also remember that beneficial interest carries with it a right of continued residence upon separation (not just a share in the asset) so the courts do not award this lightly as they are familiar with the other real world problems this can open up.
This is no legal measure but a basic rule of thumb; Anything she pays for that a rental tenant would be reasonably expected to pay for (such as repainting walls in a preferred colour) would not count towards beneficial ownership. Anything she pays for that would be unreasonable for a rental tenant to pay for (such as structural work, kitchen/bathroom refurbishment, etc.) could be classed towards beneficial ownership.
Thank you Julian, I really appreciate you replying. She has never contributed anything financially I have even funded our holidays (reading this back I sound like a complete mug but I'm sure I'm not the first man to fall into this situation). My income has basically tripled since we met hence me funding everything. her wage literally goes on her car (which fortunately I didn't fund) and all the usual things women spend money on. I have a feeling her PCP'd TT may be going back soon when she looks at her finances!! Also remember that beneficial interest carries with it a right of continued residence upon separation (not just a share in the asset) so the courts do not award this lightly as they are familiar with the other real world problems this can open up.
This is no legal measure but a basic rule of thumb; Anything she pays for that a rental tenant would be reasonably expected to pay for (such as repainting walls in a preferred colour) would not count towards beneficial ownership. Anything she pays for that would be unreasonable for a rental tenant to pay for (such as structural work, kitchen/bathroom refurbishment, etc.) could be classed towards beneficial ownership.
Alfa1988 said:
Thank you Julian, I really appreciate you replying. She has never contributed anything financially I have even funded our holidays (reading this back I sound like a complete mug but I'm sure I'm not the first man to fall into this situation). My income has basically tripled since we met hence me funding everything. her wage literally goes on her car (which fortunately I didn't fund) and all the usual things women spend money on. I have a feeling her PCP'd TT may be going back soon when she looks at her finances!!
No problem, happy to help. Sorry to hear of your circumstances but I doubt very much she will be aware of the potential for rights under this Act (as virtually no one does) and will be highly unlikely to seek legal advice. Also, if she has been doing what you suspect then this further diminishes any remote likelihood of such.Try and part as amicably as possible and don't let things escalate over relatively minor matters (such as personal possessions) so she has no reason to seek any legal advice. To be honest though, many family solicitors do not even raise this possibility as it is very complex (read expensive) and there is no other financial remedy available to guarantee their fees will be paid (unlike a divorce)!
The Act does not allow the courts to impose the sale of your property either. Basically, unless an ex can clearly show they have paid towards the deposit and mortgage, that there was a genuine reason they are not on the title deeds and the property is worth significant value (with you having a sum equal to her share readily or easily available) these things never go anywhere.
Foliage said:
Just ignore the silly cow. Once she gets a solicitor send her a bill for half of everything you paid for minus half of everything she paid for. She how she likes that.
I have a feeling she won't mind that in the slightest as the bill would not be legally enforceable. It might give her and her solicitor a good laugh though.The trick is not to let it elevate to solicitors as this has a habit of spiralling out of control and causing unnecessary costs and stress for both parties.
I'm in virtually the same situation, other than my ex's name is on the on the mortgage. Despite her not contributing to buying the house and not paying half her of her share of the mortgage. She's sent me a legal letter saying she wants half of everything even though we had an agreement that we'd keep what we put into the house and split any profits 50/50. I'm meeting a lawyer this evening. If I find out anything that helps I'll let you know.
element404 said:
I'm in virtually the same situation, other than my ex's name is on the on the mortgage. Despite her not contributing to buying the house and not paying half her of her share of the mortgage. She's sent me a legal letter saying she wants half of everything even though we had an agreement that we'd keep what we put into the house and split any profits 50/50. I'm meeting a lawyer this evening. If I find out anything that helps I'll let you know.
If she is on the deeds then that doesn't look very promising.element404 said:
I'm in virtually the same situation, other than my ex's name is on the on the mortgage. Despite her not contributing to buying the house and not paying half her of her share of the mortgage. She's sent me a legal letter saying she wants half of everything even though we had an agreement that we'd keep what we put into the house and split any profits 50/50. I'm meeting a lawyer this evening. If I find out anything that helps I'll let you know.
Your solicitor (unless you are using direct access to see a barrister) will be able to advise you better than anyone here as (s)he will have the full facts as you disclose them. Please disclose everything, you have no idea how often clients do not do this and then get shot down with no way of being defended.The main question I would be prepared for is - why is she on the mortgage if she has no beneficial interest in the property?
Without any further knowledge I would say that you should get together all documentation (bank statements and financial transactions) to prove clearly that you have paid for everything regarding the property. Also get documentation regarding your debts. This may not be enough to stop court action but if that does happen you will need them to complete a Form E in any event, so it is not a waste of time.
At this stage it maybe worthwhile make an offer (without prejudice - your legal representative can explain if you are unfamiliar with this term), but equally this often exasperates the situation (by setting expectations on the other side to high).
When you say ex, do you mean ex wife, ex fiancée or ex girlfriend? This is very important (though less so if she is actually on the mortgage, I am afraid to say).
If I can help further then please let me know, but in your situation I think you need to have a lengthy and honest conversation with an experienced family law practitioner.
Don't worry, just accept that you may have to pay her some money, you possibly may not, if you do it will be on the growth of the property - not the value of it - and the courts cannot force you to sell (unless you are married) just because you are/were engaged.
PM me if you like, but have your meeting first as this is likely to bring about the better resolution for you.
Good luck!
Armadillo 43 said:
Ignoring all the pointless "advice" above, the only sensible thing to do is go to a Citizens' Advice Bureau, or a solicitor who offers initial advice free, and find out what the position really is.
Congratulations on the outstanding contribution to this thread you have just made.There are many people on PH that can actually offer some sensible advice and perspective. Your post may have carried greater gravitas had it not suggested that the only time you have ever been called to the bar was for last orders.
Good luck for your 3rd post.
If she want 50 k pay off ,do you really want the house if not tell her she can have it and pay you the 50k plus, I did that with my ex wife of 10 years guess what she exept ed my offer of a 3rd of the original buying price less the deposit I payed and all the morgage payments I had made ends up with £1500 on a house woth then 54k ,should have kept her legs togther
MCLARENSLR said:
Alfa1988 said:
Sorry to hijack this thread but it's become quite pertinent to me as my relationship with my fiancé has broken down since I found out she's been shagging a guy she works with! We have been cohabiting for two years but the flat we live in is in my name, owned by myself for the last seven years and she hasn't paid any contributions to any bills. Does she have any claim to the flat? I presumed (and still hoped) we would be treated as cohabiting (since we are engaged and not married) and she'd be entitled to nothing?
Cheers for any advice
I wonder what would happen if you moved your best friend into the property and announce that you have actually been engaged to him for the last 3 years but have kept it quiet because you didn't want your friends and family knowing you were gay. Get said friend to start contributing to property so not only you been engaged to friend longer but also he has stake in property via the contribution hes made which will take priority over stake ex fiance may have had. Six months later end engagement with friend who accepts back the exact amount that he has paid into the property.Cheers for any advice
peterz3 said:
If she want 50 k pay off ,do you really want the house if not tell her she can have it and pay you the 50k plus, I did that with my ex wife of 10 years guess what she exept ed my offer of a 3rd of the original buying price less the deposit I payed and all the morgage payments I had made ends up with £1500 on a house woth then 54k ,should have kept her legs togther
I think this nails it.Kwailty input. Just don't waste any cash - follow pete.
JulianPH said:
Armadillo 43 said:
Ignoring all the pointless "advice" above, the only sensible thing to do is go to a Citizens' Advice Bureau, or a solicitor who offers initial advice free, and find out what the position really is.
Congratulations on the outstanding contribution to this thread you have just made.There are many people on PH that can actually offer some sensible advice and perspective. Your post may have carried greater gravitas had it not suggested that the only time you have ever been called to the bar was for last orders.
Good luck for your 3rd post.
1. In all these situations, the law will have a view, I found it best just to follow that!
2. If people have been through it, yes they'll have a view, however many cases are unique.
With marriage and no children and a young marriage for example, the courts seek to put you back as you where before marriage - or they did with me, seems sensible!
I would have thought that she would be entitled to any increase in equity in the house in the short time you've lived together?? My ex's where but I was married.
Go take advice and follow it!
JulianPH said:
Armadillo 43 said:
Ignoring all the pointless "advice" above, the only sensible thing to do is go to a Citizens' Advice Bureau, or a solicitor who offers initial advice free, and find out what the position really is.
Congratulations on the outstanding contribution to this thread you have just made.There are many people on PH that can actually offer some sensible advice and perspective. Your post may have carried greater gravitas had it not suggested that the only time you have ever been called to the bar was for last orders.
Good luck for your 3rd post.
liking the 'called to the bar'
And assuming the guise of many other "experts" at various times.Gassing Station | Finance | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff