Mortgage : Lender down valued a huge amount, advice.
Discussion
so I've just read the OP post because i'm busy - so apologies in advance.
I had a similar thing - the official surveyor from the lender (wasn't based in London which I think had bearing but the house was) came back with a 30k under the offer that had been accepted.
The surveyor simply didn't understand the London market.
They wouldn't budge - I tried everything. I even got an independent surveyor paid again who valued it at more than the asking price. However, the lender wouldn't change.
In the end - I had to find other ways to get the shortfall of the money - which was very frustrating and stressful.
2 years later...........and the house is worth much more than either of the numbers and I was correct to risk it (with the added bonus that my mortgage is lower than it would have been)
It's almost like the surveyors have been told to help in house price reduction in London!
I had a similar thing - the official surveyor from the lender (wasn't based in London which I think had bearing but the house was) came back with a 30k under the offer that had been accepted.
The surveyor simply didn't understand the London market.
They wouldn't budge - I tried everything. I even got an independent surveyor paid again who valued it at more than the asking price. However, the lender wouldn't change.
In the end - I had to find other ways to get the shortfall of the money - which was very frustrating and stressful.
2 years later...........and the house is worth much more than either of the numbers and I was correct to risk it (with the added bonus that my mortgage is lower than it would have been)
It's almost like the surveyors have been told to help in house price reduction in London!
Sarnie said:
Hmmm..............Really???
Natwest think it's worth £380k and are prepared to lend £380k???
Something is amiss here......
That's what I thought. Who knows. Wouldn't put it past the mortgage advisor to be wrong about that. Either way the application with NatWest had apparently lapsed. So fingers crossed for something reasonable from Accord I guess. Natwest think it's worth £380k and are prepared to lend £380k???
Something is amiss here......
Daniel
The Selfish said:
I had a similar thing - the official surveyor from the lender came back with a 30k under....
The surveyor simply didn't understand the London market.
They wouldn't budge - I tried everything. I even got an independent surveyor paid again who valued it at more than the asking price. However, the lender wouldn't change.
In the end - I had to find other ways to get the shortfall of the money - which was very frustrating and stressful.
2 years later...........and the house is worth much more than either of the numbers and I was correct to risk it!
Yes. All maddnes. I can't understand why a lot are unsuccessful, and it wouldn't supprise me if some appeals are applaulingly put together. However I've yet to hear of q single one every go through. Why have the process of that's the case. Not every valuation can't be perfect. The surveyor simply didn't understand the London market.
They wouldn't budge - I tried everything. I even got an independent surveyor paid again who valued it at more than the asking price. However, the lender wouldn't change.
In the end - I had to find other ways to get the shortfall of the money - which was very frustrating and stressful.
2 years later...........and the house is worth much more than either of the numbers and I was correct to risk it!
Sigh
Daniel
Good luck. It can be a right pain when you find the property you want but struggle to get everything to line up.
However, if valuers keep telling you that it’s worth a lower price then this is what every potential purchaser who is having to borrow will be finding and unless a cash buyer or near cash buyer appears then the vendor is going to have to deal much closer to the real price than the inflated price given by the estate agent.
Also, what kind of mortgage are you aiming for? Fixed? If so, what happens at rollover if the lender decides to mark your property back down should you manage to have got them to mark it up in the first instance? What’s your backup plan for finding a large amount of cash in 2,3 or 5 years time?
I think you need to be very careful if you are trying to force a lender to increase their valuation as they may do it once but may well not do it next time and want you to cover the change. And by all accounts you’d have stripped yourself to the bone to get it done in the first instance.
However, if valuers keep telling you that it’s worth a lower price then this is what every potential purchaser who is having to borrow will be finding and unless a cash buyer or near cash buyer appears then the vendor is going to have to deal much closer to the real price than the inflated price given by the estate agent.
Also, what kind of mortgage are you aiming for? Fixed? If so, what happens at rollover if the lender decides to mark your property back down should you manage to have got them to mark it up in the first instance? What’s your backup plan for finding a large amount of cash in 2,3 or 5 years time?
I think you need to be very careful if you are trying to force a lender to increase their valuation as they may do it once but may well not do it next time and want you to cover the change. And by all accounts you’d have stripped yourself to the bone to get it done in the first instance.
DonkeyApple said:
Good luck. It can be a right pain when you find the property you want but struggle to get everything to line up.
However, if valuers keep telling you that it’s worth a lower price then this is what every potential purchaser who is having to borrow will be finding and unless a cash buyer or near cash buyer appears then the vendor is going to have to deal much closer to the real price than the inflated price given by the estate agent.
Also, what kind of mortgage are you aiming for? Fixed? If so, what happens at rollover if the lender decides to mark your property back down should you manage to have got them to mark it up in the first instance? What’s your backup plan for finding a large amount of cash in 2,3 or 5 years time?
I think you need to be very careful if you are trying to force a lender to increase their valuation as they may do it once but may well not do it next time and want you to cover the change. And by all accounts you’d have stripped yourself to the bone to get it done in the first instance.
Yes. Seems reasonable.However, if valuers keep telling you that it’s worth a lower price then this is what every potential purchaser who is having to borrow will be finding and unless a cash buyer or near cash buyer appears then the vendor is going to have to deal much closer to the real price than the inflated price given by the estate agent.
Also, what kind of mortgage are you aiming for? Fixed? If so, what happens at rollover if the lender decides to mark your property back down should you manage to have got them to mark it up in the first instance? What’s your backup plan for finding a large amount of cash in 2,3 or 5 years time?
I think you need to be very careful if you are trying to force a lender to increase their valuation as they may do it once but may well not do it next time and want you to cover the change. And by all accounts you’d have stripped yourself to the bone to get it done in the first instance.
The plan is 5 years fixed, given the market conditions, so that is a concern but also be then we hope to have enough equity in that its not a major issue anyway.
Certainly I think we need to put it fairly robustly the the vendor if this second valuation is anything like the first, given this sort of risk. We hope to be there many years, like until well into retirement, 40 years or so. However life plan can change and we wouldn't want to be too trapped should jobs move, family changes, etc.
Daniel
So.
Accord got back to use this morning, valuation all fine, came up to 465k so they can lend the full amount as per our affordablility. This is 400k, down 20k from what we could afford with the primary lender, but a blood awesome result really.
Two out of the tree valuations (homebuyers, then two two lender) come out as per the offer.
We have put in a revised post-survay offer of 445k which has been declined, so we are spending the considering our next move.
Daniel
Accord got back to use this morning, valuation all fine, came up to 465k so they can lend the full amount as per our affordablility. This is 400k, down 20k from what we could afford with the primary lender, but a blood awesome result really.
Two out of the tree valuations (homebuyers, then two two lender) come out as per the offer.
We have put in a revised post-survay offer of 445k which has been declined, so we are spending the considering our next move.
Daniel
Jobbo said:
Is the vendor going to be willing to sell to you now? After dragging things out with the mortgage valuation you’ve got a valuation equal to your offer, but you’ve reduced the offer. I’d be putting the house back on the market if I were the seller.
It's another take on the situation.However they started taking viewings again a month ago, they haven't had any. The house has been on with the agent for two years, and was first listed all be it for 550 back in July 2014, no sale yet.
The vendor has personally said they want to sell to us as they like us. For whatever that's worth. Clearly not 20k. Who knows what is right, but for me it's worth asking given we really are going all out to get it though and to scrape together the cash. We could do it more easily onces my house has sold, but we have no idea when that will be and obviously don't want to keep people waiting longer then we have to.
Daniel
Jobbo said:
Is the vendor going to be willing to sell to you now? After dragging things out with the mortgage valuation you’ve got a valuation equal to your offer, but you’ve reduced the offer. I’d be putting the house back on the market if I were the seller.
It’s not really the market for a vendor to being playing hardball in and they also will know that it was their property causing the issue rather than the hopeful purchaser so it would be somewhat of a dick move to take it out on the OP. Jobbo said:
They’ve waited 4 years; I wonder if they’d wait longer. Unless the survey revealed £20k of urgent work, I think dropping the offer later on is a dick move, personally.
It’s been on the market for 4 years? Then they absolutely know it’s hugely overpriced. It’s a buyer’s market now and anyone stretching themselves at this time must do everything they can to protect themselves. Plus, it’s not like the OP is dropping the offer at the 11th hour to try and knock the vendor. That is a dick move. He has had no choice because the professionals involved in lending and valuing have disagreed with the high price tag written by the unprofessional vendor and semi professional commission salesman. The dick move would be to pay that inflated price really. Yeah, I mean its hard to know isnt it.
The seller wants to sell, has their onward purchase, and has had little other interest, with the only other offer we know of falling through for unknown reasons. We want to buy, currently three adults and a dog living in a 2 bed flat, but we are also fairly young (30+28) and stretching ourselves a bit to get the house we want for our family home. However having had it rolling on for three months we're not to the day, thankfully.
As a timeline:
It was put on at £550 in 2014 with another agent, and didn't sell. They also listed the end of the garden for £250k, now sold and being built on.
Then with the agent at 495 in Aug 2016, reduced to 485 by the time we saw it.
We then agreed at 465k mid January and commissioned a home buyers and mortgage.
Had a second viewing end February, shortly before our lender came back with 380k valuation.
Then went with a lender who said they would lend against home-buyers, but then found they advised us wrong, tail between legs.
Valuation from them then came in at 465k, 24 hour after the survey, having presumably pulled out the stops for such a turn around.
As said, the main reason for the delay is the huge down valuation with our Lender of choice. We then went with a non-preferred vendor because a large number of the vendors used the same valuation company, legal & general, and we where advised its was likely that would come back the same. That then fell apart, there where very apologetic, and have pulled out all the stops to get this valuation turned around quickly. Part of my wonders is Accord have lent on Legal & General (came company, different surveyor) to get the valuation they wanted to avoid a formal complaint. We may never know that. And although we take some solace in the valuation of the home-buyers, that is obviously not the same as a lenders mortgage valuation, and they conflict of interest is different, as regardless of how professional the valuers are being there is a human element.
Who knows. I am now going to ring the Agents and say we can offer 455k, having spent the evening counting out beans and asking her parents for the additional 10k on top of the money we have borrowed from my parents. With the 27k stamp duty, 46k deposit, and 20k shortfall, to meet the asking price you talking 100k by the time you have paid for solicitors and three survays!
Partner is tied to half a the flat, which her sister lives in and cant offered buy her out yet. So while we're hopeful going to get that back within the three year window, likely to spend it in replacing shot render, and my house should create enough equity to pay back our parents as and when it sells, its all very real money and the extra 20k takes it from a bit of a stretch basically beyond us. At this point the 10k could make or break it.
The low valuation survey doesn't show urgent work, but real risk, that another buyer could face the same issue if we had to sell. The elec survey showed the wiring is 50 years old with no earth in any of the lighting, all metal fittings and switches throughout. The home-buyers highlighted plants growing through the roof into the loft space due to over hanging trees and no maintenance and that the chimney has cracks in it, all the render is shot, bathrooms are all 20yo bar one that's been rushed to sell. So while we love it, it also needs work.
Daniel
The seller wants to sell, has their onward purchase, and has had little other interest, with the only other offer we know of falling through for unknown reasons. We want to buy, currently three adults and a dog living in a 2 bed flat, but we are also fairly young (30+28) and stretching ourselves a bit to get the house we want for our family home. However having had it rolling on for three months we're not to the day, thankfully.
As a timeline:
It was put on at £550 in 2014 with another agent, and didn't sell. They also listed the end of the garden for £250k, now sold and being built on.
Then with the agent at 495 in Aug 2016, reduced to 485 by the time we saw it.
We then agreed at 465k mid January and commissioned a home buyers and mortgage.
Had a second viewing end February, shortly before our lender came back with 380k valuation.
Then went with a lender who said they would lend against home-buyers, but then found they advised us wrong, tail between legs.
Valuation from them then came in at 465k, 24 hour after the survey, having presumably pulled out the stops for such a turn around.
As said, the main reason for the delay is the huge down valuation with our Lender of choice. We then went with a non-preferred vendor because a large number of the vendors used the same valuation company, legal & general, and we where advised its was likely that would come back the same. That then fell apart, there where very apologetic, and have pulled out all the stops to get this valuation turned around quickly. Part of my wonders is Accord have lent on Legal & General (came company, different surveyor) to get the valuation they wanted to avoid a formal complaint. We may never know that. And although we take some solace in the valuation of the home-buyers, that is obviously not the same as a lenders mortgage valuation, and they conflict of interest is different, as regardless of how professional the valuers are being there is a human element.
Who knows. I am now going to ring the Agents and say we can offer 455k, having spent the evening counting out beans and asking her parents for the additional 10k on top of the money we have borrowed from my parents. With the 27k stamp duty, 46k deposit, and 20k shortfall, to meet the asking price you talking 100k by the time you have paid for solicitors and three survays!
Partner is tied to half a the flat, which her sister lives in and cant offered buy her out yet. So while we're hopeful going to get that back within the three year window, likely to spend it in replacing shot render, and my house should create enough equity to pay back our parents as and when it sells, its all very real money and the extra 20k takes it from a bit of a stretch basically beyond us. At this point the 10k could make or break it.
The low valuation survey doesn't show urgent work, but real risk, that another buyer could face the same issue if we had to sell. The elec survey showed the wiring is 50 years old with no earth in any of the lighting, all metal fittings and switches throughout. The home-buyers highlighted plants growing through the roof into the loft space due to over hanging trees and no maintenance and that the chimney has cracks in it, all the render is shot, bathrooms are all 20yo bar one that's been rushed to sell. So while we love it, it also needs work.
Daniel
Edited by dhutch on Friday 27th April 09:19
Originally up for 550, 250 worth of land sold off and then it’s up for 495 having lost 250 worth of garden and gained a building sight next door. To me, that just suggests one almighty pisstake.
The fact that it clearly needs a lot of work and by your own admission you don’t even have the money for the deposit let alone getting any help to do the work, seems like madness.
The upward revision in the valuation has likely been achieved by appraising how much the property could be worth after you’ve done all the work to bring it up to standard? That in essence just means that you’re paying twice to do that work by giving the vendor the entire future uplift upfront and for them doing absolutely nothing . Which strikes me as madness.
You could be placing enormous strains on your relationship and it does read as if you are being driven by a desperate need to have your own home combined with the desperate shortage of certain property types. Not an uncommon problem for many upwardly mobile people at the moment.
I wish you all the best but do make sure that you’re not talking yourself into a costly disaster.
The fact that it clearly needs a lot of work and by your own admission you don’t even have the money for the deposit let alone getting any help to do the work, seems like madness.
The upward revision in the valuation has likely been achieved by appraising how much the property could be worth after you’ve done all the work to bring it up to standard? That in essence just means that you’re paying twice to do that work by giving the vendor the entire future uplift upfront and for them doing absolutely nothing . Which strikes me as madness.
You could be placing enormous strains on your relationship and it does read as if you are being driven by a desperate need to have your own home combined with the desperate shortage of certain property types. Not an uncommon problem for many upwardly mobile people at the moment.
I wish you all the best but do make sure that you’re not talking yourself into a costly disaster.
The 550k was already without the garden.
But yes, I mean we are aware that we are pushing the envelope of what we can afford. However while very tight now, it does become somewhat more free once my property is sold, and we should then get some equity from my partners flat when that is sold, which currently we expect to be within three years so we would also get 14k of the stamp duty back.
Its hard to know what to do, the days of property value shooting up, or guaranteed income related maternity pay and pensions etc are over, so there is a need to be appropriately cautious, however we have done the sums, accounted for the risks involved with rising interest rates, etc and we think we can do this. We're spend over a grand on three surveys, and an electrical inspection, and we have an amount of emotional attachment, but we have also looked at what else we can for the money in other areas, and while not everyone cup of tea this measures up well for us. And is got a double garage.
We have now put 455k to the agent, with an honest explanation of our position. Watch this space.
Daniel
But yes, I mean we are aware that we are pushing the envelope of what we can afford. However while very tight now, it does become somewhat more free once my property is sold, and we should then get some equity from my partners flat when that is sold, which currently we expect to be within three years so we would also get 14k of the stamp duty back.
Its hard to know what to do, the days of property value shooting up, or guaranteed income related maternity pay and pensions etc are over, so there is a need to be appropriately cautious, however we have done the sums, accounted for the risks involved with rising interest rates, etc and we think we can do this. We're spend over a grand on three surveys, and an electrical inspection, and we have an amount of emotional attachment, but we have also looked at what else we can for the money in other areas, and while not everyone cup of tea this measures up well for us. And is got a double garage.
We have now put 455k to the agent, with an honest explanation of our position. Watch this space.
Daniel
dhutch said:
We have now put 455k to the agent, with an honest explanation of our position. Watch this space.
Buggers have said know. I mean, maddness really.Dont know what the plan is with that. Sigh. If I had 10k worth of car I would sell it, but my cars worth £1800 and the drivers door handle has just fell off.
Daniel
Sarnie said:
Walk away.
In my opinion..............I wouldn't be so overly keen throw money at this property/scenario, to inherit the problems the vendor has had trying to sell this for the last few years........
I think they are stubborn, and have decided its worth 550, 495 which it isnt, however if its 465 I think the prices ok. In my opinion..............I wouldn't be so overly keen throw money at this property/scenario, to inherit the problems the vendor has had trying to sell this for the last few years........
The house will always be half an Edwardian mansion, but we cant afford a whole one, and really like the spaces it provides.
Casa1862 said:
This is where the agent needs to earn his/her worth. What are they saying?
Well yes. I think the are nice, but also not the greatest Estate Agents.The buyer is clearly suborn as an ox, they have little prospect of selling it to anyone else, and an onward purchase that hinges on the sale, personally I think they are mad and the vendor has basically said the same. But who knows. We are going to look at a few other houses over the weekend I think, but equally its been three months now and you do get emotionally attached. Its a nice, house
Stella Tortoise said:
I might have the wrong end of the stick having just skim read the thread.
Are you saying that the valuer has said it's only worth £380k but you are trying to find a way to make it worth more so that you can pay more for the place?
No. Home buyers and second lender values up at 465k, but first lender down valued to 380k.Are you saying that the valuer has said it's only worth £380k but you are trying to find a way to make it worth more so that you can pay more for the place?
First lender was find for affordability, but the second lender, mixed for other reasons, is 20k short of valuation.
Hence we are trying to get the vendor to split the valuation.
Daniel
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