Revolut.com - Opinions

[AndrewEH1]

DonkeyApple said:

AndrewEH1 said:

The article mentioned they are about to apply for a UK banking licence IIRC

There’s nothing to stop you from publishing an article saying that you plan to apply for something, or even applying for it.

They’ve used the crypto market to attract a lot of consumers and have avoided what seems to be rather a lot of the basic regulatory requirements re AML etc. I’m not sure they are permitted to still offer cryptos if they have a U.K. license? I’m not even sure it’s kosher under ECB governance?

I was merely reiterating the article, they are a UK based start up since 2015 and rather than applying for a UK banking licence first they get a Lithuanian one over three years later (unless they are worried about Brexit...but it's still a bit odd)

Crypto is crashing (has crashed) so perhaps they need to pivot away from that?

As said, Revolut is great for travelling and hassle free fx trading as you travel. But to use it as a proper bank/investment/savings account - please think carefully!!

[bad company]

DonkeyApple said:

As with all overseas and lightly regulated financial entities, just only use money that if lost has no material impact on your life whatsoever.

That seems to be the general PH conclusion. Seems sensible to me. I generally put £200 on mine and top when it’s down to £50 or so.

[seaninog]

Banking is important to me. I need service and Revolut didn't work for me. They have no email, no phone number and all service is done via an in-app chat which can take up to several days to reply. I found them very frustrating and a quick scan of the comments on their Facebook page suggests I'm not alone.

I still have the account for personal currency transfers which is handy but I don't use them for any serious business. For my actual business I selected TransferWise after much deliberation and so far so good with them.

Edited by seaninog on Wednesday 16th January 11:32

[roadsmash]

I used my Revolut card throughout Central America and overall was pleased.

[bad company]

roadsmash said:

I used my Revolut card throughout Central America and overall was pleased.

Greetings from Santiago, Chile where the card is working just fine.

[roadsmash]

bad company said:

Greetings from Santiago, Chile where the card is working just fine.

Very jealous. Amazing place.

[bloomen]

DonkeyApple said:

There’s nothing to stop you from publishing an article saying that you plan to apply for something, or even applying for it.

They’ve used the crypto market to attract a lot of consumers and have avoided what seems to be rather a lot of the basic regulatory requirements re AML etc. I’m not sure they are permitted to still offer cryptos if they have a U.K. license? I’m not even sure it’s kosher under ECB governance?

They don't sell crypto to people. You can't deposit it or withdraw it. They offer price exposure to it and that's it.

Like any internet upstart I don't see how their figures add up. At some point you have to stop burning money and start delivering and who knows how many punters they'll need to do that.

And I'll guess they package services that are actually provided by others behind the scenes. That can often go sour.

It's the type of thing I'll dip and out of but not linger.

[SGirl]

Big outage on Revolut today, apparently. People unable to make transfers or pay for stuff.

[DonkeyApple]

DonkeyApple said:

bad company said:

I wonder.

As I said I like my Revolut card, it’s handy for small purchases and overseas use. Banking license or not I would not want to putting a large sum of money into my account,

That’s my view entirely. A few hundred quid here and there would be the sane sort of activity to be using it for. It has clear benefits for minor activity but you’d have to be a bit mental to put any real money anywhere near.

This tells me everything that I need to know about the operation:

Russian billionaire Yuri Milner's DST Global led the funding round. https://www.businessinsider.com/fintech-revolut-se...

Marry that up with Bank of Lithuania’s relaxing of regulation in 2008 to rapidly attract funds and you know that it’s a world of filth they are swimming in.

More mess. My first question on this matter would be who is paying Stasys Jakeliūnas. Just because one side is hooky does not mean theother side isn’t. I know nothing of the man but usually when a politician sticks his head above the parapet like this there are some lovely holidays or school fee vouchers on offer.


https://www.businessinsider.com/fintech-unicorn-re...

[Condi]

AndrewEH1 said:

As said, Revolut is great for travelling and hassle free fx trading as you travel.

What is better about it than a Halifax credit card, which not only offer intra-bank rates when abroad, but also the protection of credit card legislation, and a month after to pay it off?

[DoubleSix]

Condi said:

AndrewEH1 said:

As said, Revolut is great for travelling and hassle free fx trading as you travel.

What is better about it than a Halifax credit card, which not only offer intra-bank rates when abroad, but also the protection of credit card legislation, and a month after to pay it off?

You can’t fix today’s rate for a future holiday with a Halifax CC.

You can’t hold, and swap between, multiple currencies with a Halifax CC.

[matrignano]

The days of the "one bank does it all" are over. Or rather, there are now so many players, new or old, that are very good at one or a few things, that to get the best overall banking service you have to diversify providers.

10 years ago I only banked with Bank A.

Now I use:
Bank A for day-to-day banking and loan products (they have my spending data which their loans algo uses to come up with decent offers/nterest ratea)
Halifax for the Clarity card (best for travelling)
Nutmeg and HL for ISAs and other investments
Coinbase for Crypto

and Revolut for the ease of managing GBP, EUR and USD accounts and pay and receive money from friends in the UK and abroad, for free, just using their mobile number.
Don't keep large amounts on Revolut.
Hardly use the debit card in the UK or abroad, Clarity offers more protection as said above, and has larger ATM withdrawal limits.

ETA: Whoever can combine the above, either as a fully captive service or even just as a Front End that brings several outside accounts together, will make a ton of money IMHO!

Edited by matrignano on Wednesday 13th February 18:41

[DonkeyApple]

I wonder if there is an appetite to do that commercially? I agree with your synopsis re how we bank today and the numerous options but I suspect that the elements that one firm applies to makenone product set cheaper and simpler are different to those required for the next set of products and the cost and regulatory requirements mean it’s not worth doing.

The branded white labels tried to do it such as Tesco’s and Virgin by branding up a range of firms’ offerings under one brand but even they had issues with the regulationnof getting them tied in under one user interface.

Firms like Revolut are the closest in terms of their range of products and their appropriateness for a younger audience but I have had direct talks with them in the last year about certain services that they wanted to add but it took some explaining that they would need to classify the same client completely differently and run suitability tests on a regular basis to the point that it was a wholly separate enterprise that had to be kept wholly separate and at that point all competitive edge is gone and they must charge more than the specialists.

What we probably have today is a selection of firms that do do pretty much everything that a certain demographic requires but as the client transitions through demographics as they age then they need to also move away from one type of provider and on to another whose range of products is aimed at the demographic you’ve moved into.

[matrignano]

Yes don’t disagree.

That’s why I think a simple front end solution that has APIs with most banks/financial start-ups could be a goer.

I gets tiring flicking through 4/5/6 apps and remembering passwords for then Touch ID fails.

Wouldn’t it be much more convenient being able to manage everything out of one app?
Then maybe having to go to the native Bank’s app for any new product or renewal, to comply with relevant regs

[DonkeyApple]

matrignano said:

Yes don’t disagree.

That’s why I think a simple front end solution that has APIs with most banks/financial start-ups could be a goer.

I gets tiring flicking through 4/5/6 apps and remembering passwords for then Touch ID fails.

Wouldn’t it be much more convenient being able to manage everything out of one app?
Then maybe having to go to the native Bank’s app for any new product or renewal, to comply with relevant regs

The short answer is that APIs simply aren’t as easy to integrate like that which is why it hasn’t been done. Different financialmindistries have different protocols and different regulatory requirements. Few clients who demand super swift interaction would then want to complete numerous different applications and be rejected from various products due to suitability etc.

This is why entities generally bundle products that use the same protocols and regulatory framework and swerve the other stuff.

And then there is the human element!!! My industry is very tech orientated but for off exchange products. We can sit down and talk to bookmakers and the gaming industry but retail banks are twenty years behind and their tech is a patchwork of bodges getting all the databases from all the banks that they’ve bought over the years to work. The best example is the retail trading front ends of high street banks. They are super clunky and a lot aren’t even fully auotomated order routing. Rarely do you find someone from that side who can follow a conversation about APIs or similar. Then there is physical FX!! That’s mostly drunken conmen from Essex who’s primary understanding of tech is the ability to get an Uber back to the wife from Rhinos.

There is no coincidence that the modern back ends that can do multiple offerings in a slick and robust manner are both built from scratch and by foreigners.

[tigerkoi]

DonkeyApple said:

matrignano said:

Yes don’t disagree.

That’s why I think a simple front end solution that has APIs with most banks/financial start-ups could be a goer.

I gets tiring flicking through 4/5/6 apps and remembering passwords for then Touch ID fails.

Wouldn’t it be much more convenient being able to manage everything out of one app?
Then maybe having to go to the native Bank’s app for any new product or renewal, to comply with relevant regs

The short answer is that APIs simply aren’t as easy to integrate like that which is why it hasn’t been done. Different financialmindistries have different protocols and different regulatory requirements. Few clients who demand super swift interaction would then want to complete numerous different applications and be rejected from various products due to suitability etc.

This is why entities generally bundle products that use the same protocols and regulatory framework and swerve the other stuff.

And then there is the human element!!! My industry is very tech orientated but for off exchange products. We can sit down and talk to bookmakers and the gaming industry but retail banks are twenty years behind and their tech is a patchwork of bodges getting all the databases from all the banks that they’ve bought over the years to work. The best example is the retail trading front ends of high street banks. They are super clunky and a lot aren’t even fully auotomated order routing. Rarely do you find someone from that side who can follow a conversation about APIs or similar. Then there is physical FX!! That’s mostly drunken conmen from Essex who’s primary understanding of tech is the ability to get an Uber back to the wife from Rhinos.

There is no coincidence that the modern back ends that can do multiple offerings in a slick and robust manner are both built from scratch and by foreigners.

Interesting post, thank you.

[Condi]

I thought the banks were supposed to be more open and more standardised to allow fintech APIs to work better? Wasnt it a new directive recently?

[tigerkoi]

Condi said:

I thought the banks were supposed to be more open and more standardised to allow fintech APIs to work better? Wasnt it a new directive recently?

On your first question, partially. I mean, it isn’t a question about banks per se becoming standardised to allow some random organisation ability to lift off. “Hey, we’ve got a business beholden to shareholders to run here too you know!”

Banks have worked to adhere to the directives, but there’s lots of reasons why it’s sometimes not just a complex endeavour but also one of positioning & strategy.

The article below has an American focus, but many of the points still ring true across European banking too.

https://www.americanbanker.com/list/why-do-most-us...

I could go further into it if that doesn’t cover it. But in essence, it’s a complicated landscape of...the maturity of the CDO role and their impact in large banks, data sets across multiple product lines that are handled by a multitude of teams that historically have worked in silos, competing ventures and fintech curating by the banks themselves, compliance leaps, issues around demarcation, competition, etc...

Edited by tigerkoi on Wednesday 13th February 22:50

[DonkeyApple]

Condi said:

I thought the banks were supposed to be more open and more standardised to allow fintech APIs to work better? Wasnt it a new directive recently?

Maybe but you’ll be turning a slow ship around. Back in 2014 I gave up on a project to deliver a front end that allowed easy retail order routing to multiple destinations. It cost me over a million and the fundamental issue was connecting to clearer’s APIs. Endless meetings with chaps who didn’t know how their APIs worked or how to connect to third parties. Asia and the US were streets ahead as was Eastern Europe. It’s why so many of these new operations have gained traction as they emanate from areas with frankly, clearer and more free thinking.

But, they have also achieved traction by operating around low regulation products or to be honest, running a weaker interpretation of say AML, KYC or suitability than a big, U.K. regulated institution could ever do. A firm like Revolut is now going through a hard transition as they seek to, for want or a more appropriate term, legitimise and mainstream their operation. As these firms pass down this route it is inevitable that their cost to client increases as a result.

[Kev_Mk3]

Glad I was looking for information on Revolut. I have a account with them and wanted to send funds to my brother in Australia. The amount I wanted to send they wont allow so sent it via my bank. He lost out on near 300 AUD but I didnt feel comfortable sending it via them. I will stick to using it for small amounts when i am in Europe.