Hargreaves Lansdown - any better alternatives
Discussion
so i'm about 85% through the "How To Own The World" book now and things are coming together in my brain nicely now. For those who haven't read it and are interested in starting to sort your retirement out I can't recommend it enough i'm 28, have been putting into my companies pensions since i started work after uni but had no idea what it was doing and thought it would be enough, until I started reading a few threads on here and people recommending the book to others. I started to read the book and feel more confident now investing myself and securing a better retirement. https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07K26PVDR/ref=dp-kind...
I would like to manage my ISA myself for now and have read a few sites about different providers and feel at the minute HL seems to be the best one for me right now just starting out but I did just want to quantify it. I am going to start to look at funds rather than shares to build my confidence and start with about £100 DD each month going in. With a baby on the way money is going to be tight but need to start and feel this is the most I can afford now
Do any of you use any other SIPP / ISA providers? HL are currently charging 0.45% yearly which isn't bad for what i'm putting in at the minute but would be interested if there is better out there with the same level of ease?
I would like to manage my ISA myself for now and have read a few sites about different providers and feel at the minute HL seems to be the best one for me right now just starting out but I did just want to quantify it. I am going to start to look at funds rather than shares to build my confidence and start with about £100 DD each month going in. With a baby on the way money is going to be tight but need to start and feel this is the most I can afford now
Do any of you use any other SIPP / ISA providers? HL are currently charging 0.45% yearly which isn't bad for what i'm putting in at the minute but would be interested if there is better out there with the same level of ease?
Edited by richatnort on Monday 25th February 10:39
I've not looked in a while re pricing, but I am with Interactive Investor and similarly drip feeding monthly into a range of funds. they charge £1 a fund, plus a low dealing fee (if you buy on particular days of the month which you can do automatically).
With only £100/month available at this point in time you need to be extra sensitive to the overall costs, but somewhere like MoneySavingExpert might be good for comparing the prices of the various options available.
With only £100/month available at this point in time you need to be extra sensitive to the overall costs, but somewhere like MoneySavingExpert might be good for comparing the prices of the various options available.
Have a read through the Intelligent Money thread. You will pick up useful information whether or not you are tempted by their service. They appear to offer low cost entry for PHers. I have no involvement with or personal knowledge of IM.
IMO if you can get your total annual costs (that's both fund charges and platform fees added together) under 1% you'll be heading in the right direction as a smaller investor. As you have identified, make best use of the tax advantages of SIPP (especially if 40% taxpayer) and ISA. Might be worth thinking about a 50/50 split if you want to back both horses - i.e. some max' tax relief and some ease of access.
Make sure you keep the costs down. A very low cost approach is possible with rock bottom platform fees and very low index fund charges. The level of "service" is likely to vary accordingly.
IMO if you can get your total annual costs (that's both fund charges and platform fees added together) under 1% you'll be heading in the right direction as a smaller investor. As you have identified, make best use of the tax advantages of SIPP (especially if 40% taxpayer) and ISA. Might be worth thinking about a 50/50 split if you want to back both horses - i.e. some max' tax relief and some ease of access.
Make sure you keep the costs down. A very low cost approach is possible with rock bottom platform fees and very low index fund charges. The level of "service" is likely to vary accordingly.
rockin said:
Have a read through the Intelligent Money thread. You will pick up useful information whether or not you are tempted by their service. They appear to offer low cost entry for PHers. I have no involvement with or personal knowledge of IM.
IMO if you can get your total annual costs (that's both fund charges and platform fees added together) under 1% you'll be heading in the right direction as a smaller investor. As you have identified, make best use of the tax advantages of SIPP (especially if 40% taxpayer) and ISA. Might be worth thinking about a 50/50 split if you want to back both horses - i.e. some max' tax relief and some ease of access.
Make sure you keep the costs down. A very low cost approach is possible with rock bottom platform fees and very low index fund charges. The level of "service" is likely to vary accordingly.
Good advice Steve and thanks for the Intelligent Money thread recommendation (you're still a cheeky sod though IMO if you can get your total annual costs (that's both fund charges and platform fees added together) under 1% you'll be heading in the right direction as a smaller investor. As you have identified, make best use of the tax advantages of SIPP (especially if 40% taxpayer) and ISA. Might be worth thinking about a 50/50 split if you want to back both horses - i.e. some max' tax relief and some ease of access.
Make sure you keep the costs down. A very low cost approach is possible with rock bottom platform fees and very low index fund charges. The level of "service" is likely to vary accordingly.
)OP - HL have great service but are a bit pricey, Interactive Investor and Fidelity do the same thing for less. If you want low cost passive trackers in an ISA you could go directly to Vanguard.
IM offers fully managed portfolios for ISAs and Pensions/SIPPs rather than you picking the funds yourself. It is my investment manager and PHers get the initial charge and minimum £100,000 investment restriction remove, leaving just a 0.87% annual charge inclusive of everything.
If you want to pick and manage your own funds it is not for you, but if you want them managed for you it is something to consider.
As Steve says above, there is quite a bit of useful information on the thread regardless of which route you decide to take.
richatnort said:
Do any of you use any other SIPP / ISA providers? HL are currently charging 0.45% yearly which isn't bad for what i'm putting in at the minute but would be interested if there is better out there with the same level of ease?
Remember that if you're saving for retirement then LISA or Pension tax breaks are potentially very advantageous.This is the list of providers I've used in the past:https://monevator.com/compare-uk-cheapest-online-brokers/
look in the comments for any number of perspectives on the various companies and their relative merits.
What re you looking for with "ease" - you pick a security, pick a quantity and hit buy, or something else?
richatnort said:
I would like to manage my ISA myself for now and have read a few sites about different providers and feel at the minute HL seems to be the best one for me right now just starting out but I did just want to quantify it. I am going to start to look at funds rather than shares to build my confidence and start with about £100 DD each month going in. With a baby on the way money is going to be tight but need to start and feel this is the most I can afford now
Do any of you use any other SIPP / ISA providers? HL are currently charging 0.45% yearly which isn't bad for what i'm putting in at the minute but would be interested if there is better out there with the same level of ease?
OP: as has been said the HL service is good but it is quite expensive as you'll be paying fund fees on top of the 0.45% platform fee. It's very easy to end up paying well over 1% in total. Vanguard charge 0.15% for their passive trackers & there are a range to choose from if you feel passive tracking might be appropriate to start out with.Do any of you use any other SIPP / ISA providers? HL are currently charging 0.45% yearly which isn't bad for what i'm putting in at the minute but would be interested if there is better out there with the same level of ease?
Is there a particular reason you want to select your own funds at this point, given that you are just starting out? Why do you think you will be good at selecting which funds to buy & when to sell?
HL have a feature called Watchlists where you can set up your fantasy inverstment collection & see how it performs over time, although you'll have to guess on the charges to get actual performance. That might give you a clue as to how well you are picking funds without committng real money. If you do invest via HL be slightly careful about the funds HL promote or put in the Wealth 50 as there have been some right duds in the past.
Mr Pointy said:
if you feel passive tracking might be appropriate to start out with.
What might you switch to once you gained more experience?Mr Pointy said:
Why do you think you will be good at selecting which funds to buy & when to sell?
That's a question to ask everyone, not just beginners.Mr Pointy said:
That might give you a clue as to how well you are picking funds without committng real money.
You'd have to do a lot more analysis than this to determine how well (or not) you were doingII are a good platform but you'll be paying a **lot** in fees if you're only putting in £100 month (no offence intended).
HL are excellent but have a reputation for being pricey, though they have a cap on shares/ETFs/investment trusts which is very reasonably.
Try these:
http://www.comparefundplatforms.com/
https://monevator.com/compare-the-brokers/
HL are excellent but have a reputation for being pricey, though they have a cap on shares/ETFs/investment trusts which is very reasonably.
Try these:
http://www.comparefundplatforms.com/
https://monevator.com/compare-the-brokers/
Thanks for all the comments so far and sorry for the late reply it's much easier to reply on my work 2 screens than my laptop.
I will look at some of these different platforms you have suggested so far. Cost is as you can imagine have something to play in it, I have calculated HL is around 1.45% yearly from both HL themselves but also the funds price too. My only concern is that what if i move platform will it not be better to go with someone like HL now, take the hit with the cost but when more funds come up it's less expensive?
I guess why I want to choose my own funds is just purely so that I keep on top of it, research & learn more than i would if i went with a more managed platform. Plus from what I read from the book they suggest trying to do it yourself too.
As for picking funds at the moment i've been looking at websites such as trustnet to look at performance and also crown fund ratings to look at fund managers, then putting their previous performance but also making sure i'm spread over 4 funds such as 2 high risk, 1 low risk in bonds and a middle ground one. Obviously I have to do the calculations i've learnt from the book against each of these funds. I also guess i'm not discounting a managed ISA but just wonder how much real performance I can expect from them.
I will look at some of these different platforms you have suggested so far. Cost is as you can imagine have something to play in it, I have calculated HL is around 1.45% yearly from both HL themselves but also the funds price too. My only concern is that what if i move platform will it not be better to go with someone like HL now, take the hit with the cost but when more funds come up it's less expensive?
I guess why I want to choose my own funds is just purely so that I keep on top of it, research & learn more than i would if i went with a more managed platform. Plus from what I read from the book they suggest trying to do it yourself too.
As for picking funds at the moment i've been looking at websites such as trustnet to look at performance and also crown fund ratings to look at fund managers, then putting their previous performance but also making sure i'm spread over 4 funds such as 2 high risk, 1 low risk in bonds and a middle ground one. Obviously I have to do the calculations i've learnt from the book against each of these funds. I also guess i'm not discounting a managed ISA but just wonder how much real performance I can expect from them.
richatnort said:
My only concern is that what if i move platform will it not be better to go with someone like HL now, take the hit with the cost but when more funds come up it's less expensive?
I'm not understanding what you're getting at here?richatnort said:
making sure i'm spread over 4 funds such as 2 high risk, 1 low risk in bonds and a middle ground one.
for me, my bond/equities ratio is driven entirely by how long the investment is for - what exactly are you trying to achieve here? For that matter, how long are you investing for?xeny said:
richatnort said:
My only concern is that what if i move platform will it not be better to go with someone like HL now, take the hit with the cost but when more funds come up it's less expensive?
I'm not understanding what you're getting at here?richatnort said:
making sure i'm spread over 4 funds such as 2 high risk, 1 low risk in bonds and a middle ground one.
for me, my bond/equities ratio is driven entirely by how long the investment is for - what exactly are you trying to achieve here? For that matter, how long are you investing for?Second point i agree with this will most certainly be a long investment I am trying to make my money work better for me and give me a better life in later years either 50's+
richatnort said:
As for picking funds at the moment i've been looking at websites such as trustnet to look at performance and also crown fund ratings to look at fund managers, then putting their previous performance
Based on all the evidence this will lead to a sub-optimal outcome.This may be worth a read
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Smarter-Investing-3rd-edn...
richatnort said:
.... if I have a big pot in later years will I be charged for moving my money elsewhere....
???? Never heard of that. Don't forget that if you pay 1% more then you need to pay every year for a decade you'll have "wasted" more then 10% of your pot already. Get those charges down and keep 'em down - while remembering that decent service and decent advice, if wanted, don't come for free.
rockin said:
Don't forget that if you pay 1% more then you need to pay every year for a decade you'll have "wasted" more then 10% of your pot already. Get those charges down and keep 'em down - while remembering that decent service and decent advice, if wanted, don't come for free.
Steve is spot on once again with this.For example (and I am not suggesting you use IM here), over 25 years of saving a flat £100 a month (and assuming 7% average annual returns before charges) then the difference alone between IM's 0.87% and HL's 1.45% (that you put forward) would eat up 5 year's worth of contributions.
Don't underestimate the impact of charges on smaller sums.
JulianPH said:
Steve is spot on once again with this.
For example (and I am not suggesting you use IM here), over 25 years of saving a flat £100 a month (and assuming 7% average annual returns before charges) then the difference alone between IM's 0.87% and HL's 1.45% (that you put forward) would eat up 5 year's worth of contributions.
Don't underestimate the impact of charges on smaller sums.
Quite staggering, when you put it in those relatable terms.For example (and I am not suggesting you use IM here), over 25 years of saving a flat £100 a month (and assuming 7% average annual returns before charges) then the difference alone between IM's 0.87% and HL's 1.45% (that you put forward) would eat up 5 year's worth of contributions.
Don't underestimate the impact of charges on smaller sums.
Testaburger said:
JulianPH said:
Steve is spot on once again with this.
For example (and I am not suggesting you use IM here), over 25 years of saving a flat £100 a month (and assuming 7% average annual returns before charges) then the difference alone between IM's 0.87% and HL's 1.45% (that you put forward) would eat up 5 year's worth of contributions.
Don't underestimate the impact of charges on smaller sums.
Quite staggering, when you put it in those relatable terms.For example (and I am not suggesting you use IM here), over 25 years of saving a flat £100 a month (and assuming 7% average annual returns before charges) then the difference alone between IM's 0.87% and HL's 1.45% (that you put forward) would eat up 5 year's worth of contributions.
Don't underestimate the impact of charges on smaller sums.
) of paying more than this. As Bogle once said, "You get what you don't pay for".I'm going to go against the grain here - I use hargreaves lansdown.
I find the website easy to use, the app is quite good. I have not used any of the other providers so i can't really comment on them.
I also have the active savings with Hargreaves Lansdown, as banking is moving more online, competition heating up on interest rates etc, I find the active savings thing quite useful, I know I can earn more interest by going to the bank direct (as hargreaves landsown get a small cut), but I can't be arsed with a million and 1 different log ins for this bank and that bank. Mainly I have had 6 month to 1 year fixed interest bonds.
I have done the investments into funds myself, I'm not pretending to be a expert fund selector, but I have done ok, I have a mixture of shares and funds in a isa,
I find the website easy to use, the app is quite good. I have not used any of the other providers so i can't really comment on them.
I also have the active savings with Hargreaves Lansdown, as banking is moving more online, competition heating up on interest rates etc, I find the active savings thing quite useful, I know I can earn more interest by going to the bank direct (as hargreaves landsown get a small cut), but I can't be arsed with a million and 1 different log ins for this bank and that bank. Mainly I have had 6 month to 1 year fixed interest bonds.
I have done the investments into funds myself, I'm not pretending to be a expert fund selector, but I have done ok, I have a mixture of shares and funds in a isa,
gazza5 said:
I'm going to go against the grain here - I use hargreaves lansdown.
I find the website easy to use, the app is quite good. I have not used any of the other providers so i can't really comment on them.
I also have the active savings with Hargreaves Lansdown, as banking is moving more online, competition heating up on interest rates etc, I find the active savings thing quite useful, I know I can earn more interest by going to the bank direct (as hargreaves landsown get a small cut), but I can't be arsed with a million and 1 different log ins for this bank and that bank. Mainly I have had 6 month to 1 year fixed interest bonds.
I have done the investments into funds myself, I'm not pretending to be a expert fund selector, but I have done ok, I have a mixture of shares and funds in a isa,
I'm not knocking HL - I was with them for a long time - but you do need to recognise the impact their level of charges has on your funds over a long period of time as it's can be very considerable.I find the website easy to use, the app is quite good. I have not used any of the other providers so i can't really comment on them.
I also have the active savings with Hargreaves Lansdown, as banking is moving more online, competition heating up on interest rates etc, I find the active savings thing quite useful, I know I can earn more interest by going to the bank direct (as hargreaves landsown get a small cut), but I can't be arsed with a million and 1 different log ins for this bank and that bank. Mainly I have had 6 month to 1 year fixed interest bonds.
I have done the investments into funds myself, I'm not pretending to be a expert fund selector, but I have done ok, I have a mixture of shares and funds in a isa,
You say you have done ok, but how have you done compared to a simple tracker, for instance? It's not easy to find out & it's too easy to think that just because you have more money now than when you started that you've been successful when in fact you have actually done rather poorly.
I second the recommendation to read Tim Hale's book, Smarter Investing. It's a good guide to passive investing and the reasons to choose trackers.
I have been using A J Bell for several years now and recommend them. Looking at the Monevator comparison tool above, AJB seem to be very competitive, although I don't pay any contributions now, I leave the funds in a few trackers. I have a SIPP, an ISA and a trading account. I try not to look at them too often, but intend to leave them alone for the medium term if I can.
I have been using A J Bell for several years now and recommend them. Looking at the Monevator comparison tool above, AJB seem to be very competitive, although I don't pay any contributions now, I leave the funds in a few trackers. I have a SIPP, an ISA and a trading account. I try not to look at them too often, but intend to leave them alone for the medium term if I can.
I'm not knocking HL - I was with them for a long time - but you do need to recognise the impact their level of charges has on your funds over a long period of time as it's can be very considerable.
You say you have done ok, but how have you done compared to a simple tracker, for instance? It's not easy to find out & it's too easy to think that just because you have more money now than when you started that you've been successful when in fact you have actually done rather poorly.
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I'm not sure if Fidelity has changed, but when I looked a while back there charges were not much different to HL, I had very low cash when starting out, deposited £1k and then have done it monthly ever since.
Not sure if this is the case, but with HL I put £25 per month into 8 different funds (saving £200 per month), with fidelity I think the lower limit was £50 per fund when I first started (again not sure of this is still the case).
As the stocks and shares has a mixture of both, for example bought superdry at 1300p when they slipped from 1800p, now they are 550p ish so that makes my isa look worse.
But in terms of funds I have held these for 3 years, I appreciate the markets have been very kind over the last 3 years and I have been drip feeding £25 a month. here at today is the gain:
LF Lindsell Train UK Equity 32.16% gain (do £25 per month)
Aberdeen Latin America 14.60% gain (do £25 per month)
Fidelity Index US 30.39% gain (do £25 per month)
HL Multi Manager European 17.35% (do £25 per month)
HSBC FTSE 250 Index 18.48% do £25 per month)
HSBC FTSE ALL share index 25.01% (switched from all share to Ftse 250)
Jupiter Asian Income 10.50% (do £25 per month)
Legal & Gen US Index 16.39%
Lindsell Train Global Equity 48.63% (do £25 per month)
Stewart Investors Asia Pacific 14.23%
Threadneedle UK Equity 25.54%
Losses
Vanguard FTSE Global All Cap -0.06% (do £25 per month)
EdenTree Higher Income Fund -2.08%
Jupiter Global Value Equity -4.49%
I'm sure there are trackers out there that have done better than my performance over the same time, I don't have much exposure to Small caps for example, no exposure to metals in terms of gold etc which I think I should have some exposure to. Also not enough exposure to Emerging markets, I feel I need to get rid of some of my weighting to the FTSE and UK.
I did have about 20 funds at one point, but have been moving money around, I still have too many really of funds which are similar, its a work in progress.
You say you have done ok, but how have you done compared to a simple tracker, for instance? It's not easy to find out & it's too easy to think that just because you have more money now than when you started that you've been successful when in fact you have actually done rather poorly.
[/quote]
I'm not sure if Fidelity has changed, but when I looked a while back there charges were not much different to HL, I had very low cash when starting out, deposited £1k and then have done it monthly ever since.
Not sure if this is the case, but with HL I put £25 per month into 8 different funds (saving £200 per month), with fidelity I think the lower limit was £50 per fund when I first started (again not sure of this is still the case).
As the stocks and shares has a mixture of both, for example bought superdry at 1300p when they slipped from 1800p, now they are 550p ish so that makes my isa look worse.
But in terms of funds I have held these for 3 years, I appreciate the markets have been very kind over the last 3 years and I have been drip feeding £25 a month. here at today is the gain:
LF Lindsell Train UK Equity 32.16% gain (do £25 per month)
Aberdeen Latin America 14.60% gain (do £25 per month)
Fidelity Index US 30.39% gain (do £25 per month)
HL Multi Manager European 17.35% (do £25 per month)
HSBC FTSE 250 Index 18.48% do £25 per month)
HSBC FTSE ALL share index 25.01% (switched from all share to Ftse 250)
Jupiter Asian Income 10.50% (do £25 per month)
Legal & Gen US Index 16.39%
Lindsell Train Global Equity 48.63% (do £25 per month)
Stewart Investors Asia Pacific 14.23%
Threadneedle UK Equity 25.54%
Losses
Vanguard FTSE Global All Cap -0.06% (do £25 per month)
EdenTree Higher Income Fund -2.08%
Jupiter Global Value Equity -4.49%
I'm sure there are trackers out there that have done better than my performance over the same time, I don't have much exposure to Small caps for example, no exposure to metals in terms of gold etc which I think I should have some exposure to. Also not enough exposure to Emerging markets, I feel I need to get rid of some of my weighting to the FTSE and UK.
I did have about 20 funds at one point, but have been moving money around, I still have too many really of funds which are similar, its a work in progress.
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