Mum's home, not to give it to equity release or a care home.
Discussion
WinstonWolf said:
Oakey said:
Here's a novel idea, instead of accruing masses of wealth to leave to the 'kids' when they die (who, by the way, are most likely to be nearing pensionable age themselves by this point) and worrying constantly they're going to lose it all to the state to pay for their care, perhaps more people could actually help their kids and grandkids when it actually matters earlier in life? You know, instead of letting them struggle trying to scrape together deposits for a mortgage on a house that keeps increasing in price every time they get that bit closer to saving their 10% / 15% / 20% or whatever.
All these people who talk about not wanting their kids to struggle like they did yet their solution to this is to leave them a pot of cash at a stage in life that it most likely matters the least. It's bonkers.
So sell your house and move into rented accommodation? Genius!All these people who talk about not wanting their kids to struggle like they did yet their solution to this is to leave them a pot of cash at a stage in life that it most likely matters the least. It's bonkers.
The whole thing has become politicised, i.e. Boomers are evil,etc, - the NHS should be free at the point of use, if we didn't waste so much it could be sensibly funded. A lot of the problems CAN be traced back to new lab. Free care in Scotland, plus tuition fees. Massive PPI costs for white elephant vanity buildings with onerous locked in maintenance contracts. Working tax credits, distorting the jobs market and allowing big business subsidised labour costs. This has essentially stolen our ability to fund services.
Integroo said:
WinstonWolf said:
And one day you'll have a family and a home that you've paid every penny of tax due on and your opinion will change.
No, it won't. My politics are not based on my own selfish desires. Oh, and no tax is paid on massive increases in wealth caused by house price inflation, which so many of the current senior generation have benefited from.
markcoznottz said:
Not easy to ask someone to move out of a home that may have been in the family generations. It's very easy to be dispassionate about others 'wealth'. If the equity is tied up in bricks and mortar then it's not easy to release, and quite often grandparents give everything they have and more to help thier families. Unless they use equity release, and not many older people necessarily want to extend thier mortgage or enter into settlement on sale of property etc. Outside of the south east the picture is less clear re property prices.
The whole thing has become politicised, i.e. Boomers are evil,etc, - the NHS should be free at the point of use, if we didn't waste so much it could be sensibly funded. A lot of the problems CAN be traced back to new lab. Free care in Scotland, plus tuition fees. Massive PPI costs for white elephant vanity buildings with onerous locked in maintenance contracts. Working tax credits, distorting the jobs market and allowing big business subsidised labour costs. This has essentially stolen our ability to fund services.
I wasn't suggesting anyone sells their home they live in, only that they sell their home they no longer live in as they are in careThe whole thing has become politicised, i.e. Boomers are evil,etc, - the NHS should be free at the point of use, if we didn't waste so much it could be sensibly funded. A lot of the problems CAN be traced back to new lab. Free care in Scotland, plus tuition fees. Massive PPI costs for white elephant vanity buildings with onerous locked in maintenance contracts. Working tax credits, distorting the jobs market and allowing big business subsidised labour costs. This has essentially stolen our ability to fund services.
We can't afford to fund our services because of our growing and aging population. It's simply false to blame this on New Labour.
Oh and you want students to pay tuition fees at the start of their career and get into huge debt to protect the wealth of those who are retired? Your priorities are all wrong.
The Leaper said:
Because cancer needs treatment paid whereas dementia needs care: that's the basis of successive governments' and local councils stated position.
R.
Not as clear cut as that. The NHS will fund for a care home if an assessment shows it is necessary. Very stringent criteria but if you are violent, severely incontinent, cant walk and suffer from psychotic episodes you stand a good chance of the NHS ponying up.R.
Integroo said:
WinstonWolf said:
And one day you'll have a family and a home that you've paid every penny of tax due on and your opinion will change.
No, it won't. My politics are not based on my own selfish desires. Oh, and no tax is paid on massive increases in wealth caused by house price inflation, which so many of the current senior generation have benefited from.
WinstonWolf said:
I'm afraid it will. Right now it's a win-win for you, currently it doesn't affect you and forcing other people to sell their homes saves you tax and NI, you'd be mental to be in favour of it *at the moment*.
You can assert what you want, but it is merely deflection. In any event I am in favour of increasing personal taxation, including on myself, in order to better fund public services.
Oakey said:
WinstonWolf said:
So sell your house and move into rented accommodation? Genius!
Is the only wealth you've accumulated your entire working life your house? My apologies, I thought your generation worked so much that you'd be going to sleep on a mattress stuffed with £50's. But no, selling your house and renting isn't the only option, there's always downsizing.
But you have to give money away when you're alive and still potentially need it. When you're dead you won't need it...WinstonWolf said:
Integroo said:
WinstonWolf said:
And one day you'll have a family and a home that you've paid every penny of tax due on and your opinion will change.
No, it won't. My politics are not based on my own selfish desires. Oh, and no tax is paid on massive increases in wealth caused by house price inflation, which so many of the current senior generation have benefited from.
SpeckledJim said:
WinstonWolf said:
Integroo said:
WinstonWolf said:
And one day you'll have a family and a home that you've paid every penny of tax due on and your opinion will change.
No, it won't. My politics are not based on my own selfish desires. Oh, and no tax is paid on massive increases in wealth caused by house price inflation, which so many of the current senior generation have benefited from.
WinstonWolf said:
SpeckledJim said:
WinstonWolf said:
Integroo said:
WinstonWolf said:
And one day you'll have a family and a home that you've paid every penny of tax due on and your opinion will change.
No, it won't. My politics are not based on my own selfish desires. Oh, and no tax is paid on massive increases in wealth caused by house price inflation, which so many of the current senior generation have benefited from.
But calling it a home when they don't live there any more, and never will again, is sophistry.
It's a house, not a home.
It's a very valuable yet completely useless asset at a time when they're burning through an awful lot of somebody's cash.
SpeckledJim said:
WinstonWolf said:
SpeckledJim said:
WinstonWolf said:
Integroo said:
WinstonWolf said:
And one day you'll have a family and a home that you've paid every penny of tax due on and your opinion will change.
No, it won't. My politics are not based on my own selfish desires. Oh, and no tax is paid on massive increases in wealth caused by house price inflation, which so many of the current senior generation have benefited from.
But calling it a home when they don't live there any more, and never will again, is sophistry.
It's a house, not a home.
It's a very valuable yet completely useless asset at a time when they're burning through an awful lot of somebody's cash.
Integroo said:
markcoznottz said:
Not easy to ask someone to move out of a home that may have been in the family generations. It's very easy to be dispassionate about others 'wealth'. If the equity is tied up in bricks and mortar then it's not easy to release, and quite often grandparents give everything they have and more to help thier families. Unless they use equity release, and not many older people necessarily want to extend thier mortgage or enter into settlement on sale of property etc. Outside of the south east the picture is less clear re property prices.
The whole thing has become politicised, i.e. Boomers are evil,etc, - the NHS should be free at the point of use, if we didn't waste so much it could be sensibly funded. A lot of the problems CAN be traced back to new lab. Free care in Scotland, plus tuition fees. Massive PPI costs for white elephant vanity buildings with onerous locked in maintenance contracts. Working tax credits, distorting the jobs market and allowing big business subsidised labour costs. This has essentially stolen our ability to fund services.
I wasn't suggesting anyone sells their home they live in, only that they sell their home they no longer live in as they are in careThe whole thing has become politicised, i.e. Boomers are evil,etc, - the NHS should be free at the point of use, if we didn't waste so much it could be sensibly funded. A lot of the problems CAN be traced back to new lab. Free care in Scotland, plus tuition fees. Massive PPI costs for white elephant vanity buildings with onerous locked in maintenance contracts. Working tax credits, distorting the jobs market and allowing big business subsidised labour costs. This has essentially stolen our ability to fund services.
We can't afford to fund our services because of our growing and aging population. It's simply false to blame this on New Labour.
Oh and you want students to pay tuition fees at the start of their career and get into huge debt to protect the wealth of those who are retired? Your priorities are all wrong.
k everyone else I'm ok jack. WinstonWolf said:
But it's been fully paid for and all taxes have been paid etc? The *somebody else's cash* it the cash we all pay in through NI when we're working.
You don't quite appreciate the fact that all this NI you've paid is the tip of the iceberg in terms of the amount of money that is required. It isn't enough. You don't earn a right to care by paying NI - it is a tax, not a savings account. Integroo said:
WinstonWolf said:
But it's been fully paid for and all taxes have been paid etc? The *somebody else's cash* it the cash we all pay in through NI when we're working.
You don't quite appreciate the fact that all this NI you've paid is the tip of the iceberg in terms of the amount of money that is required. It isn't enough. You don't earn a right to care by paying NI - it is a tax, not a savings account. The solution to the dementia timebomb isn't a popular one, without a treatment or cure available I'd be in favour of euthanasia subject to a huge array of checks and balances so people are protected from any external influences. When the time has come people should have a dignified end, not be kept alive because we can.
WinstonWolf said:
Ah, so your motivation is keeping your own taxation lower, finally we're getting there. You're not so altruistic after all
No, it isn't. Stop misrepresenting me, it doesn't make your own arguments more persuasive. I won't deny that I am not fond of my tax being spent on paying for the care of the wealthy in order to protect their children's inheritance. There are many things that are severely underfunded where money could be much better spent.
Integroo said:
WinstonWolf said:
Ah, so your motivation is keeping your own taxation lower, finally we're getting there. You're not so altruistic after all
No, it isn't. Stop misrepresenting me, it doesn't make your own arguments more persuasive. I won't deny that I am not fond of my tax being spent on paying for the care of the wealthy in order to protect their children's inheritance. There are many things that are severely underfunded where money could be much better spent.
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