State Pension potential shortfall warning

[tighnamara]

LeadFarmer said:

They are from discussions on other forums, just like this one. I'm not posting links to the forum posts as some of them were PM's and I believe it is in bad taste to make a private massage public without their consent. The subject interests me as I will soon be retiring at 55 and so I want to make sure I'm aware.

I am getting more confused by the minute, why if you are interested in the subject and are retiring soon have you not called HMRC for clarity for your own pension / financial planning

Not doubting what you are saying and think it’s great you have brought up the subject but can see why some have taken umbrage as it was more of a statement of fact than a question in your first post.

Will be interesting to see what the feedback is from those who have the discussion with HMRC

Thanks

[TwigtheWonderkid]

jsf said:

TwigtheWonderkid said:

I'll await your findings. If true, I'm in the exact position the OP is warning against. Aged 57, working for 40 yrs, website says I get £168.60 in 10 year time, at 67. I assumed that if I stopped work tomorrow, I'd still get my full state pension at 67, having done over 35 years. I will definitely be stopping long before 67, maybe 60. I need to know if I'm going to get the full state pension, or is that estimate based on the assumption I work until 67, regardless of having already done 35 years +?

I wouldn't be surprised if the OP is right. Being lied to or mislead by the govt is nothing knew. If they'd had the internet when I started work, it would have confidently told be that I'd get a state pension at 65, and my wife at 60.

If you read what it says on the screen next to your prediction, it states under current law.

It also says "forecast" (a posh guess) and "this is not a guarantee" (if we've got it wrong, our arses are covered so stop bleating).

[x5x3]

thanks PH - I'm more confused than ever......

[Fastpedeller]

LeadFarmer said:

Theres nothing more that I can say. It's like puling teeth.

To anyone who is in two minds, ring them. Dont just ask them if the forecaster is correct, ask them about retiring early and not paying any further NI

Edited by LeadFarmer on Friday 3rd January 18:03

It's all very well saying 'call them', but with respect how would that help? I'd then just have a verbal statement which may be correct (or not). I'd like something in writing (print) so that I can quote it later if the situation is changed to my detriment, despite my best efforts.

[i4got]

LeadFarmer said:

Theres nothing more that I can say. It's like puling teeth.

To anyone who is in two minds, ring them. Dont just ask them if the forecaster is correct, ask them about retiring early and not paying any further NI

i4got said:

I 'retired' at 54 - living on savings etc until pensions etc kick in. I have more than 35 years contributions and haven't contributed in the 3 years since I 'retired'. On line is showing full £168 with no extra contributions required.

I rang HMRC and they said I didn't need to continue to pay,

My quote is from page 1 of this thread.

[croyde]

So I had a look on the government gateway page and it says I'll get the full £168 a week if I continue paying NI for another 4 years, so that's ok.

Then it says I have a COPE of £17.00 on top thanks to contracting out at some point.

So does this mean that all is fine and I don't have to try and chase up those little amounts from 3 jobs I had in the early 90s for no more than 2 years in total?

Sorry if I am being dumb.

[33q]

croyde said:

So I had a look on the government gateway page and it says I'll get the full £168 a week if I continue paying NI for another 4 years, so that's ok.

Then it says I have a COPE of £17.00 on top thanks to contracting out at some point.

So does this mean that all is fine and I don't have to try and chase up those little amounts from 3 jobs I had in the early 90s for no more than 2 years in total?

Sorry if I am being dumb.

The COPE amount is paid within your company pension....it may not be separately identified....just lumped in as part of the monthly payment

[anonymous-user]

croyde said:

So I had a look on the government gateway page and it says I'll get the full £168 a week if I continue paying NI for another 4 years, so that's ok.

Then it says I have a COPE of £17.00 on top thanks to contracting out at some point.

So does this mean that all is fine and I don't have to try and chase up those little amounts from 3 jobs I had in the early 90s for no more than 2 years in total?

Sorry if I am being dumb.

You should chase those up as you may have funds in there additional to the SERPS element.

You may find you can improve the value by shifting them to lower charges policies.

[croyde]

Cheers all

[markymarkthree]

LeadFarmer said:

markymarkthree said:

I feel I must thank Mr Leadfarmer.
I retired a couple of years ago at 59 (now 63) and have always assumed I would get gov pension of £155.50 at 67. I have just done gov gateway thingy and have discovered that I will get my £168.60 pension at 66, a year earlier than expected.

mark, as you are getting close to your state retirement age, and if you haven't been paying NI since retiring, please phone the helpline number I've posted and ask them about any shortfall through not paying NI. I hope you're ok, but for the sake of a few minutes on the phone please ring them and don't simps accept what the gateway thingy says.

0800 731 0181 have your NI number to hand
8am - 6pm Mon - Fri

Thanks for that number, which is the number on the relevant Gov page.
I shall give them a call on Monday and report back.

[markymarkthree]

Sheepshanks said:

My state pension age is 66, and I'll hit that in 2023.

The forecast up to Apr 19 is £152/wk and it says I need to keep contributing and that if I contribute another 4yrs I'll hit £168.

It notes I was contracted out, and my COPE estimate is £113/wk.

My contribution record says I have 46yrs of full contributions.

What I don't know is how many years I was contracted out. I assume from 46+4-35 that it must have been 15 yrs, which is feasible - the current scheme I'm in, which I joined about 20yrs ago, has never been contracted out.


My wife is a couple of years behind me, yet her forecast says she's reached the max already. What seems odd about this is that for a good 20 years she was a Civil Servant (a small part of it in the Contributions Agency!) and she is convinced she was contracted out. If that's true there's no way she should have enough years. She does have a COPE amount shown of £9!

Edited by Sheepshanks on Friday 3rd January 22:32

I guess you are the same as me born in 1957.
I have the same as you, re 46 years of contributions. Which doesn't add up as I started work at 15/16 and retired at 59 (43 years) or am I using Abbott maths.

[Kinky]

markymarkthree said:

I have the same as you, re 46 years of contributions. Which doesn't add up as I started work at 15/16 and retired at 59 (43 years) or am I using Abbott maths.

Mine is similar, in that it says I've got 34 years of contributions, but when looking at the details behind it only shows 31 years (up to last year). I've still got 15 years to go before I receive the state pension! I'm confused, but not overly worried as I'll have made the 35 years of contributions between now and then (and considering that this year will also be another one notched up come April.

[Sheepshanks]

markymarkthree said:

I guess you are the same as me born in 1957.
I have the same as you, re 46 years of contributions. Which doesn't add up as I started work at 15/16 and retired at 59 (43 years) or am I using Abbott maths.

Yes, 1957.

You can see each of the years (apart from the first two in my case, IIRC) using the link on the page. Have you, for some reason, been getting credits since you retired?


One weird thing this thread has brought to light - I (and my wife) were utterly convinced we didn't reach state pension age until 67. Turns out it's 66 for both of us! I'd told my employer it was 67 a few months ago and they didn't query it.

[markymarkthree]

Sheepshanks said:

markymarkthree said:

I guess you are the same as me born in 1957.
I have the same as you, re 46 years of contributions. Which doesn't add up as I started work at 15/16 and retired at 59 (43 years) or am I using Abbott maths.

Yes, 1957.

You can see each of the years (apart from the first two in my case, IIRC) using the link on the page. Have you, for some reason, been getting credits since you retired?


One weird thing this thread has brought to light - I (and my wife) were utterly convinced we didn't reach state pension age until 67. Turns out it's 66 for both of us! I'd told my employer it was 67 a few months ago and they didn't query it.

I cant see the first three years of mine using the link and I am not aware of any credits and it makes no mention of credits. I don't claim any benefits as I doubt if I am entitled to any having retired through choice.

Weirdly I was the same as you and thought my pension was due at 67 having checked on the Gov site a couple of years ago. 66 will however be a nice little bonus assuming it happens.

[Sheepshanks]

markymarkthree said:

I cant see the first three years of mine using the link and I am not aware of any credits and it makes no mention of credits. I don't claim any benefits as I doubt if I am entitled to any having retired through choice.

Does it show any contribution record for years since you retired?

[markymarkthree]

Sheepshanks said:

markymarkthree said:

I cant see the first three years of mine using the link and I am not aware of any credits and it makes no mention of credits. I don't claim any benefits as I doubt if I am entitled to any having retired through choice.

Does it show any contribution record for years since you retired?

This what it shows for the last couple of years. I still do a very small amount of work for my old boss to help him out when he is in cart as he is a good un.

2018-19
Year is not full
Hide
2018-19
details
You have contributions from

Paid employment: £68.61

Find out more about gaps in your record and how to check them.
You can make up the shortfall
Pay a voluntary contribution of £190.45 by 5 April 2025. This shortfall may increase after 5 April 2021.
Find out more about voluntary contributions.


2017-18
Full year
Hide
2017-18
details
You have contributions from

Paid employment: £529.45

Also this.

You have:
46 years of full contributions
3 years to contribute before 5 April 2022
1 year when you did not contribute enough

Edited by markymarkthree on Saturday 4th January 13:34

[NRS]

FiF said:

jsf said:

FiF said:

Yes I realise that, however the statement has been made by thread detractors. My purpose was to illustrate some, not you, are possibly not totally clear about things.

Carry on OP, you have been treated disrespecfully on here by some imo. Just my 2p.

This person is posting false information. That needs calling out.

With respect you've behaved badly, also posted incorrect information and need sticking in the ignore bin. Bye.

The problem (from what I understand) is that the OP has taken a change for a specific group of people, some of whom didn't check what changed in their pension over time. The reporting also seems to be fixed now if people did check. This has then been indicated that it's an issue for everyone. It's good to highlight the need to check the website, and if you did contracting to check the details a bit more. However it is not good to create a lot of confusion and panic for anyone reading but just saying the info is rubbish and everyone might be screwed.

[LeadFarmer]

NRS said:

However it is not good to create a lot of confusion and panic for anyone reading but just saying the info is rubbish and everyone might be screwed.

I never said anything of the kind, if you look at my original post I finished by saying...

'So, if you are planning to retire before state pension age, telephone the pension helpline on gov.uk and make checks for your own personal circumstances.'


Its as simple as that, folk can check for themselves. I don't see why anyone would think they are screwed. If anyone is due a shortfall they can resolve it. I bet there are lots of people who due to this thread have gone on to look into their own pension, who otherwise wouldn't have bothered, or thought of doing a check. Some of whom have discovered they can retire a year earlier than they thought, yet one of those people happens to have also given me lots of grief for starting this thread. Bizarre.

Edited by LeadFarmer on Saturday 4th January 16:18

[markymarkthree]

I have just come off the phone to the helpline 08007310181 and spoke to a very helpful chap. He confirmed all is good and that I have made ample contributions. He will also be posting me a statement and stuff confirming all this.

Thanks once again to LeadFarmer for bringing this to my attention. My wife is especially chuffed as by me getting my Gov pension a year earlier than I had previously thought, means she can stop work a year earlier.

[anonymous-user]

All that person did was look at the same database the government website uses.

At least that puts to bed the nonsense about needing to keep paying NI once you have accrued enough credits.