State Pension potential shortfall warning

[Jasey_]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

Right, so I'm 57 and a half. The website is showing £168.60 and also, when I click on my NI record, it shows 41 years of fully paid up contributions.

If I storm out of work today in fury (which is entirely possible ), and don't work again, will I get the full state pension when I turn 67?

If it still exists ....

Maybe.

hth

[Terminator X]

The Leaper said:

croyde said:

I contracted out at some point, no idea why or who too, but according to the records I did.

I presume when I was young and daft. I wouldn't even know where to begin in order to find out what happened

Looks to me that you were in an employer sponsored pension plan for its employees, and the employer took the financial decision to contract out all the plan members. If so, members did not have the option to be contracted out of SERPS or not: the decision was for the employer. So, you paid less NICs, have a reduced State SERPS pension the latter being replaced (or more likely bettered) by your pension from the employer. Nothing lost, likely something gained.

R.

I opted out of SERPS etc in the 90's albeit persuaded by an independent FA. No idea where that money went if indeed it went anywhere at all. Likewise no idea if I was opted back in at any stage? What / who do I need to speak to to find out?

The state pension check links above seem to suggest I only need a few years more NI payments to get the maximum amount available.

TX.

Edited by Terminator X on Thursday 13th February 09:27

[craig1912]

Terminator X said:

I opted out of SERPS etc in the 90's albeit persuaded by an independent FA. No idea where that money went if indeed it went anywhere at all. Likewise no idea if I was opted back in at any stage? What / who do I need to speak to to find out?

The state pension check links above seem to suggest I only need a few years more NI payments to get the maximum amount available.

TX.

Edited by Terminator X on Thursday 13th February 09:27

Of course it went somewhere- it’s in either an individual pension plan (most probable) or a company scheme. You can’t “avoid” NI without it having gone into an approved scheme. Contracting out not longer exists from April 2016.
You need to find your pensions documentation

[TwigtheWonderkid]

Terminator X said:

I opted out of SERPS etc in the 90's albeit persuaded by an independent FA. No idea where that money went if indeed it went anywhere at all. Likewise no idea if I was opted back in at any stage? What / who do I need to speak to to find out?

The state pension check links above seem to suggest I only need a few years more NI payments to get the maximum amount available.

TX.

Edited by Terminator X on Thursday 13th February 09:27

You need to make the effort to find out, as you might be talking about a decent pot of money. If you opted out in say 1993, and probably would have been opted back in when it all came to an end, 2012, that's 19 years worth of payments. I opted out from 1987 to 2012 and my opted out pension is now worth circa £120K.

[The Leaper]

Terminator X said:

I opted out of SERPS etc in the 90's albeit persuaded by an independent FA. No idea where that money went if indeed it went anywhere at all. Likewise no idea if I was opted back in at any stage? What / who do I need to speak to to find out?

The state pension check links above seem to suggest I only need a few years more NI payments to get the maximum amount available.

TX.

Edited by Terminator X on Thursday 13th February 09:27

1. Why not ask the IFA that you used at the time?
2. Otherwise, was this in connection with a company sponsored pension plan? If so, ask the employer.
3. Was it through a personal pension plan? If so, ask the organisation that the plan is set up with.
4. If you don't know anything about it and have no records then check your personal records again. If nothing, you have a problem. The next step will be to call HMRC and see if they can identify the source/responsibility for the COPE from HMRC's records.

Good luck....and remember to keep all personal financial-related records in future!

R.

[TwigtheWonderkid]

Jasey_ said:

TwigtheWonderkid said:

Right, so I'm 57 and a half. The website is showing £168.60 and also, when I click on my NI record, it shows 41 years of fully paid up contributions.

If I storm out of work today in fury (which is entirely possible ), and don't work again, will I get the full state pension when I turn 67?

If it still exists ....

Maybe.

hth

Brilliant...I'll sleep soundly tonight.

[uknick]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

Right, so I'm 57 and a half. The website is showing £168.60 and also, when I click on my NI record, it shows 41 years of fully paid up contributions.

If I storm out of work today in fury (which is entirely possible ), and don't work again, will I get the full state pension when I turn 67?

If you've never, ever contracted out into a private/occupational pension since 1988 then yes.

If you did and no COPE is shown on your online record do what someone on this thread did and get a written state pension estimate from DWP/HMRC. This will give you a definitive pension amount.

At time of writing that is; the day after the letter is dated, who knows what your pension will be.

[TwigtheWonderkid]

uknick said:

TwigtheWonderkid said:

Right, so I'm 57 and a half. The website is showing £168.60 and also, when I click on my NI record, it shows 41 years of fully paid up contributions.

If I storm out of work today in fury (which is entirely possible ), and don't work again, will I get the full state pension when I turn 67?

If you've never, ever contracted out into a private/occupational pension since 1988 then yes.

If you did and no COPE is shown on your online record do what someone on this thread did and get a written state pension estimate from DWP/HMRC. This will give you a definitive pension amount.

At time of writing that is; the day after the letter is dated, who knows what your pension will be.

I was contracted out, from 1987-2012. My pension forecast says "like most people, you were contracted out of part of the state pension". Then I click on the link and it says:

"Your COPE estimate is £67.09 a week. This will not affect your State Pension forecast. The COPE amount is paid as part of your other pension schemes, not by the government."

So, when it says "This will not affect your State Pension forecast", I took that to mean that this will not affect your State Pension forecast. Probably a ludicrous assumption on my part.

[i4got]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

I was contracted out, from 1987-2012. My pension forecast says "like most people, you were contracted out of part of the state pension". Then I click on the link and it says:

"Your COPE estimate is £67.09 a week. This will not affect your State Pension forecast. The COPE amount is paid as part of your other pension schemes, not by the government."

So, when it says "This will not affect your State Pension forecast", I took that to mean that this will not affect your State Pension forecast. Probably a ludicrous assumption on my part.

It will already have been factored into the forecast. **

• assuming they've calculated it correctly.

[craig1912]

i4got said:

It will already have been factored into the forecast. **

• assuming they've calculated it correctly.

The COPE doesn’t really affect the forecast as it is just the GMP paid by the private scheme. It affects the initial calculation at 2016 and as you were contracted out it may mean more years of paying NI at the qualifying level.

[anonymous-user]

the tribester said:

However, if you previously 'COPEed out' some NI contributions into your private pension scheme, then although you may have a 'full' 35 years NI record, it will not be 35 full years worth towards pension contributions, and you could end up like I did, with 35 years NI contributions, but still 7 years short of max State Pension entitlement.

I've just been rereading the whole thread to try to get to the bottom of this "more than 35 years needed" question. Looks very much as though the tribester put his finger on one element of it way back at the beginning, namely the impact of transferring out to a SIPP if that takes some NI with it.

I found this explanation of the post-2016 state pension changes which looks to be a helpful summary,
https://www.royallondon.com/contentassets/8c6335d8...

It includes, "I’ve paid in more than 35 years, why don’t I get a full pension?"

"Almost certainly this will be because at some point you were a member of a ‘contracted out’ pension scheme and in those years you were putting less in to the system than someone who was not ‘contracted out’. For example, if you were a member of a salary related pension then during the years in question you and your employer would have benefited from paying in a reduced rate of NI Contributions. In return, your pension scheme made a promise to replace part of the state pension you would have been building up if you had not been contracted out. Because of this deal, a one-off deduction is made from the new state pension to take account of the pension your employer has promised to pay."

[LeoSayer]

That doesn't explain why, after 35 years of contributions, I will get the full State Pension even though I was contracted out for at least half of those.

[i4got]

LeoSayer said:

That doesn't explain why, after 35 years of contributions, I will get the full State Pension even though I was contracted out for at least half of those.

Have a look at my postings on this thread.

I was in the same situation. Showed full pension - no more contributions required and no COPE amount. When I asked for a written forecast they 'found' the contracted out details and updated the online forecast to show a) a COPE amount and b) a shortfall in years for the full pension

The Gov are aware that a small percentage of online forecasts are incorrect (reported on MSE site) and only get corrected when a written forecast is issued.

[LeoSayer]

i4got said:

Have a look at my postings on this thread.

I was in the same situation. Showed full pension - no more contributions required and no COPE amount. When I asked for a written forecast they 'found' the contracted out details and updated the online forecast to show a) a COPE amount and b) a shortfall in years for the full pension

The Gov are aware that a small percentage of online forecasts are incorrect (reported on MSE site) and only get corrected when a written forecast is issued.

I should have said in my earlier post - my State Pension forecast includes a COPE amount of £49.65 pw.

[Waitforme]

Igot
Could you please advise where I may get form BR19 ?

I found this very interesting thread and have read all 16 pages, created a Gov account and found out I’m short of full pension. See below.....

[FiF]

Waitforme said:

Igot
Could you please advise where I may get form BR19 ?

I found this very interesting thread and have read all 16 pages, created a Gov account and found out I’m short of full pension. See below.....

Out of interest how many full contribution years does it say you already have?

[craig1912]

How old are you and is 2025 your retirement date.
Are you still working and paying NI?

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/applica...

[i4got]

Waitforme said:

Igot
Could you please advise where I may get form BR19 ?

I found this very interesting thread and have read all 16 pages, created a Gov account and found out I’m short of full pension. See below.....

Here is the form link.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/applica...

[Waitforme]

Thanks for the link.
Born September 59 , so turned 60 last September.
Full years contributions from 75 to 2016
I’m still working but as a ltd co taking minimum wage out so not paying NI. Taking money out in dividends
It says I have a full year for 15/16 but didn’t make any contributions?

Edited by Waitforme on Saturday 15th February 12:20

Edited by Waitforme on Saturday 15th February 12:37

[Sheepshanks]

Waitforme said:

I’m still working but as a ltd co taking minimum wage out so not paying NI. Taking money out in dividends
It says I have a full year for 15/16 but didn’t make any contributions?

You’re supposed to pay yourself between the LEL and the PT:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/rates-a...