Transfer of (small) Barclays DB Pension
Discussion
Stay in Bed Instead said:
Which illustrates why the law mandates that financial advice is obtained.
Which has driven people to certain financial advisers who have given bad advice or simply scammed people.Which has put up the cost for other IFAs to conduct such business.
So the law has basically forced people into a position where they have been ripped off or scammed - and no one seems to have learnt from this.
As always, the good end up paying for the bad and it is the public who suffer.
JulianPH said:
Which has driven people to certain financial advisers who have given bad advice or simply scammed people.
Which has put up the cost for other IFAs to conduct such business.
So the law has basically forced people into a position where they have been ripped off or scammed - and no one seems to have learnt from this.
As always, the good end up paying for the bad and it is the public who suffer.
The public won't pay the cost of decent financial advice because they don't recognise the value of it and just want it as cheap as possible, and you blame the law for that?Which has put up the cost for other IFAs to conduct such business.
So the law has basically forced people into a position where they have been ripped off or scammed - and no one seems to have learnt from this.
As always, the good end up paying for the bad and it is the public who suffer.
Stay in Bed Instead said:
JulianPH said:
Which has driven people to certain financial advisers who have given bad advice or simply scammed people.
Which has put up the cost for other IFAs to conduct such business.
So the law has basically forced people into a position where they have been ripped off or scammed - and no one seems to have learnt from this.
As always, the good end up paying for the bad and it is the public who suffer.
The public won't pay the cost of decent financial advice because they don't recognise the value of it and just want it as cheap as possible, and you blame the law for that?Which has put up the cost for other IFAs to conduct such business.
So the law has basically forced people into a position where they have been ripped off or scammed - and no one seems to have learnt from this.
As always, the good end up paying for the bad and it is the public who suffer.
I have no beef with you, but how exactly do you quantify the value of financial advice against the high costs of paying for it?
We hear a lot about the risks and costs to the IFA, but very little as to how their fees add value.
Genuinely interested.
JulianPH said:
We hear a lot about the risks and costs to the IFA, but very little as to how their fees add value.
Genuinely interested.
Professional fees should be time based for the level of expertise you are buying. If I use £3K of time of an employment lawyer, for example, who negotiates an improved settlement position by £30K, the value add can be quantified. I don’t believe an IFA can negotiate improved terms or an increased transfer value, so what is the value add, aside from ensuring the facts of the DB scheme are correct and fully understood? Genuinely interested.
JulianPH said:
No. I blame the law for making it a requirement that people pay eye-watering fees to access their DB pensions, with many being scammed by unscrupulous IFAs as part of the process.
I have no beef with you, but how exactly do you quantify the value of financial advice against the high costs of paying for it?
We hear a lot about the risks and costs to the IFA, but very little as to how their fees add value.
Genuinely interested.
You are mistaken, the law does not specify any fee.I have no beef with you, but how exactly do you quantify the value of financial advice against the high costs of paying for it?
We hear a lot about the risks and costs to the IFA, but very little as to how their fees add value.
Genuinely interested.
I am a believer that you get what you pay for in life. and I know some really decent and professional IFA's. they are businesses at the end of the day though, just like yours and mine, and need to make a profit under the regulatory conditions they operate.
If some IFA's are charging excessively for transfer advice, then isn't that a matter for the FCA?
troika said:
Professional fees should be time based for the level of expertise you are buying. If I use £3K of time of an employment lawyer, for example, who negotiates an improved settlement position by £30K, the value add can be quantified. I don’t believe an IFA can negotiate improved terms or an increased transfer value, so what is the value add, aside from ensuring the facts of the DB scheme are correct and fully understood?
Would you still be happy to pay £3000 where the improvement to a settlement was £1000. After all, the same time has been spent?Edited by Stay in Bed Instead on Saturday 25th January 13:32
Stay in Bed Instead said:
Would you still be happy to pay £3000 where the improvement to a settlement was £1000. After all, the same time as been spent?
In that case I’d have misjudged the requirement for professional advice. My fault and my problem (unless the lawyer was a complete duffer or just ripping me off!).troika said:
JulianPH said:
We hear a lot about the risks and costs to the IFA, but very little as to how their fees add value.
Genuinely interested.
Professional fees should be time based for the level of expertise you are buying. If I use £3K of time of an employment lawyer, for example, who negotiates an improved settlement position by £30K, the value add can be quantified. I don’t believe an IFA can negotiate improved terms or an increased transfer value, so what is the value add, aside from ensuring the facts of the DB scheme are correct and fully understood? Genuinely interested.
They certainly can't negotiate an increased transfer value and they don't actually manage your investments. Yet many people pay for their services so I was simply enquiring what quantifiable value they bring to the table for their rather large fees.
Stay in Bed Instead said:
JulianPH said:
No. I blame the law for making it a requirement that people pay eye-watering fees to access their DB pensions, with many being scammed by unscrupulous IFAs as part of the process.
I have no beef with you, but how exactly do you quantify the value of financial advice against the high costs of paying for it?
We hear a lot about the risks and costs to the IFA, but very little as to how their fees add value.
Genuinely interested.
You are mistaken, the law does not specify any fee.I have no beef with you, but how exactly do you quantify the value of financial advice against the high costs of paying for it?
We hear a lot about the risks and costs to the IFA, but very little as to how their fees add value.
Genuinely interested.
I am a believer that you get what you pay for in life. and I know some really decent and professional IFA's. they are businesses at the end of the day though, just like yours and mine, and need to make a profit under the regulatory conditions they operate.
If some IFA's are charging excessively for transfer advice, then isn't that a matter for the FCA?
The FCA is not a price regulator, so no it is not a matter for them when IFAs charge excessive fees (though it appears they are moving in that direction.
Yet again we hear about the costs of doing business when my question was about the value your fees offer to the end client.
This repeated focus on you and your costs/profitability - and complete avoidance of any quantifiable value you add for your clients - does not not sound reassuring to people.
I am sure you are an excellent IFA and this is a platform for you to show this.
JulianPH said:
That is exactly my point and why I was asking the question.
They certainly can't negotiate an increased transfer value and they don't actually manage your investments. Yet many people pay for their services so I was simply enquiring what quantifiable value they bring to the table for their rather large fees.
Can you negotiate an increased transfer value?They certainly can't negotiate an increased transfer value and they don't actually manage your investments. Yet many people pay for their services so I was simply enquiring what quantifiable value they bring to the table for their rather large fees.
I would argue IFA's make recommendations of investment funds and products for their clients consideration. A decent IFA will review these annually with their client.
Do you not receive any business from IFA's?
JulianPH said:
If I am mistaken you will be able to point us in the direction of an IFA who does not charge fees for this service!
The FCA is not a price regulator, so no it is not a matter for them when IFAs charge excessive fees (though it appears they are moving in that direction.
Yet again we hear about the costs of doing business when my question was about the value your fees offer to the end client.
This repeated focus on you and your costs/profitability - and complete avoidance of any quantifiable value you add for your clients - does not not sound reassuring to people.
I am sure you are an excellent IFA and this is a platform for you to show this.
You are being a bit silly now. You stated the law required people to pay high transfer advice fees, it doesn't because it does not stipulate any specific fee. That is not the same as having to provide it freely.The FCA is not a price regulator, so no it is not a matter for them when IFAs charge excessive fees (though it appears they are moving in that direction.
Yet again we hear about the costs of doing business when my question was about the value your fees offer to the end client.
This repeated focus on you and your costs/profitability - and complete avoidance of any quantifiable value you add for your clients - does not not sound reassuring to people.
I am sure you are an excellent IFA and this is a platform for you to show this.
The FCA is always concerned about treating customers fairly, which as far as I am aware covers fees. I am sure they would find it unacceptable for an IFA to charge £15,000 for transfer advice on a £30,001 TV.
Value is subjective. How many clients think you have given them value if the value of there investments have fallen?
I am not an IFA Julian, which you well know.
Edited by Stay in Bed Instead on Saturday 25th January 14:03
Stay in Bed Instead said:
JulianPH said:
That is exactly my point and why I was asking the question.
They certainly can't negotiate an increased transfer value and they don't actually manage your investments. Yet many people pay for their services so I was simply enquiring what quantifiable value they bring to the table for their rather large fees.
Can you negotiate an increased transfer value?They certainly can't negotiate an increased transfer value and they don't actually manage your investments. Yet many people pay for their services so I was simply enquiring what quantifiable value they bring to the table for their rather large fees.
I would argue IFA's make recommendations of investment funds and products for their clients consideration. A decent IFA will review these annually with their client.
Do you not receive any business from IFA's?
2) I would agree, but does this actually add any value?
3) Yes, every single day. So I also see their eye-watering charges and experience their customers contacting us because their IFA has completely lost interest in working with them after the initial fee has been paid and the ongoing annual fee is "in the bag". A sad waste of an opportunity, in my mind.
Stay in Bed Instead said:
JulianPH said:
If I am mistaken you will be able to point us in the direction of an IFA who does not charge fees for this service!
The FCA is not a price regulator, so no it is not a matter for them when IFAs charge excessive fees (though it appears they are moving in that direction.
Yet again we hear about the costs of doing business when my question was about the value your fees offer to the end client.
This repeated focus on you and your costs/profitability - and complete avoidance of any quantifiable value you add for your clients - does not not sound reassuring to people.
I am sure you are an excellent IFA and this is a platform for you to show this.
You are being a bit silly now. You stated the law required people to pay high transfer advice fees, it doesn't because it does not stipulate any specific fee. That is not the same as having to provide it freely.The FCA is not a price regulator, so no it is not a matter for them when IFAs charge excessive fees (though it appears they are moving in that direction.
Yet again we hear about the costs of doing business when my question was about the value your fees offer to the end client.
This repeated focus on you and your costs/profitability - and complete avoidance of any quantifiable value you add for your clients - does not not sound reassuring to people.
I am sure you are an excellent IFA and this is a platform for you to show this.
The FCA is always concerned about treating customers fairly, which as far as I am aware covers fees. I am sure they would find it unacceptable for an IFA to charge £15,000 for transfer advice on a £30,001 TV.
Value is subjective. How many clients think you have given them value if the value of there investments have fallen?
I am not an IFA Julian, which you well know.
Edited by Stay in Bed Instead on Saturday 25th January 14:03
2) TCF doesn't specifically cover fees (quite amazingly). These are contractual matters, though I would expect that if someone were to levy a 50% initial charge the FCA should become involved.
3) It depends upon how much the underlying markets have fallen. We can't take credit for market gains or responsibility for market fall, but we can for positioning our portfolios to benefits from the gains and mitigate the falls in line with each of their objectives. On that point all of our portfolios are up significantly in value!
4) Sorry! My fault for focusing on what you were saying rather that who was saying it. I have a poorly daughter right now who is distracting my attention (no excuse though).
Stay in Bed Instead said:
troika said:
With the end of PPI the claims management are turning on anything that carries mandatory PI insurance.
You couldn't make this stuff up!
JulianPH said:
Stay in Bed Instead said:
troika said:
With the end of PPI the claims management are turning on anything that carries mandatory PI insurance.You couldn't make this stuff up!
Helicopter123 said:
JulianPH said:
Stay in Bed Instead said:
troika said:
With the end of PPI the claims management are turning on anything that carries mandatory PI insurance.You couldn't make this stuff up!
The senior IFA instructed us to invest this contribution into shares in a particular (listed) company and when they fell massively in value he used a CMF to demand we compensated him for the loss of his own "professional" decision making, saying we shouldn't have followed his instructions!
They obviously don't have a leg to stand on, but it just shows the entitled compensation culture that is growing in this country.
Gassing Station | Finance | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff