Transfer of (small) Barclays DB Pension

[troika]

Jasey_ said:

JulianPH said:

Jasey_ said:

Individual Savings and Insurance Services (ISIS) Ltd

You've got to love an IFA firm called ISIS!!!

didn't read it

They sound like proper weapons grade bell ends!

[JulianPH]

troika said:

Jasey_ said:

JulianPH said:

Jasey_ said:

Individual Savings and Insurance Services (ISIS) Ltd

You've got to love an IFA firm called ISIS!!!

didn't read it

They sound like proper weapons grade bell ends!

I bet they are also quite extremest and fanatical about their values too!

[troika]

Brave Fart said:

A very interesting thread, and Troika I agree with pretty much everything you've said. I find it ridiculous that I can totally alter the risk profile of my DC pension scheme, or even cash savings, with no barriers. Yet if my wife wishes to convert her DB pension (which will pay peanuts IF she lives another ten years) into a £75k DB sum she is prevented from doing so. Where is the fairness in that?

I also question the £30k cut off point where advice becomes compulsory. Would it be sensible to raise that limit to, say, £100k, or £250k or something? This would remove the "sue the IFA even if it's my decision" culture, and remove this stupid barrier that stops people accessing their own money.
It would mean that only serious lump sums would require compulsory advice.
What am I missing?

The more I research this, the more I realise what a complete farce it is. In an attempt to protect financially illiterate people, many have likely paid through the nose for questionable or unnecessary advice. I can see the PPI claim machines firing up, driven by the next group of parasites to jump on the train for their slice of other peoples money. What a mess. The FCA need investigating for incompetence in facilitating this situation.

[Brave Fart]

Helicopter123 said:

Quite simply, someone with a £150k DB pension as their only pension, is almost certain to be better off sticking with it. The rules are there to protect individuals.

OK then, let's raise the £30k limit to £100k. I agree that there's a need for safeguards for big amounts.
But for smaller sums it makes no sense.
My wife's DB will pay £1600 p.a. from age 65 IF she lives another ten years from now. Or she can have £75k now. But apparently, she needs protecting.
And yet, I can withdraw my DC pension pot in full, today, and blow the whole lot on whatever I fancy, with zero protection.
I know one's a promise and the other a current sum, but how come her small sum must be protected but my large sum is mine to do as I please?
It's that disparity that annoys me.

[phope]

Brave Fart said:

OK then, let's raise the £30k limit to £100k. I agree that there's a need for safeguards for big amounts.
But for smaller sums it makes no sense.
My wife's DB will pay £1600 p.a. from age 65 IF she lives another ten years from now. Or she can have £75k now. But apparently, she needs protecting.
And yet, I can withdraw my DC pension pot in full, today, and blow the whole lot on whatever I fancy, with zero protection.
I know one's a promise and the other a current sum, but how come her small sum must be protected but my large sum is mine to do as I please?
It's that disparity that annoys me.

Were the FCA consulting on the matter, I'd suggest linking the advice thresholds to the lifetime pension allowance rather than fixed £££ amounts (LTA is £1.055 million now, rising to £1.073 million for tax year to April 2021), with rising levels of client protection as the value increases

Everything else pension related is tested against the LTA, so why not this?

For example:

• DB transfer value <10% LTA - allow individuals to transfer out benefits without need for any advice if that is their choice (as currently for £30k or less), but offer clients access to freely available online guidance & tools, and a clear price capped advisory service to be provided for those that want advice.

• DB transfer value >10% and <25% LTA - Default position would be to recommend full financial advice, but allow individuals to transfer out of their own choice, but with a fully evidenced process signed off by an independent professional (not linked to any IFA involved with client) as to why they chose to disregard need for advice. Provide a standard FCA approved calculator/ready reckoner to assist the client in their choice. By going down this route, the client would have no recourse to make any claims against an IFA or FCA.

• DB transfer value >25% LTA - full advice process required in line with current situation - IFA & pension transfer specialist to make a full assessment and calculations to support their advice.

Perhaps that's too sensible or simplistic, but if appropriate safeguards could be designed and implemented, then it would expand pension freedom for many individuals & give more confidence in the systems, safeguards, advisers and regulators.

Edited by phope on Tuesday 28th January 20:54

[Brads67]

The above sounds great, but alongside that is the fact they were stopped from charging commission and then moved to a percentage base fee !!! wtf, is that not commission ??

Sure sounds like it. A report for a 1/2 mill pot is no harder to do than a pot of 1 mill, but they will charge at least another 5k for doing it.

[LeoSayer]

£100k is a huge amount for most people. I read somewhere that the average sized pension pot for people in their 50s is £75k.

I'm not sure what the appropriate safeguards could be.

Pass an exam to prove you have the knowledge to make your own financial decisions?

Even if the FCA didn't mandate advice, I imagine that DB schemes would still want some means of protection in some cases eg. where there's evidence of coercion or DD on the target scheme of investment is questionable.

[phope]

Well, in theory someone could go and sit CII exams * R01 through to RO6 then do AF7 to meet the minimum threshold needed under the law, then do their own calculations and assessment, but I suspect it’s cheaper and easier to pay someone else!

• other qualification routes also available from other institutes

https://www.cii.co.uk/learning/qualifications/unit...

https://brandft.co.uk/taking-a-closer-look-at-the-...

[Whataguy]

Maybe True Potential could help:

https://www.tpllp.com/

They couldn't help in my own case, but they offer a free initial pre-review and if it proceeds the full review fee is only £495.

I'm in a similar situation, but stuck even further as it's a cash balance DB scheme

Looks like no way out.

[Brads67]

Whataguy said:

Maybe True Potential could help:

https://www.tpllp.com/

They couldn't help in my own case, but they offer a free initial pre-review and if it proceeds the full review fee is only £495.

I'm in a similar situation, but stuck even further as it's a cash balance DB scheme

Looks like no way out.

They take 1% capped at £10k. Charges are average but will only give restricted advice and want you to use an IFA ongoing on top.
Total charges per annum add up to a fair whack.

They are far from the worst mind.

[vindaloo79]

Whataguy said:

Looks like no way out.

This is company I used. https://www.channelonefinancialservices.co.uk/have...

was 2.3% by looks of it. But was done with six weeks into my SIPP - no strings.

I wanted it done before regulation decided I couldn't or the quote was reduced so accepted the cost.

[Brads67]

vindaloo79 said:

This is company I used. https://www.channelonefinancialservices.co.uk/have...

was 2.3% by looks of it. But was done with six weeks into my SIPP - no strings.

I wanted it done before regulation decided I couldn't or the quote was reduced so accepted the cost.

Over a barrel, like the rest of us. Hardly good for the consumer is it ?

[granville997]

hi,
been look at this with interest DB member scheme now closed. ETV being offered and company providing IFA to advise on this, original IFA gave up licence to give DB transfer advice FCA involvement?.
New IFA appointed first meeting 3 months ago no real information feed back apart from initial adviser recommend a transfer, got to go to panel that's been the message since before Christmas. 300 people in process 178 done 16 recommended to transfer. Lots of people now geting there own ifa and not heard of one beem recommend to stay in DB scheme cost for this advice 20+k +ongoing 1%.
Still wait for company appoint IFA final report as I'm a tight a£se.
If report comes back as a no, i believe can ask for letter stating i have been advised on a DB transfer by a IFA with correct permission to do so, which then my DB scheme will transfer to a sipp which will accept a negative advice out come ( AJ Bell and AON will do this).
Believe I'm aware of the guarantees of the DB I'm losing index linked survivors pension 50 %.
Is the case ?
thanks

[Brads67]

granville997 said:

hi,
been look at this with interest DB member scheme now closed. ETV being offered and company providing IFA to advise on this, original IFA gave up licence to give DB transfer advice FCA involvement?.
New IFA appointed first meeting 3 months ago no real information feed back apart from initial adviser recommend a transfer, got to go to panel that's been the message since before Christmas. 300 people in process 178 done 16 recommended to transfer. Lots of people now geting there own ifa and not heard of one beem recommend to stay in DB scheme cost for this advice 20+k +ongoing 1%.
Still wait for company appoint IFA final report as I'm a tight a£se.
If report comes back as a no, i believe can ask for letter stating i have been advised on a DB transfer by a IFA with correct permission to do so, which then my DB scheme will transfer to a sipp which will accept a negative advice out come ( AJ Bell and AON will do this).
Believe I'm aware of the guarantees of the DB I'm losing index linked survivors pension 50 %.
Is the case ?
thanks

That will all depend on whether the appointed IFA is willing to provide you with a report saying the do not recommend moving.
You would be what's called an insistent client and current practice is to withhold the report in that case.

With fees at that level I'd be moving to another IFA sooner rather than later as it's only getting harder to find one.
You can ask the appointed IFA is he is going to provide your report regardless of outcome. That way you know whether you can leave the scheme regardless.

[granville997]

thanks for reply brad.
company appoint is free the fees of 20+k are for people who have appointed there own IFA. Seems the fee is lubricating the wheels to get a positive outcome, company appointed will get paid the same eitherway and will not have to carry the insurance.
Will ask if they will issue a report either way. But it all seems wrong to withheld a report which you have been paid to do (company paying appointed IFA to do report)

[Brads67]

granville997 said:

thanks for reply brad.
company appoint is free the fees of 20+k are for people who have appointed there own IFA. Seems the fee is lubricating the wheels to get a positive outcome, company appointed will get paid the same eitherway and will not have to carry the insurance.
Will ask if they will issue a report either way. But it all seems wrong to withheld a report which you have been paid to do (company paying appointed IFA to do report)

The fact they are company appointed may work in your favour then.

Good luck. It's been a good move for me, but the IFA involvement has soured my initial joy at the prospect of a much better future.

[bitchstewie]

Interesting article on insurance premiums for FA's.

Final salary pension pots locked as financial advisers can't afford rising insurance costs