Leaving the rat race after COVID
Discussion
Solutions simple - just move up North. Not the Lake District or parts of Cheshire, but the proper North.
Four bedroomed house near me going for £200k, 5 mins from countryside, decent schools, and the train to Manchester is 60 mins.
No need to earn the big bucks, just spend less. The way people talk about the SE makes you think that the streets are paved with gold?
Hopefully WFH catches on, and they'll be less of the must be SE based, when really you can do the job from home with an occasional meeting in London.
Four bedroomed house near me going for £200k, 5 mins from countryside, decent schools, and the train to Manchester is 60 mins.
No need to earn the big bucks, just spend less. The way people talk about the SE makes you think that the streets are paved with gold?
Hopefully WFH catches on, and they'll be less of the must be SE based, when really you can do the job from home with an occasional meeting in London.
Kent Border Kenny said:
If working from home becomes normal then we’re possibly going to give up our main family home in London, and relocate to be near one of our families, which means Northumberland or the Pyrenees, either of which allows a once a fortnight commute back into London for a couple of nights.
I hope that this is the way that things go, as I am not sure that I’m going to want to maintain a house like we have in the inner commuter belt given how London is nowadays.
In my view there is a distinction to be drawn between employers who require attendance less than five days a week, but more often than would work with a very long international commute, and those who don't have any expectation of ever seeing their employees. Those employers with offices in London and an expectation of two or more days a week in attendance will still need to be paying enough to cover SE costs, because most employees will still be based in that region. I can easily see an employer with no requirements for any sort of "commute" to reduce salaries to reflect a lower cost of living because their employees can live anywhere (with, no doubt, their customers and clients demanding at least some of that cost saving be passed down). I hope that this is the way that things go, as I am not sure that I’m going to want to maintain a house like we have in the inner commuter belt given how London is nowadays.
P1pps said:
Whether you work on a building site or in a professional services firm, most people working hard at demanding jobs will have 10-15 years of true graft in them at most. Some manage 20. But it is all downhill from there. You need to have a game plan and exit strategy from day one.
I think there is a lot of truth in this. The mistake some people make in high-earning, high-stress professional jobs is to spend like water in their 20s and 30s under the assumption that their earnings will continue on an upward progression through to their 50s/60s. This locks you into the 'golden cage' just as kids, school fees, and needing a 4+ bedroom house comes into play.Some people can do it but the downside risk if you burn out is huge.
NickCQ said:
P1pps said:
Whether you work on a building site or in a professional services firm, most people working hard at demanding jobs will have 10-15 years of true graft in them at most. Some manage 20. But it is all downhill from there. You need to have a game plan and exit strategy from day one.
I think there is a lot of truth in this. The mistake some people make in high-earning, high-stress professional jobs is to spend like water in their 20s and 30s under the assumption that their earnings will continue on an upward progression through to their 50s/60s. This locks you into the 'golden cage' just as kids, school fees, and needing a 4+ bedroom house comes into play.Some people can do it but the downside risk if you burn out is huge.
g3org3y said:
p1doc said:
BMA survey reckons 50% of doctors want to reduce workload after covid settles interesting times ahead...
Not me, bloody love it. MOAR work plz! (
) GP Partnership is a different ball game.
Dr
Nurse
Teacher
Science
AudiMan9000 said:
NickCQ said:
P1pps said:
Whether you work on a building site or in a professional services firm, most people working hard at demanding jobs will have 10-15 years of true graft in them at most. Some manage 20. But it is all downhill from there. You need to have a game plan and exit strategy from day one.
I think there is a lot of truth in this. The mistake some people make in high-earning, high-stress professional jobs is to spend like water in their 20s and 30s under the assumption that their earnings will continue on an upward progression through to their 50s/60s. This locks you into the 'golden cage' just as kids, school fees, and needing a 4+ bedroom house comes into play.Some people can do it but the downside risk if you burn out is huge.
P1pps said:
AudiMan9000 said:
NickCQ said:
P1pps said:
Whether you work on a building site or in a professional services firm, most people working hard at demanding jobs will have 10-15 years of true graft in them at most. Some manage 20. But it is all downhill from there. You need to have a game plan and exit strategy from day one.
I think there is a lot of truth in this. The mistake some people make in high-earning, high-stress professional jobs is to spend like water in their 20s and 30s under the assumption that their earnings will continue on an upward progression through to their 50s/60s. This locks you into the 'golden cage' just as kids, school fees, and needing a 4+ bedroom house comes into play.Some people can do it but the downside risk if you burn out is huge.
P1pps said:
AudiMan9000 said:
NickCQ said:
P1pps said:
Whether you work on a building site or in a professional services firm, most people working hard at demanding jobs will have 10-15 years of true graft in them at most. Some manage 20. But it is all downhill from there. You need to have a game plan and exit strategy from day one.
I think there is a lot of truth in this. The mistake some people make in high-earning, high-stress professional jobs is to spend like water in their 20s and 30s under the assumption that their earnings will continue on an upward progression through to their 50s/60s. This locks you into the 'golden cage' just as kids, school fees, and needing a 4+ bedroom house comes into play.Some people can do it but the downside risk if you burn out is huge.
Those women who are accustomed to a particular lifestyle, will divorce rather than tolerate a husband who is changing the status quo. They are quite happy to have a husband working longer hours over spending time with them.
And £20k won't go far if you're want to own a house in the South East or many other towns.
Edited by hyphen on Tuesday 14th July 19:26
AudiMan9000 said:
This is the situation I’m in now. Very unhappy at work. Difficulty readjusting after 12 weeks of furlough. Wife is stay at home mum to our young kids. I need to maintain current salary level to pay for mortgage, cars, holidays etc. I’m mid-30s and already burning out. I’m a one trick pony so getting any other job would likely result in substantial salary drop and inability to afford my current lifestyle.
Don't feel trapped.I was in a miserable job that paid well and have a wife, kids mortgage etc. My job was in a specialist industry and I was a specialist within the industry. Pretty niche. However, as I found out, my skills were extremely transferable. I moved from that industry ( investment casting) to aviation electronics and love it, having been stuck in the same industry for almost 20 years. I did take a hefty pay cut, but we agreed to cut our cloth accordingly. The house and location were important to us, so the mortgage stayed but most other stuff was cut. Hugely liberating and much happier. We have camping holidays, have four cars (but the newest is 11years old now), got new deals on all household stuff, don't eat out, etc.
I am doing pretty well in the new industry and wages have crept up again. This makes stuff easier, but we are still frugal(ish) meaning better pension savings and mortgage 'almost' paid off. I am now mid forties.
I would put some feelers out, see what crops up and change.
P1pps said:
My parents raised our family on one £15kpa income. We lived in a small house. They drove 10-year-old cars. They did not drink or buy new clothes. I did not go abroad until I was 21. You could easily do the same on £20kpa now.
Average rent on a 3 bed house in my area in the south is £1100pcm. On £20k you wouldn’t even be able to cover the rent and utility bills. If you crammed your family into a 2 bed you’d still need ~£1100 to cover rent and utilities so you’d have £350 per month to feed, clothe and transport a family so you’d be relying on state handouts without question. So it’s not possible never mind easy without significant support from the state.So move to where you can afford.
It’s isn’t that difficult, live where you can afford in a job that makes you happy(ish).
No one is trapped, whoever above posted about leasing 2 cars, big house, etc etc, just change.
Most jobs pay 10-20% more to be down South and the cost of living is 2 or 3 fold higher, relocate and enjoy your life.
I went from earning €150k a year at 25 to a whole lot less to come back to the UK (31 now / N Wales) and live within my new salary, yeah I’d like a new Aston or £10k Sandals’ holidays but you don’t need them, my wife adjusted as did I, now we live sensibly, less than 50% of our joint income is ‘already’ spent and we only have 20 years left on our 4/5 bed family home mortgage.
It’s isn’t that difficult, live where you can afford in a job that makes you happy(ish).
No one is trapped, whoever above posted about leasing 2 cars, big house, etc etc, just change.
Most jobs pay 10-20% more to be down South and the cost of living is 2 or 3 fold higher, relocate and enjoy your life.
I went from earning €150k a year at 25 to a whole lot less to come back to the UK (31 now / N Wales) and live within my new salary, yeah I’d like a new Aston or £10k Sandals’ holidays but you don’t need them, my wife adjusted as did I, now we live sensibly, less than 50% of our joint income is ‘already’ spent and we only have 20 years left on our 4/5 bed family home mortgage.
Playing devil’s advocate, is it not arguable that a husband/father is duty bound to maximise his earning potential to give his wife and children a life of opulence/privilege rather than take an easier/lower paying job forcing the family to downsize house and the kids to miss out on a childhood of exotic holidays and wanting for nothing? If you’re an unskilled worker, fair enough, get by on what little you’re able to earn. But if you’re someone capable of high earning, is it not incumbent on the person to do their best and give their loved ones the best life possible?
AudiMan9000 said:
Playing devil’s advocate, is it not arguable that a husband/father is duty bound to maximise his earning potential to give his wife and children a life of opulence/privilege rather than take an easier/lower paying job forcing the family to downsize house and the kids to miss out on a childhood of exotic holidays and wanting for nothing? If you’re an unskilled worker, fair enough, get by on what little you’re able to earn. But if you’re someone capable of high earning, is it not incumbent on the person to do their best and give their loved ones the best life possible?
Define best? Money and material things do not determine best lives. Something which seems too often forgotten in the UK.AudiMan9000 said:
Playing devil’s advocate, is it not arguable that a husband/father is duty bound to maximise his earning potential to give his wife and children a life of opulence/privilege rather than take an easier/lower paying job forcing the family to downsize house and the kids to miss out on a childhood of exotic holidays and wanting for nothing? If you’re an unskilled worker, fair enough, get by on what little you’re able to earn. But if you’re someone capable of high earning, is it not incumbent on the person to do their best and give their loved ones the best life possible?
Wow. The 1920's would like their attitudes back. Do you also walk through the front door and slap your wife on the ass as she stands by the cooker making you dinner?
If you think 'best life' is working 70 hours a week and not being around your kids then you need to sort out your priorities.
Condi said:
AudiMan9000 said:
Playing devil’s advocate, is it not arguable that a husband/father is duty bound to maximise his earning potential to give his wife and children a life of opulence/privilege rather than take an easier/lower paying job forcing the family to downsize house and the kids to miss out on a childhood of exotic holidays and wanting for nothing? If you’re an unskilled worker, fair enough, get by on what little you’re able to earn. But if you’re someone capable of high earning, is it not incumbent on the person to do their best and give their loved ones the best life possible?
Wow. The 1920's would like their attitudes back. Do you also walk through the front door and slap your wife on the ass as she stands by the cooker making you dinner?
If you think 'best life' is working 70 hours a week and not being around your kids then you need to sort out your priorities.
Is this what Audi drivers do?
AudiMan9000 said:
Playing devil’s advocate, is it not arguable that a husband/father is duty bound to maximise his earning potential to give his wife and children a life of opulence/privilege rather than take an easier/lower paying job forcing the family to downsize house and the kids to miss out on a childhood of exotic holidays and wanting for nothing? If you’re an unskilled worker, fair enough, get by on what little you’re able to earn. But if you’re someone capable of high earning, is it not incumbent on the person to do their best and give their loved ones the best life possible?
Playing devils advocate it depends if you want your children to grow up as spoilt little brats, not appreciating the value of anything, thinking life is all about materialistic things, expecting to progress into adult life not having to work or sweat for anything, looking down on others not so "fortunate" as themselves.You do your children no favours bringing them up not knowing what it is to compromise and not always have what they want rather than what they need.
Life is not all about impressing the neighbours
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