Leaving the rat race after COVID
Discussion
This is interesting. Taking a step back from a full on job is great but no longer having to make significant decisions or working flat out does take a bit of getting used to. I've been managing production, warehouse & distribution for 28 years but having voulntarily taken a bit of a backward step last year (for my own good) I'm not really liking not being the centre of everything in a busy operations dept. But at 53 you start to think about the work life balance. Having said that working right through Covid and supplying stuff to a very hungry Amazon it's been significantly busy.
The last 10 years... two redundancies, wife passing away, a brush with skin cancer, one parent dead , the other getting Alzheimer's. Makes you think - do stuff that makes you happy; if you can do that and reduce the workload it's got to be a good thing.
The last 10 years... two redundancies, wife passing away, a brush with skin cancer, one parent dead , the other getting Alzheimer's. Makes you think - do stuff that makes you happy; if you can do that and reduce the workload it's got to be a good thing.
Zstar said:
XJSJohn said:
mikeiow said:
....but an equally important piece is "what do you spend your time on if you to 'Retire Early'?". ..
TBH, this applies to any sort of Retirement. I saw this when living and working in Thailand, i was something of a minority being a westerner having a normal office job there, many of the other westerners that i knew were older retired people who had worked hard all their lives for their (sometimes early) retirement in tropical sun.
Thing was for many, once they stopped working they didn't know what else to do with their time, so many just ended up sitting in the bars from open to shut getting pissed .... which then has serious impact on your finances.
this is true!! Edited by XJSJohn on Wednesday 8th July 18:03
Zstar said:
85Carrera said:
Zstar said:
Yes, I’ve been thinking the same. I’ve worked in London, Singapore and Hong Kong, working ever longer hours for more pay and more stress. I own 2 properties but still live in rented accommodation as work and family keep changing. We have a 1 year old and WFH has been a revelation. I’m dreading going back to work, and I hate that he sometimes sees how busy and stressed I am. My wife is self employed and is always working late.
I think we will give it another 2-3 years (I’ll be mid 40s by then) and then look to move somewhere less stressful and try and get more enjoyable jobs (I’m thinking of training as a financial advisor) and spend more time together as a family. We also want to build a family home so that our son can settle down and make friends properly rather than living an expat lifestyle.
I did the expat thing like you. Best thing I ever did was move back to the UK and buy a semi-rural property. Makes you realise how much you sacrifice for that expat cash. I think we will give it another 2-3 years (I’ll be mid 40s by then) and then look to move somewhere less stressful and try and get more enjoyable jobs (I’m thinking of training as a financial advisor) and spend more time together as a family. We also want to build a family home so that our son can settle down and make friends properly rather than living an expat lifestyle.
UpTheIron said:
chip* said:
As an 4 eyes check, I hired a specialised financial planner to assess the viability of my retirement plan.
I'd be interested to know where you found said planner, it's something I've often considered.85Carrera said:
The Cardinal said:
My life's guiding motto:
You can't be in the rat race if you are not a rat
I think people focus more on the bit about racing and not enough on the bit about being a rat!
What does that actually mean though? Is the sort of thing I’d expect to see on a “motivational” calendar You can't be in the rat race if you are not a rat
I think people focus more on the bit about racing and not enough on the bit about being a rat!
It means that I have trade-marked the phrase, for use on motivational calendars all over the world. It translates really well into at least 12 languages, including Welsh, so I have printed 250,000 motivational calendars with the phrase in twelve slightly different variations. I aim to FIRE on a cunning passive income - brought about from the craze for the calendars and the consequent social media reaction, leading to huge pay-per-click advertising revenues.
Unfortunately, it seems there's less interest than I'd hoped for in 2020... but there's always 2021. I just need to correct 249,999 more calendars for the new year's dates. Damn the Gregorian system.
epicfail said:
This is interesting. Taking a step back from a full on job is great but no longer having to make significant decisions or working flat out does take a bit of getting used to. I've been managing production, warehouse & distribution for 28 years but having voulntarily taken a bit of a backward step last year (for my own good) I'm not really liking not being the centre of everything in a busy operations dept. But at 53 you start to think about the work life balance. Having said that working right through Covid and supplying stuff to a very hungry Amazon it's been significantly busy.
The last 10 years... two redundancies, wife passing away, a brush with skin cancer, one parent dead , the other getting Alzheimer's. Makes you think - do stuff that makes you happy; if you can do that and reduce the workload it's got to be a good thing.
You’ve been through an absolutely torrid time, really feel for you - I can’t imagine how hard dealing with all of that must have been. The last 10 years... two redundancies, wife passing away, a brush with skin cancer, one parent dead , the other getting Alzheimer's. Makes you think - do stuff that makes you happy; if you can do that and reduce the workload it's got to be a good thing.
dmahon said:
Great to hear people seeing the light and stepping off the gas. Hope we don’t all go back to what we were doing when COVID clears.
Funny how IT becomes such a slog 10-15 years in. The cycle of learning new technologies and dealing with the corporate politics wears really thin. Supporting all the crap legacy technology. Constant trend towards outsourcing and offshoring, declining rates etc. After having a good run for over a decade, sod that for a game of soldiers much longer.
Honestly, I've been in the game for the same time... and want to leave for the reasons you've outlined above. I love the tech, its the corporate BS that's the problem.Funny how IT becomes such a slog 10-15 years in. The cycle of learning new technologies and dealing with the corporate politics wears really thin. Supporting all the crap legacy technology. Constant trend towards outsourcing and offshoring, declining rates etc. After having a good run for over a decade, sod that for a game of soldiers much longer.
A really great book for anyone in IT, particularly software developers is 'Developer Hegemony':
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Developer-Hegemony-Future...
It discusses in depth how/why software/developers stagnate in corporate positions and what they can do to better themselves in quality of life, money and make it to the c-suite if they wish - highly recommended.
mikeiow said:
Some great advice here, I feel.
On the first one, when you felt savings would run out - do you think there is anything you could have done, or indeed someone in a similar position could see ahead of time, to ensure that doesn't become an issue?
Sounds like you have it fairly well sussed out now!
For me....it isn't about upping sticks and moving hundreds of miles: we have many good friends (& cycling/volleyball buddies!) locally, and some of those have started on their retirement path....so out current outgoings might well continue apace - we have tried out best to "future-proof" the home......
....but I'm keen to learn any hints & tips ;-)
Running out funds: it's a strange one and I was maybe being overly cautious but we had spent a bit on the place, I was trying to maintain an interest in cars, the travel back and forth to nursery school, then infants meant a 40mile a day journey as you took him, came home, went back for him, came home. It worked better if you could tie it all in with the work hours. We also were making 700 mile round trips to visit parents every couple of months and a decent shop (rather than the local Coop) was a 200 mile round trip to Inverness. Stuff in remote places is just more expensive too.On the first one, when you felt savings would run out - do you think there is anything you could have done, or indeed someone in a similar position could see ahead of time, to ensure that doesn't become an issue?
Sounds like you have it fairly well sussed out now!
For me....it isn't about upping sticks and moving hundreds of miles: we have many good friends (& cycling/volleyball buddies!) locally, and some of those have started on their retirement path....so out current outgoings might well continue apace - we have tried out best to "future-proof" the home......
....but I'm keen to learn any hints & tips ;-)
Edited by mikeiow on Tuesday 7th July 11:46
We had funds from the sale of a house but forecasting ahead and allowing for inflation, were spending more than the interest at the time and I could see problems not immediately but say 20 years ahead when we were 75/65.
85Carrera said:
An unusually honest post for PH and gives a lot of food for thought. Thank you (as I may be approaching the first stage you mention - or possibly not now ...)
Thanks, you need to go into a move like this with your eyes WIDE open.It's great, it's relaxing, if you decide you want to go somewhere or do something you can without asking your employers, there's less stress but you miss things which you take for granted, whether that be facilities, family, the routine of work and colleagues. It can also cost you more than you imagine and you need to allow for inflation over the full rest of your life until you croak. Now as has been pointed out to me by a friend and financial advisor, you don't need as much money as you get older as hobbies get put to one side,going out, holidays become less frequent and it's no point in having a huge bank balance when you are bed ridden. It's a difficult equation to calculate.
JulianPH said:
I did it years ago. Bought a nice house with land in the sticks and just work from home.
Sometimes I will go away for a few months. As long as I have phone and internet connection it doesn't really matter where I am.
My role guarantees a fair level of stress still, but I do it because I enjoy it, not because I have to.
You wouldn't get me back to London in a million years!
Life is for living and enjoying,
Many people these days seem to have gone through huge pressure at school to get the grades to go to university where come out with big debts to get a job that they don't really enjoy to save for a deposit for a house that wasn't what they really wanted and then spend years of their lives commuting to somewhere to spend each day with people they don't really like in order to pay off the mortgage, credit cards, HP payments and then try to put something aside for an underfunded retirement until they croak it.
That is not living.
The rat race is not what it is cracked up to be and one of the happiest, fittest, and least stressed people I know is our postman.
If you are lucky enough to be able to get out of the machine, then do it!
An American investment banker was at the pier of a small coastal Mexican village when a small boat with just one fisherman docked. Inside the small boat were several large yellowfin tuna. The American complimented the Mexican on the quality of his fish and asked how long it took to catch them.Sometimes I will go away for a few months. As long as I have phone and internet connection it doesn't really matter where I am.
My role guarantees a fair level of stress still, but I do it because I enjoy it, not because I have to.
You wouldn't get me back to London in a million years!
Life is for living and enjoying,
Many people these days seem to have gone through huge pressure at school to get the grades to go to university where come out with big debts to get a job that they don't really enjoy to save for a deposit for a house that wasn't what they really wanted and then spend years of their lives commuting to somewhere to spend each day with people they don't really like in order to pay off the mortgage, credit cards, HP payments and then try to put something aside for an underfunded retirement until they croak it.
That is not living.
The rat race is not what it is cracked up to be and one of the happiest, fittest, and least stressed people I know is our postman.
If you are lucky enough to be able to get out of the machine, then do it!
The Mexican replied, “only a little while. The American then asked why didn’t he stay out longer and catch more fish? The Mexican said he had enough to support his family’s immediate needs. The American then asked, “but what do you do with the rest of your time?”
The Mexican fisherman said, “I sleep late, fish a little, play with my children, take siestas with my wife, Maria, stroll into the village each evening where I sip wine, and play guitar with my amigos. I have a full and busy life.” The American scoffed, “I am a Harvard MBA and could help you. You should spend more time fishing and with the proceeds, buy a bigger boat. With the proceeds from the bigger boat, you could buy several boats, eventually you would have a fleet of fishing boats. Instead of selling your catch to a middleman you would sell directly to the processor, eventually opening your own cannery. You would control the product, processing, and distribution. You would need to leave this small coastal fishing village and move to Mexico City, then LA and eventually New York City, where you will run your expanding enterprise.”
The Mexican fisherman asked, “But, how long will this all take?”
To which the American replied, “15 – 20 years.”
“But what then?” Asked the Mexican.
The American laughed and said, “That’s the best part. When the time is right you would announce an IPO and sell your company stock to the public and become very rich, you would make millions!”
“Millions – then what?”
The American said, “Then you would retire. Move to a small coastal fishing village where you would sleep late, fish a little, play with your kids, take siestas with your wife, stroll to the village in the evenings where you could sip wine and play your guitar with your amigos.”
JulianPH said:
I did it years ago. Bought a nice house with land in the sticks and just work from home.
Sometimes I will go away for a few months. As long as I have phone and internet connection it doesn't really matter where I am.
My role guarantees a fair level of stress still, but I do it because I enjoy it, not because I have to.
You wouldn't get me back to London in a million years!
Life is for living and enjoying,
Many people these days seem to have gone through huge pressure at school to get the grades to go to university where come out with big debts to get a job that they don't really enjoy to save for a deposit for a house that wasn't what they really wanted and then spend years of their lives commuting to somewhere to spend each day with people they don't really like in order to pay off the mortgage, credit cards, HP payments and then try to put something aside for an underfunded retirement until they croak it.
That is not living.
The rat race is not what it is cracked up to be and one of the happiest, fittest, and least stressed people I know is our postman.
If you are lucky enough to be able to get out of the machine, then do it!
Edited for typos
Aren't those 'many people' your employees who are allowing you to live life?Sometimes I will go away for a few months. As long as I have phone and internet connection it doesn't really matter where I am.
My role guarantees a fair level of stress still, but I do it because I enjoy it, not because I have to.
You wouldn't get me back to London in a million years!
Life is for living and enjoying,
Many people these days seem to have gone through huge pressure at school to get the grades to go to university where come out with big debts to get a job that they don't really enjoy to save for a deposit for a house that wasn't what they really wanted and then spend years of their lives commuting to somewhere to spend each day with people they don't really like in order to pay off the mortgage, credit cards, HP payments and then try to put something aside for an underfunded retirement until they croak it.
That is not living.
The rat race is not what it is cracked up to be and one of the happiest, fittest, and least stressed people I know is our postman.
If you are lucky enough to be able to get out of the machine, then do it!
Edited for typos
Edited by JulianPH on Tuesday 7th July 09:50
JulianPH said:
The rat race is not what it is cracked up to be and one of the happiest, fittest, and least stressed people I know is our postman.
If you are lucky enough to be able to get out of the machine, then do it!
Edited for typos
I know exactly what you mean. I was looking at the chap cleaning our windows yesterday. Wandering round with a brush on a pole (no ladders), whistling to himself. By reckoning he is probably making £60 an hour and living the dream. If you are lucky enough to be able to get out of the machine, then do it!
Edited for typos
Edited by JulianPH on Tuesday 7th July 09:50
In the UK we are conditioned to think being chained to a desk is a good thing. It really isn't.
NorthDave said:
I know exactly what you mean. I was looking at the chap cleaning our windows yesterday. Wandering round with a brush on a pole (no ladders), whistling to himself. By reckoning he is probably making £60 an hour and living the dream.
In the UK we are conditioned to think being chained to a desk is a good thing. It really isn't.
It is good being in an office in winter and not every job is chained to a desk. Lots of our roles have visits to contractors / partners / sites too, which I guess is fortunate.In the UK we are conditioned to think being chained to a desk is a good thing. It really isn't.
evoraboy12 said:
It is good being in an office in winter and not every job is chained to a desk. Lots of our roles have visits to contractors / partners / sites too, which I guess is fortunate.
It's not as good as being in a ski resort or a sunny place but I get your point. Variety is the spice of life!NorthDave said:
It's not as good as being in a ski resort or a sunny place but I get your point. Variety is the spice of life!
I guess it depends on what makes us all tick. I know lots of people in high pressure jobs who I am sure thrive on it. I get a very generous annual leave entitlement and option of purchase of an extra week and can spend every other month of the year in the sun or a ski resort which I have little desire to do as I am quite happy with relatively cheap hobbies in the UK (cycling/running/hiking), occasionally I will travel but it's certainly not a dream to live in a ski resort of Spain. Sounds like Julian is very lucky with his current set up with WFH and a successful business. evoraboy12 said:
NorthDave said:
It's not as good as being in a ski resort or a sunny place but I get your point. Variety is the spice of life!
I guess it depends on what makes us all tick. I know lots of people in high pressure jobs who I am sure thrive on it. I get a very generous annual leave entitlement and option of purchase of an extra week and can spend every other month of the year in the sun or a ski resort which I have little desire to do as I am quite happy with relatively cheap hobbies in the UK (cycling/running/hiking), occasionally I will travel but it's certainly not a dream to live in a ski resort of Spain. Sounds like Julian is very lucky with his current set up with WFH and a successful business. Ltd company contractor here usually in Aerospace manufacturing.
Ir35, Covid and Brexit have made the future uncertain.
I had a retirement plan. It's now f
ked.
We are looking at options but then 2 weeks ago I had a heart attack.
The options seem less palatable.
I NEED to simplify life.
Ir35, Covid and Brexit have made the future uncertain.
I had a retirement plan. It's now f
ked. We are looking at options but then 2 weeks ago I had a heart attack.
The options seem less palatable.
I NEED to simplify life.
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