Stock market is a "fully-fledged epic bubble" and will burst
Discussion
Mr Whippy said:
I know, hindsight.
Covid19 could have been managed better.
Why lock down at the peak? Why no limits on major spreading events in Jan/Feb/March 2020?
Why no idea on mask efficacy?
China. Duh. Export your GBP to China. What does that equal.
Countries used to fight for exports, literally go to war. The West has used cheap labour for decades as a short term sticking plaster to keep inflation low, to a fault.
Climate. I’d call this ecology. Things like bottle returns vs plastic as a starter. Reuse vs recycle.
Central animal slaughterhouses running on co2, being “more humane” but less humane pre-slaughter... which is worse?
Transporting animals around for no reason. Packing food in more plastic.
Mountains of centralisation for profit over consideration for animal welfare and energy costs etc.
There are never just winners, it’s always winners and losers.
Housing. Houses are simple. Building is simple. Considerate planning is simple.
It’s all broken because government want to enrich the builders and land owners.
Thousands of years ago we lived in caves. Hundreds of years, mud shacks.
Recent history, stone.
Romans built houses. Indians Teepees.
It’s not rocket science.
It’s centralised failure. There is only one place that makes these decisions. Westminster.
They can fix this by stopping thinking about themselves and their crony mates and the rich people, and think long term. But they can’t. They’re crippled by their own fears for their sad little careers and jobs.
They live a life and career as a failure to do the job at hand.
Energy. We’re burning gas to make electric.
Gas also heats homes.
Gas also makes the co2 we need to kill food so we can eat.
There is a crisis. We shouldn’t make electric with fecking gas, but here we are!
Centralised failure to think beyond the end of their pensions and the next election.
Jeez how hard is it? France manage it. Yet right now we talk as if they’re a bunch of idiots, while they run half our public transport and profit from it, and sell us electric and profit from it, to enhance their domestic transport and energy supply.
We’re the f
king idiots!
I'm still inclined to disagree. Covid19 could have been managed better.
Why lock down at the peak? Why no limits on major spreading events in Jan/Feb/March 2020?
Why no idea on mask efficacy?
China. Duh. Export your GBP to China. What does that equal.
Countries used to fight for exports, literally go to war. The West has used cheap labour for decades as a short term sticking plaster to keep inflation low, to a fault.
Climate. I’d call this ecology. Things like bottle returns vs plastic as a starter. Reuse vs recycle.
Central animal slaughterhouses running on co2, being “more humane” but less humane pre-slaughter... which is worse?
Transporting animals around for no reason. Packing food in more plastic.
Mountains of centralisation for profit over consideration for animal welfare and energy costs etc.
There are never just winners, it’s always winners and losers.
Housing. Houses are simple. Building is simple. Considerate planning is simple.
It’s all broken because government want to enrich the builders and land owners.
Thousands of years ago we lived in caves. Hundreds of years, mud shacks.
Recent history, stone.
Romans built houses. Indians Teepees.
It’s not rocket science.
It’s centralised failure. There is only one place that makes these decisions. Westminster.
They can fix this by stopping thinking about themselves and their crony mates and the rich people, and think long term. But they can’t. They’re crippled by their own fears for their sad little careers and jobs.
They live a life and career as a failure to do the job at hand.
Energy. We’re burning gas to make electric.
Gas also heats homes.
Gas also makes the co2 we need to kill food so we can eat.
There is a crisis. We shouldn’t make electric with fecking gas, but here we are!
Centralised failure to think beyond the end of their pensions and the next election.
Jeez how hard is it? France manage it. Yet right now we talk as if they’re a bunch of idiots, while they run half our public transport and profit from it, and sell us electric and profit from it, to enhance their domestic transport and energy supply.
We’re the f
king idiots!Re China, we've outsourced the manufacturing of tat no one needs to survive. The money isn't in slave labour manufactured garden chairs but in the import taxes, mark-up and sales taxes. Not only do we get to move all the market risk offshore but we've stitched them up with the pollution on top.
Energy, we got several days last year of 50% of production being renewables. We've had massive and successful investment into wind to the point that our main problem now is that we can't store the excess. And this is still a fledgling market. Gas usage has been declining for years. It has needed to from a national security perspective as Noeth Sea has declines and we become more reliant on European pipelines. Even though, it's infinitely more efficient to create electricity from gas at an industrial source than to pipe that gas to a million, highly polluting, inefficient heat generators.
The key with China is that we don't get energy from them, we don't get food from them and we don't get security from them. What we do get from them is dirt cheap production of non essential tat where the true risk is that Margaret is going to lose her s
t because her plastic rayan garden crap is stuck in the Suez Canal. 
The much more interesting play with regards to China for the UK is in markets such as automotive where cars are now disposable white goods which we mostly source from the EU but are now free to source from China. Given that Germany is our key local competitor and with a superior and unassailable manufacturing position, diverting that spend to Asia will be beneficial to the UK as it has been with other disposable products such as TVs, fridges etc where UK land and labour costs make them unviable to ever produce locally. Germany will continue to work hard to block Chinese vehicles from the EU market but on paper we are free to switch from buying these disposable goods from the EU.
2Btoo said:
Simpo Two said:
I think much of what you say is down to Govts and people in general kowtowing to noisy 'activists' who in previous eras would have been thrown in jail. Wanna block the M25 for a few hours? Sure no problem. Can I do it? Nope.
The general population now recieves more information that they have the intelligence to assess, not all of it is right anyway, and it's too easy to make a noise. We also have PC evolving into intolerant 'woke'. So you can find a bloke in the street and interview him for the telly and he will say what he's supposed to say. Quite soon you end up in a loop of st, and if the politicians don't do what the shouters want they get slagged off in the media and voted out for the next bunch.
There's truth in this. Add in the fact that social media allows a small number of people with extreme viewpoints to get a disproportionate amount of attention and far left (and far right) groups will grow in number. The general population now recieves more information that they have the intelligence to assess, not all of it is right anyway, and it's too easy to make a noise. We also have PC evolving into intolerant 'woke'. So you can find a bloke in the street and interview him for the telly and he will say what he's supposed to say. Quite soon you end up in a loop of s
t, and if the politicians don't do what the shouters want they get slagged off in the media and voted out for the next bunch.Politics is more and more driven by money and hence politicians are more and more given to short-term viewpoints, looking to stay in power at the next election. They therefore pay more attention to shouty people than they should.
Divide and conquer rules supreme. Why stick your neck out to act competently when it's easier to just encourage the public to look to each other for societies failures, and then just do a piss poor job and only worry about your own career path.
It will be more zirp/nirp/money printing.
It will come to a head.
It won't be a smooth transition into good times. It's going to fail over big time before it gets better.
It's too far gone now to become good again via any managed means in my view.
DonkeyApple said:
I'm still inclined to disagree.
Re China, we've outsourced the manufacturing of tat no one needs to survive. The money isn't in slave labour manufactured garden chairs but in the import taxes, mark-up and sales taxes. Not only do we get to move all the market risk offshore but we've stitched them up with the pollution on top.
Energy, we got several days last year of 50% of production being renewables. We've had massive and successful investment into wind to the point that our main problem now is that we can't store the excess. And this is still a fledgling market. Gas usage has been declining for years. It has needed to from a national security perspective as Noeth Sea has declines and we become more reliant on European pipelines. Even though, it's infinitely more efficient to create electricity from gas at an industrial source than to pipe that gas to a million, highly polluting, inefficient heat generators.
The key with China is that we don't get energy from them, we don't get food from them and we don't get security from them. What we do get from them is dirt cheap production of non essential tat where the true risk is that Margaret is going to lose her st because her plastic rayan garden crap is stuck in the Suez Canal.
The much more interesting play with regards to China for the UK is in markets such as automotive where cars are now disposable white goods which we mostly source from the EU but are now free to source from China. Given that Germany is our key local competitor and with a superior and unassailable manufacturing position, diverting that spend to Asia will be beneficial to the UK as it has been with other disposable products such as TVs, fridges etc where UK land and labour costs make them unviable to ever produce locally. Germany will continue to work hard to block Chinese vehicles from the EU market but on paper we are free to switch from buying these disposable goods from the EU.
Non essential tat? I assume you're posting from a computer/tablet or smart phone? Any idea where that device is made?Re China, we've outsourced the manufacturing of tat no one needs to survive. The money isn't in slave labour manufactured garden chairs but in the import taxes, mark-up and sales taxes. Not only do we get to move all the market risk offshore but we've stitched them up with the pollution on top.
Energy, we got several days last year of 50% of production being renewables. We've had massive and successful investment into wind to the point that our main problem now is that we can't store the excess. And this is still a fledgling market. Gas usage has been declining for years. It has needed to from a national security perspective as Noeth Sea has declines and we become more reliant on European pipelines. Even though, it's infinitely more efficient to create electricity from gas at an industrial source than to pipe that gas to a million, highly polluting, inefficient heat generators.
The key with China is that we don't get energy from them, we don't get food from them and we don't get security from them. What we do get from them is dirt cheap production of non essential tat where the true risk is that Margaret is going to lose her s
t because her plastic rayan garden crap is stuck in the Suez Canal. The much more interesting play with regards to China for the UK is in markets such as automotive where cars are now disposable white goods which we mostly source from the EU but are now free to source from China. Given that Germany is our key local competitor and with a superior and unassailable manufacturing position, diverting that spend to Asia will be beneficial to the UK as it has been with other disposable products such as TVs, fridges etc where UK land and labour costs make them unviable to ever produce locally. Germany will continue to work hard to block Chinese vehicles from the EU market but on paper we are free to switch from buying these disposable goods from the EU.
And all that 'tat' is gobbling up raw materials that is causing price inflation and material shortages in the UK.
Wtf are you on about? A couple of market trading energy firms have failed to hedge their costs effectively, taking a massive and strategic long term gamble on commodity pricing staying low and when it turns out they've fked up it's all the "governments" fault and the "government" need to step in and bail them out and dictate a 5 year recovery plan.... What a load of bks. It's the banks all over. Let badly run businesses fail, protect the end consumers and carry on, then we'll get fair markets, fair pricing and long term stability for consumers. It's not the "governments" fault energy firms are greedy tts.
ked up it's all the "governments" fault and the "government" need to step in and bail them out and dictate a 5 year recovery plan.... What a load of bks. It's the banks all over. Let badly run businesses fail, protect the end consumers and carry on, then we'll get fair markets, fair pricing and long term stability for consumers. It's not the "governments" fault energy firms are greedy tts.BobsPigeon said:
Wtf are you on about? A couple of market trading energy firms have failed to hedge their costs effectively, taking a massive and strategic long term gamble on commodity pricing staying low and when it turns out they've fked up it's all the "governments" fault and the "government" need to step in and bail them out and dictate a 5 year recovery plan.... What a load of bks. It's the banks all over. Let badly run businesses fail, protect the end consumers and carry on, then we'll get fair markets, fair pricing and long term stability for consumers. It's not the "governments" fault energy firms are greedy tts.
Maybe you've forgotten this little nugget.......ked up it's all the "governments" fault and the "government" need to step in and bail them out and dictate a 5 year recovery plan.... What a load of bks. It's the banks all over. Let badly run businesses fail, protect the end consumers and carry on, then we'll get fair markets, fair pricing and long term stability for consumers. It's not the "governments" fault energy firms are greedy tts.https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3617506/B...
Unknown_User said:
Maybe you've forgotten this little nugget.......
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3617506/B...
Heh, another lie from the liar but as ever they'll have plenty of escape doors thanks to covid, international events, unexpected climate goings on etc and the people who voted for *it* and them will continue to lap it up. Anyone know the odds on a pro-EU GE for the next one, or one after?https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3617506/B...
Unknown_User said:
DonkeyApple said:
I'm still inclined to disagree.
Re China, we've outsourced the manufacturing of tat no one needs to survive. The money isn't in slave labour manufactured garden chairs but in the import taxes, mark-up and sales taxes. Not only do we get to move all the market risk offshore but we've stitched them up with the pollution on top.
Energy, we got several days last year of 50% of production being renewables. We've had massive and successful investment into wind to the point that our main problem now is that we can't store the excess. And this is still a fledgling market. Gas usage has been declining for years. It has needed to from a national security perspective as Noeth Sea has declines and we become more reliant on European pipelines. Even though, it's infinitely more efficient to create electricity from gas at an industrial source than to pipe that gas to a million, highly polluting, inefficient heat generators.
The key with China is that we don't get energy from them, we don't get food from them and we don't get security from them. What we do get from them is dirt cheap production of non essential tat where the true risk is that Margaret is going to lose her st because her plastic rayan garden crap is stuck in the Suez Canal.
The much more interesting play with regards to China for the UK is in markets such as automotive where cars are now disposable white goods which we mostly source from the EU but are now free to source from China. Given that Germany is our key local competitor and with a superior and unassailable manufacturing position, diverting that spend to Asia will be beneficial to the UK as it has been with other disposable products such as TVs, fridges etc where UK land and labour costs make them unviable to ever produce locally. Germany will continue to work hard to block Chinese vehicles from the EU market but on paper we are free to switch from buying these disposable goods from the EU.
Non essential tat? I assume you're posting from a computer/tablet or smart phone? Any idea where that device is made?Re China, we've outsourced the manufacturing of tat no one needs to survive. The money isn't in slave labour manufactured garden chairs but in the import taxes, mark-up and sales taxes. Not only do we get to move all the market risk offshore but we've stitched them up with the pollution on top.
Energy, we got several days last year of 50% of production being renewables. We've had massive and successful investment into wind to the point that our main problem now is that we can't store the excess. And this is still a fledgling market. Gas usage has been declining for years. It has needed to from a national security perspective as Noeth Sea has declines and we become more reliant on European pipelines. Even though, it's infinitely more efficient to create electricity from gas at an industrial source than to pipe that gas to a million, highly polluting, inefficient heat generators.
The key with China is that we don't get energy from them, we don't get food from them and we don't get security from them. What we do get from them is dirt cheap production of non essential tat where the true risk is that Margaret is going to lose her s
t because her plastic rayan garden crap is stuck in the Suez Canal. The much more interesting play with regards to China for the UK is in markets such as automotive where cars are now disposable white goods which we mostly source from the EU but are now free to source from China. Given that Germany is our key local competitor and with a superior and unassailable manufacturing position, diverting that spend to Asia will be beneficial to the UK as it has been with other disposable products such as TVs, fridges etc where UK land and labour costs make them unviable to ever produce locally. Germany will continue to work hard to block Chinese vehicles from the EU market but on paper we are free to switch from buying these disposable goods from the EU.
And all that 'tat' is gobbling up raw materials that is causing price inflation and material shortages in the UK.
DA will be referring to having the latest phone to show off with, buying a new car after 2 years to make sure we can have the "correct" licence plate to show the Jones next door etc. None of what we really need, we just want to have it. It's fine if you have the money, but lots of people are getting into debt for it all.
BobsPigeon said:
Let badly run businesses fail, protect the end consumers and carry on, then we'll get fair markets, fair pricing and long term stability for consumers. It's not the "governments" fault energy firms are greedy tts.
Wtf do you propose if they all fail? AIUI, the surviving companies don't want orphan customers as current gas prices are above the price cap, and adding customers will make them exhaust their hedged supplies sooner.ts.Unknown_User said:
Non essential tat? I assume you're posting from a computer/tablet or smart phone? Any idea where that device is made?
And all that 'tat' is gobbling up raw materials that is causing price inflation and material shortages in the UK.
I'm posting from a disposable device which was assembled in China for a few quid while all the major profits were banked via offshore name plates controlled by UK chipmakers and US designers and the domestic retailer. And all that 'tat' is gobbling up raw materials that is causing price inflation and material shortages in the UK.
BobsPigeon said:
Wtf are you on about? A couple of market trading energy firms have failed to hedge their costs effectively, taking a massive and strategic long term gamble on commodity pricing staying low and when it turns out they've fked up it's all the "governments" fault and the "government" need to step in and bail them out and dictate a 5 year recovery plan.... What a load of bks. It's the banks all over. Let badly run businesses fail, protect the end consumers and carry on, then we'll get fair markets, fair pricing and long term stability for consumers. It's not the "governments" fault energy firms are greedy tts.
Re those 'utility' firms, absolutely. They set up under the flawed premis that required energy prices to not spike upwards. Massive gambles on reaching critical consumer mass before the ticking bomb went off. Bad business on the same rotten foundations as P2P and the ilk. ked up it's all the "governments" fault and the "government" need to step in and bail them out and dictate a 5 year recovery plan.... What a load of bks. It's the banks all over. Let badly run businesses fail, protect the end consumers and carry on, then we'll get fair markets, fair pricing and long term stability for consumers. It's not the "governments" fault energy firms are greedy tts.I think these were the junk firms most likely to be offering incentives for consumers to try and use them as savings accounts as well? The FCA were it not asleep at the wheel had a duty to halt dubious and speculative enterprises from pretending to be banks.
DonkeyApple said:
Unknown_User said:
Non essential tat? I assume you're posting from a computer/tablet or smart phone? Any idea where that device is made?
And all that 'tat' is gobbling up raw materials that is causing price inflation and material shortages in the UK.
I'm posting from a disposable device which was assembled in China for a few quid while all the major profits were banked via offshore name plates controlled by UK chipmakers and US designers and the domestic retailer. And all that 'tat' is gobbling up raw materials that is causing price inflation and material shortages in the UK.
Simpo Two said:
I think much of what you say is down to Govts and people in general kowtowing to noisy 'activists' who in previous eras would have been thrown in jail. Wanna block the M25 for a few hours? Sure no problem. Can I do it? Nope.
The general population now recieves more information that they have the intelligence to assess, not all of it is right anyway, and it's too easy to make a noise. We also have PC evolving into intolerant 'woke'. So you can find a bloke in the street and interview him for the telly and he will say what he's supposed to say. Quite soon you end up in a loop of st, and if the politicians don't do what the shouters want they get slagged off in the media and voted out for the next bunch.
I feel a good example of this sort of stupidity is the free school meal fiasco where a very wealthy individual who partakes robustly in tax avoidance and who works in an industry that is built upon tax avoidance can stand up publicly and instruct taxpayers who aren't wealthy and aren't partaking in offshore tax avoidance to pick up the tab for their chosen project. The general population now recieves more information that they have the intelligence to assess, not all of it is right anyway, and it's too easy to make a noise. We also have PC evolving into intolerant 'woke'. So you can find a bloke in the street and interview him for the telly and he will say what he's supposed to say. Quite soon you end up in a loop of s
t, and if the politicians don't do what the shouters want they get slagged off in the media and voted out for the next bunch.The Govt missed a huge trick by not instantly turning around to the football industry and saying that they would match £ for £ every repatriated amount of tax made by sporting professionals and offering to extend it to the media industry. In one fell swoop they would have educated the public in regards to the £billions of tax avoided by the sports and media workers every year while looking like tremendous friends of the people. Instead, they pandered and cowered and forced the conventional tax payer to write a cheque to cover the shortfall from those industry's prolific avoidance activities.
DonkeyApple said:
I'm posting from a disposable device which was assembled in China for a few quid while all the major profits were banked via offshore name plates controlled by UK chipmakers and US designers and the domestic retailer.
Hasn't there recently been an issue with ARM's Chinese subsidiary declaring UDI?
xeny said:
Wtf do you propose if they all fail? AIUI, the surviving companies don't want orphan customers as current gas prices are above the price cap, and adding customers will make them exhaust their hedged supplies sooner.
Increase the cap with a view to reviewing again in 3-6 months so that suppliers can pass the cost on to customers. A lot of these smaller suppliers are just badly run and wouldn't really be missed, and if there was a true need for them new ones will eventually take their place.PeteinSQ said:
xeny said:
Wtf do you propose if they all fail? AIUI, the surviving companies don't want orphan customers as current gas prices are above the price cap, and adding customers will make them exhaust their hedged supplies sooner.
Increase the cap with a view to reviewing again in 3-6 months so that suppliers can pass the cost on to customers. A lot of these smaller suppliers are just badly run and wouldn't really be missed, and if there was a true need for them new ones will eventually take their place.I changed companies and SP then hounded me to rejoin. By that I mean multiple calls and texts per week. I blocked their number and they started calling me from other numbers. I asked them multiple time to take me off their lists, and they would stop for a couple of weeks, then restart.
98elise said:
PeteinSQ said:
xeny said:
Wtf do you propose if they all fail? AIUI, the surviving companies don't want orphan customers as current gas prices are above the price cap, and adding customers will make them exhaust their hedged supplies sooner.
Increase the cap with a view to reviewing again in 3-6 months so that suppliers can pass the cost on to customers. A lot of these smaller suppliers are just badly run and wouldn't really be missed, and if there was a true need for them new ones will eventually take their place.I changed companies and SP then hounded me to rejoin. By that I mean multiple calls and texts per week. I blocked their number and they started calling me from other numbers. I asked them multiple time to take me off their lists, and they would stop for a couple of weeks, then restart.
At least Octopus ask before they increase your direct debit. We have very seasonal electricity usage (we have an electric aga which we switch off in summer) but I know this, and I know from having lived here for 8 years how much electricity we use across the entire year. So I give them that info (and now we've been with them over a year they can confirm it) and split the cost equally over 12 months. So currently I've got a pretty big amount of credit but that will get gobbled up over the next 6 months when the aga goes back on in October.
The aga uses at least £5 a day in electricity. Probably more like £8 or £9 with this increase.
The aga uses at least £5 a day in electricity. Probably more like £8 or £9 with this increase.
PeteinSQ said:
The aga uses at least £5 a day in electricity. Probably more like £8 or £9 with this increase.
Better on oil for an Aga these days?I recall old Aga could be converted, ie, coke, coal, oil, but assume leccy ones are stuck on leccy.
My Dad bought a leccy one but paid £15,000 for solar so it roughly offset the cost.
Mr Whippy said:
PeteinSQ said:
The aga uses at least £5 a day in electricity. Probably more like £8 or £9 with this increase.
Better on oil for an Aga these days?I recall old Aga could be converted, ie, coke, coal, oil, but assume leccy ones are stuck on leccy.
My Dad bought a leccy one but paid £15,000 for solar so it roughly offset the cost.
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