Deliveroo's Prospective IPO
Discussion
Condi said:
Given the ruling that Uber's drivers are employees and thus entitled to holiday pay, minimum wage etc, then how is Deliveroo different?
Once they have to pay people properly their costs will be much too high for the business to work, you cant pay someone £10 per hour, plus holiday plus pension plus sick pay to deliver 3 takeaway orders. Simply doesn't add up.
Hows it going to work getting paid £10 an hour to stand about. You would literally be able to sign on for a delivery and no incentive to do it fast or even pick any up.Once they have to pay people properly their costs will be much too high for the business to work, you cant pay someone £10 per hour, plus holiday plus pension plus sick pay to deliver 3 takeaway orders. Simply doesn't add up.
vulture1 said:
Condi said:
Given the ruling that Uber's drivers are employees and thus entitled to holiday pay, minimum wage etc, then how is Deliveroo different?
Once they have to pay people properly their costs will be much too high for the business to work, you cant pay someone £10 per hour, plus holiday plus pension plus sick pay to deliver 3 takeaway orders. Simply doesn't add up.
Hows it going to work getting paid £10 an hour to stand about. You would literally be able to sign on for a delivery and no incentive to do it fast or even pick any up.Once they have to pay people properly their costs will be much too high for the business to work, you cant pay someone £10 per hour, plus holiday plus pension plus sick pay to deliver 3 takeaway orders. Simply doesn't add up.
a) The “hours” only count when you have accepted a job - I.e. are on the way to the restaurant and then on to the customer.
b) The “rate” for the job is well above min wage if you complete it quickly - I.e. if you work fast and hard then there’s the opportunity to earn well above min wage
c) If (for whatever reason) you don’t earn min wage for the time you’re on jobs, then you’re automatically topped up.
Given that riders can (and do) wait for jobs on multiple platforms at the same time, I can’t see how they are “employed” when just logged in but haven’t accepted a job
brickwall said:
Given that riders can (and do) wait for jobs on multiple platforms at the same time, I can’t see how they are “employed” when just logged in but haven’t accepted a job
Uber are often cars and je are generic, but deliveroo branding is highly visible.Will deliveroo allow other peoples food food to be carried in their bags? Will other companies allow their food to be delivered by a deliveroo branded guy?
If now, bearing in mind cycles, where do they dump the jacket and bags?
brickwall said:
You’d have to structure it such that
a) The “hours” only count when you have accepted a job - I.e. are on the way to the restaurant and then on to the customer.
b) The “rate” for the job is well above min wage if you complete it quickly - I.e. if you work fast and hard then there’s the opportunity to earn well above min wage
c) If (for whatever reason) you don’t earn min wage for the time you’re on jobs, then you’re automatically topped up.
Given that riders can (and do) wait for jobs on multiple platforms at the same time, I can’t see how they are “employed” when just logged in but haven’t accepted a job
I have no idea, but Uber lost their case and have to treat their drivers as "employees" from when the log on to when they log off.a) The “hours” only count when you have accepted a job - I.e. are on the way to the restaurant and then on to the customer.
b) The “rate” for the job is well above min wage if you complete it quickly - I.e. if you work fast and hard then there’s the opportunity to earn well above min wage
c) If (for whatever reason) you don’t earn min wage for the time you’re on jobs, then you’re automatically topped up.
Given that riders can (and do) wait for jobs on multiple platforms at the same time, I can’t see how they are “employed” when just logged in but haven’t accepted a job
Surely must only be a matter of time until other gig economy workers do the same?
hyphen said:
speedy_thrills said:
I've used this service a lot over the last couple of weeks because they give you £10 off any order over £15 for new customers. I've just been singing up for new accounts every time to take advantage of the discount as a "new" customer.
Thanks Deliveroo shareholders.
Do you have a plentiful supply of pay and go sims? Aa would seem incompetent for deliveroo to allow it.Thanks Deliveroo shareholders.
If I was dishonest I'd set up a front-end business with deliveroo "selling" a £15 item then act as new customers purchasing the same item for net £5 and pocket the £10 difference (less the £2.99 delivery fee Deliveroo charge) from each transaction. In effect stealing the new customer subsidy from Deliveroo.
"Incompetence", as you put it, is actually quite normal when you start looking for weaknesses in real world systems. For example the other day I was at the supermarket and noticed Pringles are currently running a competition allowing participants to win an prizes (e.g. Games consoles) by entering a token code from their product, unfortunately the codes are sequential so by purchasing one packet you can enter the competition as often as you'd like.
In some ways I can forgive nascent start-ups like Deliveroo, probably run by a few dreamy kids just looking to make rent, but Pringles is owned by Procter & Gamble who have had ample time and financial resources to hire intelligent people.
My youngest, who was recently wanting a games console spotted the Pringle competition and was asking to enter so she could win one. Naturally, being quite possibly the most boring father on the planet, I asked her to tell me what was in it for Pringle, why were they going to just give away some toys or rather, my favourite question with regards to retail offers: what's their angle?
With the '10% extra for free' one they run every so often the promotion is quite loud and eye catching which suggests to me that it's purpose is to get a consumer to buy a tube when they weren't necessarily going to during that shop, so it's about increasing unit sales is my assumption.
With the competition I don't think it's about encouraging consumer to make a purchase there and then in the same way. I think the intent is the same as it is for all retail competitions which is home invasion. Tricking punters to give away something extremely valuable, their personal information, in exchange for some of no value at all but painted up to look valuable.
What they want is as many names, emails, mobiles etc as possible so they can build a mugs list to then smash directly with product offers or link to social media data and then smash them there.
It's interesting that you spotted that silly oversight and while we all make mistakes and we know companies do and we certainly know some proper duds manage to get jobs they are woefully unequipped for sometimes the error or mistake is deliberate as there is some form of reward that is gained from it and sometimes it's just because it's not important. I wonder with Pringles if it's the latter. They don't care as it's not about getting you to buy a tube of Pringles there and then but about getting you to open the front door to your home so they can smash you with everything they sell 24/7?
I'm guessing with the Deliveroo deal it's aimed at trying to attract either a new customer, get a customer back as well as momentarily taking a transaction from a competitor. The whole discount voucher thing has exploded among key demographics and seems to work well.
I wonder if the Deliveroo just don't care that it can be gamed because a bit like the 'free bet' trick there is still a value to be gained from the small number of consumers who can actually be arsed to set up lots of fake ID's or use other people etc. Even if someone uses the code ten times that ten times you taken trade off a competitor and ten app user events to imprint your app into the consumers mind as their subliminal preference, the one their thumb finds without thinking and that person ends up on without any conscious logic or reasoning.
With the '10% extra for free' one they run every so often the promotion is quite loud and eye catching which suggests to me that it's purpose is to get a consumer to buy a tube when they weren't necessarily going to during that shop, so it's about increasing unit sales is my assumption.
With the competition I don't think it's about encouraging consumer to make a purchase there and then in the same way. I think the intent is the same as it is for all retail competitions which is home invasion. Tricking punters to give away something extremely valuable, their personal information, in exchange for some of no value at all but painted up to look valuable.
What they want is as many names, emails, mobiles etc as possible so they can build a mugs list to then smash directly with product offers or link to social media data and then smash them there.
It's interesting that you spotted that silly oversight and while we all make mistakes and we know companies do and we certainly know some proper duds manage to get jobs they are woefully unequipped for sometimes the error or mistake is deliberate as there is some form of reward that is gained from it and sometimes it's just because it's not important. I wonder with Pringles if it's the latter. They don't care as it's not about getting you to buy a tube of Pringles there and then but about getting you to open the front door to your home so they can smash you with everything they sell 24/7?
I'm guessing with the Deliveroo deal it's aimed at trying to attract either a new customer, get a customer back as well as momentarily taking a transaction from a competitor. The whole discount voucher thing has exploded among key demographics and seems to work well.
I wonder if the Deliveroo just don't care that it can be gamed because a bit like the 'free bet' trick there is still a value to be gained from the small number of consumers who can actually be arsed to set up lots of fake ID's or use other people etc. Even if someone uses the code ten times that ten times you taken trade off a competitor and ten app user events to imprint your app into the consumers mind as their subliminal preference, the one their thumb finds without thinking and that person ends up on without any conscious logic or reasoning.
DonkeyApple said:
I wonder if the Deliveroo just don't care...
They are just prioritising acquisition metrics over financial performance metrics because many, less experienced, investors will only look at the headline unique user growth and not dig any further.It's likely that Pringles [P&G] will use your data to try to harvest information about you to target marketing.
Edited by speedy_thrills on Saturday 17th April 17:10
speedy_thrills said:
DonkeyApple said:
I wonder if the Deliveroo just don't care...
They are just prioritising acquisition metrics over financial performance metrics because many, less experienced, investors will only look at the headline unique user growth and not dig any further.It's likely that Pringles [P&G] will use your data to try to harvest information about you to target marketing.
Edited by speedy_thrills on Saturday 17th April 17:10
DonkeyApple said:
With the competition I don't think it's about encouraging consumer to make a purchase there and then in the same way. I think the intent is the same as it is for all retail competitions which is home invasion. Tricking punters to give away something extremely valuable, their personal information, in exchange for some of no value at all but painted up to look valuable.
What they want is as many names, emails, mobiles etc as possible so they can build a mugs list to then smash directly with product offers or link to social media data and then smash them there.
Pretty much any retail website you go on nowadays, a pop up, pop up with "sign up to our email mailer for 10%/20% off your first order". Most also say "we won't sell your data", they are just desperate for you to remember their name amongst the other competition.What they want is as many names, emails, mobiles etc as possible so they can build a mugs list to then smash directly with product offers or link to social media data and then smash them there.
Some companies, in particular Sports Nutrition companies, have a bizarre sales model. I get 30% off text/emails, then 40% off and continues. I read somewhere all whey protein pretty much comes out of the same huge factory somewhere so guess wholesale cost is very low.
Sadly this has closed now as the promo has finished, back to cheese beans on toast for me. There is a £15 sign-up promo for "getir" that might be taken advantage of in the same way if you are in London zone 1 or 2. Unfortunately I'm out in the boondocks.
I notice Mars Corp. (the people who make Mars bars, Twix, Maltesers etc.) have a flaw in their current promotion that allows participants unlimited coupons for free confectionery. Might be a fun little project to show your children.
This could actually be a whole thread in itself.
I notice Mars Corp. (the people who make Mars bars, Twix, Maltesers etc.) have a flaw in their current promotion that allows participants unlimited coupons for free confectionery. Might be a fun little project to show your children.
This could actually be a whole thread in itself.
speedy_thrills said:
Sadly this has closed now as the promo has finished, back to cheese beans on toast for me. There is a £15 sign-up promo for "getir" that might be taken advantage of in the same way if you are in London zone 1 or 2. Unfortunately I'm out in the boondocks.
I notice Mars Corp. (the people who make Mars bars, Twix, Maltesers etc.) have a flaw in their current promotion that allows participants unlimited coupons for free confectionery. Might be a fun little project to show your children.
This could actually be a whole thread in itself.
I think you should set one up. Sounds fun and especially good for our kids to have a little fun.I notice Mars Corp. (the people who make Mars bars, Twix, Maltesers etc.) have a flaw in their current promotion that allows participants unlimited coupons for free confectionery. Might be a fun little project to show your children.
This could actually be a whole thread in itself.
I help a friend out a few times a week who runs a local deli, the sort of place you can spend 100 quid and only fill 1 bag.
I took a call from Uber Eats this week who along with deliveroo are heavily targeting the retail grocery and non grocery market (chap reckoned he'd signed up a florist in Fulham).
Exclusive service rate was 25% but there was no cap. If he can persuade low volume high value order businesses to get on board and the lazy bourgeois are up for instant goodies them there might be a chance some areas can turn a profit.
I took a call from Uber Eats this week who along with deliveroo are heavily targeting the retail grocery and non grocery market (chap reckoned he'd signed up a florist in Fulham).
Exclusive service rate was 25% but there was no cap. If he can persuade low volume high value order businesses to get on board and the lazy bourgeois are up for instant goodies them there might be a chance some areas can turn a profit.
Interesting pricing attempt.
Effectively they’re trying to add a straight 5% to the customer’s price (for orders £10-40).
Basic economics would say that they will see a reduction in volume as a result. In a market as competitive as theirs I’ll be interested to see if they manage to make it stick.
Effectively they’re trying to add a straight 5% to the customer’s price (for orders £10-40).
Basic economics would say that they will see a reduction in volume as a result. In a market as competitive as theirs I’ll be interested to see if they manage to make it stick.
brickwall said:
In a market as competitive as theirs I’ll be interested to see if they manage to make it stick.
Interestingly I was on YouTube last night, and got an advert for a new entrant in the instant grocery/takeaway delivery market. A Turkish startup called Getir, which is well funded, has chosen London as its first international expansion city.Had a look at their site, £10 min order, normally £1.99 delivery fee but currently waived.
https://getir.com
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Getir
Valued at $800m in Feb 2020
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-02-04...
Venisonpie said:
hyphen said:
Got a free £7 offer, so logged in. And got this pop up...
Is the service fee on top of the delivery fee?Edited by hyphen on Monday 17th May 22:44
I think so.
I ordered last Friday and received free delivery as a promotion but ended up paying a few pounds as a service fee or something.
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