Crypto Currency Thread (Vol.2)

[White-Noise]

halo34 said:

And you show them a little statement, coming from the platform that shows how much you invested, what the gains were and the transactions.

All the platforms also now insist on ID verification as per FCA rules....

Not that hard, once you step off the whole - people who invest in crypto must be idiots

Invest anything anywhere and you have to show proof of funds. If you cant show where your ORGINAL money came from, that's not the fault of the platform.

If you have dodgy transactions showing income in a UK bank account - your just as likely to hit problem.

https://coinledger.io/agencies/does-binance-report...

Noting of course that they do report to HMRC anyway and there are APIs/Apps you can use to generate tax statements for HMRC.

Edited by halo34 on Monday 25th March 16:37

I was thinking about this. If someone had Swiss or offshore accounts there could be things going on that the government can't trace as well. Both have opportunity for misuse. But that's why it's as you state!

[dimots]

Bitcoin and ethereum ETNs officially open for applications.

But only for professional investors lol. Nice one UK.

Must be because this crypto stuff is so dodgy only professionals can use it, right?

https://docs.londonstockexchange.com/sites/default...

[ooid]

White-Noise said:

My friend said he had no issues, showed transfers to and from exchanges from his account when buying his places.

Edited by White-Noise on Monday 25th March 13:41

Well, your friends solicitor/conveyancing office would be in much demand than!

Spoke to him today, he was told the same thing by another firm. He is also self employed (normal U.K. based activities) so it might be also combination of different factors but can't use his crypto profits as a proof of funds.

I would be really curious to see if anyone here gets a mortgage by using Crypto earnings as full deposit. Not sure how banks nowadays going through DD for Crypto based earnings as they have been super anal on all sorts of other things.

[White-Noise]

ooid said:

White-Noise said:

My friend said he had no issues, showed transfers to and from exchanges from his account when buying his places.

Edited by White-Noise on Monday 25th March 13:41

Well, your friends solicitor/conveyancing office would be in much demand than!

Spoke to him today, he was told the same thing by another firm. He is also self employed (normal U.K. based activities) so it might be also combination of different factors but can't use his crypto profits as a proof of funds.

I would be really curious to see if anyone here gets a mortgage by using Crypto earnings as full deposit. Not sure how banks nowadays going through DD for Crypto based earnings as they have been super anal on all sorts of other things.

Hmm, I would think it's a case of firing off a lot of emails to see if anyone will take it. Maybe the lender has an influence as well. My friend bought the places outright.

[Scootersp]

dimots said:

Bitcoin and ethereum ETNs officially open for applications.

But only for professional investors lol. Nice one UK.

Must be because this crypto stuff is so dodgy only professionals can use it, right?

https://docs.londonstockexchange.com/sites/default...

is there an oxymoron in this statement I lifted from investipedia?

"Exchange-traded notes (ETNs) are types of unsecured debt securities that track an underlying index of securities and trade on a major exchange like a stock."

Careful what you wish for, look at this article (just borrow my tin foil hat for a few minutes!) and what has (un?)arguably happened to Gold and so what might happen to Crypto https://reaction.life/dont-forget-the-golden-rule-...

Please note this isn't trying to be a Crypto vs metal point it's a ETF/ETN margin/derivatives point about potential price control, via leveraged short positions, ie you don't need to own anything/much to impact the market. Arguably whatever you think of crypto, until now it would appear (unless the FBI do own it all!) to be a free market, these ETF/ETN's may put paid to that.....

[bloomen]

There were Bitcoin ETNs launched many years before the ETFs arrived.

It seems a teensy bit strange that it's easier to launch pure fiction than something with a dab of the real deal. But I know nothing of these things.

[Mr Whippy]

It’s funny buying synthetic exposure to bitcoin etc, something which has a core feature of holding it securely yourself.

So a professional now buys it for you (at cost), through someone else holding the btc (more cost).

Why wouldn’t you just buy it yourself?

[Seventyseven7]

ooid said:

Question to $hitcoin millionaires out there, how are you planning to purchase a property? No solicitor or conveyancing firm is accepting funds coming from crypto as far as I'm aware in U.K. ?

I converted my money into GBP. I then withdrew to my bank. At the time I did this all via Binance, was very easy to do. This was 2021, I understand Binance are a bit more difficult to deal with now.

I’ve used the GBP to pay off my mortgage. My house is currently being sold, I will use all the funds from the house (700k so not a stcoim millionaire) to purchase my next property.

[ooid]

Seventyseven7 said:

I’ve used the GBP to pay off my mortgage. My house is currently being sold, I will use all the funds from the house (700k so not a stcoim millionaire) to purchase my next property.

That's great congratulations. However, if you see the difference between my point and yours, you will see the situation.

You will sell your house, and for your next purchase -when it will be asked- you can simply show the funding comes straight from the sale of your house in U.K.

If you were buying a property (outright or mortgage) you will be asked to show the source of your funding, and if the funding comes directly from crypto investments, the conveyancers (I've been told) refuse to verify.

It is quite different for simply spending the money you generated from crypto (If you were lucky to do so) or buying a highly regulated asset type like real estate in U.K. (or EU) nowadays.

I'm genuinely interested to hear if people were able to complete a real estate transaction by using their crypto profits/earnings.

Edited by ooid on Monday 25th March 20:25

[Scootersp]

Mr Whippy said:

It’s funny buying synthetic exposure to bitcoin etc, something which has a core feature of holding it securely yourself.

So a professional now buys it for you (at cost), through someone else holding the btc (more cost).

Why wouldn’t you just buy it yourself?

You don't have to remember your phrase? it'll be made easier to transact I presume via the normal trading platforms, which is likely enough to make the shift and let/make/encourage/guide people to 'own' it this way?

I'm with you, just saying what I think the sell is, I'm obviously a bit on the paranoid spectrum in respect of what the real reasoning might be.

[Seventyseven7]

ooid said:

Seventyseven7 said:

I’ve used the GBP to pay off my mortgage. My house is currently being sold, I will use all the funds from the house (700k so not a stcoim millionaire) to purchase my next property.

That's great congratulations. However, if you see the difference between my point and yours, you will see the situation.

You will sell your house, and for your next purchase -when it will be asked- you can simply show the funding comes straight from the sale of your house in U.K.

If you were buying a property (outright or mortgage) you will be asked to show the source of your funding, and if the funding comes directly from crypto investments, the conveyancers (I've been told) refuse to verify.

It is quite different for simply spending the money you generated from crypto (If you were lucky to do so) or buying a highly regulated asset type like real estate in U.K. (or EU) nowadays.

I'm genuinely interested to hear if people were able to complete a real estate transaction by using their crypto profits/earnings.

Edited by ooid on Monday 25th March 20:25

Sorry, yes you’re correct, it’s a different scenario.

I’m sure you can just showing your exchange statements to show where the money has come from though, the same as you do for your stocks.

[bloomen]

ooid said:

If you were buying a property (outright or mortgage) you will be asked to show the source of your funding, and if the funding comes directly from crypto investments, the conveyancers (I've been told) refuse to verify.

I know three people who've bought outright direct from selling the coinage. There were no particular grumbles.

I think they all had established relationships with accountants etc so may have been a known enough quantity.

I wouldn't bother bringing it to the average high street cabbage for the legal stuff.

[Mr Whippy]

Why not just go exchange > bank > ns&i > bank

Source of funding is then ns&i


No fees. And in the scheme of things wrt conveyancing it’s zero time/effort and makes funds appear as if from savings.


Why make this out to be a big issue or problem when it’s easily avoided?

[bloomen]

Mr Whippy said:

Why not just go exchange > bank > ns&i > bank

Source of funding is then ns&i

That's the current location, not the origin aka source.

[CraigyMc]

Mr Whippy said:

Why not just go exchange > bank > ns&i > bank

Source of funding is then ns&i

No fees. And in the scheme of things wrt conveyancing it’s zero time/effort and makes funds appear as if from savings.

Why make this out to be a big issue or problem when it’s easily avoided?

I'd recommend avoiding a career in money laundering investigations.

...okay, maybe it'd work out in Greece.

[RichTT]

Scootersp said:

is there an oxymoron in this statement I lifted from investipedia?

"Exchange-traded notes (ETNs) are types of unsecured debt securities that track an underlying index of securities and trade on a major exchange like a stock."

Careful what you wish for, look at this article (just borrow my tin foil hat for a few minutes!) and what has (un?)arguably happened to Gold and so what might happen to Crypto https://reaction.life/dont-forget-the-golden-rule-...

Please note this isn't trying to be a Crypto vs metal point it's a ETF/ETN margin/derivatives point about potential price control, via leveraged short positions, ie you don't need to own anything/much to impact the market. Arguably whatever you think of crypto, until now it would appear (unless the FBI do own it all!) to be a free market, these ETF/ETN's may put paid to that.....

They are still required to hold the underlying asset in the case of the 'cryptoasset' ETFs for the LSE.

But they'll soon find out that due to volatility, leverage and bitcoin doesn't tend to work out well.

[Blown2CV]

White-Noise said:

halo34 said:

And you show them a little statement, coming from the platform that shows how much you invested, what the gains were and the transactions.

All the platforms also now insist on ID verification as per FCA rules....

Not that hard, once you step off the whole - people who invest in crypto must be idiots

Invest anything anywhere and you have to show proof of funds. If you cant show where your ORGINAL money came from, that's not the fault of the platform.

If you have dodgy transactions showing income in a UK bank account - your just as likely to hit problem.

https://coinledger.io/agencies/does-binance-report...

Noting of course that they do report to HMRC anyway and there are APIs/Apps you can use to generate tax statements for HMRC.

Edited by halo34 on Monday 25th March 16:37

I was thinking about this. If someone had Swiss or offshore accounts there could be things going on that the government can't trace as well. Both have opportunity for misuse. But that's why it's as you state!

but if you showed 'proof of funds' that was just a massive transfer from a Swiss account then would that satisfy the law? I'm not sure.

[ooid]

Blown2CV said:

but if you showed 'proof of funds' that was just a massive transfer from a Swiss account then would that satisfy the law? I'm not sure.

It won't indeed. A hypothetical scenario, 5 figures from a swiss personal account was shown to a solicitor during a house purchase. The source of that figure was asked, (sale of shares) with full details to satisfy both the lender and the solicitor.

What I found interesting, in my friends situation solicitor has no interest of looking at the trail of crypto profits, they simply refuse to deal with it.

[halo34]

Blown2CV said:

but if you showed 'proof of funds' that was just a massive transfer from a Swiss account then would that satisfy the law? I'm not sure.

I suspect you would still have to demonstrate where the original funds came from. In my case I had to show house sale - premium bonds - then deposit.

I find it odd solicitors arent working with it considering you can do HMRC compliant tax returns off an API or platform. If its good enough for HMRC surely?

[CraigyMc]

ooid said:

Blown2CV said:

but if you showed 'proof of funds' that was just a massive transfer from a Swiss account then would that satisfy the law? I'm not sure.

It won't indeed. A hypothetical scenario, 5 figures from a swiss personal account was shown to a solicitor during a house purchase. The source of that figure was asked, (sale of shares) with full details to satisfy both the lender and the solicitor.

What I found interesting, in my friends situation solicitor has no interest of looking at the trail of crypto profits, they simply refuse to deal with it.

The solicitor is regulated, and needs professional indemnity insurance in order to operate. It's entirely feasible that their insurer simply will not cover this type of work.

There are definitely solicitors who do, but as it's an edge case they'll be very likely to charge more for their services, leaving the simpler parts of the market for solicitors/conveyancers that do things in bulk and don't handle exceptions like this. Horses for courses.