Crypto Currency Thread (Vol.2)
Discussion
OoopsVoss said:
1. That's not apparent. A good store of value is something that is immediately cash convertible, with a deep liquidity pool and ultra low price volatility. Anything else isn't.
2. What's a good store if value, not much. Inflation is the problem. Tether if you offloading BTC for a big purchase
3. You were commenting on other people's IQ, not the other way around.
Whilst BTC has many benefits and the decentralised ledger is a great one, I suspect its days are numbered when CBDCs roll out and we see greater use of asset backed tokens.
1. Immediately cash convertible: BTC is. I can buy/sell 24/7 any day of the year. Try that with most other assets. And don't go telling me that I may be forced to sell at a loss. BTC would have to drop below 6k $ for me to be selling at a loss. Not going to happen.2. What's a good store if value, not much. Inflation is the problem. Tether if you offloading BTC for a big purchase
3. You were commenting on other people's IQ, not the other way around.
Whilst BTC has many benefits and the decentralised ledger is a great one, I suspect its days are numbered when CBDCs roll out and we see greater use of asset backed tokens.
Deep liquidity pool: 1.25 trillion $ circulating supply and increasing rapidly. I only need a couple of million to be happy
Ultra low volatility: I don't agree on this and still think it depends on your time frame, as I have explained before. Or do you consider gold not to be a good store of value either because it's price can be volatile?
2. So you're all shouting that BTC is a bad store of value but nobody can come up with something that IS a good store of value?
Then why all the negativity about BTC - crypto without even giving it consideration?
USDT? Nope, nope and nope once again. Centralized and without any clear proof of reserve - collateral. If you want to get f
ked FTX, Celsius,... style then put your money into USDT.3. Let me explain the IQ comment. BTC price evolution shows a clear 4 year cyclical pattern since it's conception in 2008. If you're stupid enough to only invest when prices are going ballistic, just to panic 6 months later and sell at a massive loss you deserve to get wrecked. And you should'nt be investing in crypto because you've not done your research and don't know what you're doing. Wasn't trying to insult anyone on here, BTW.
CBDC: that's the stuff of nightmares. I mean George Orwell's 1984 or China style of government control over everything in your life. No hyperbole. You REALLY don't want that!
Edit: no BTC adoption. please give me your opinion on the recent BTC ETF's?
Edited by ERIKM400 on Thursday 18th April 17:53
ERIKM400 said:
And, by the way: anyone going to defend the fractional reserve banking system?
Because that seems to have gone very quiet after all the initial enthousiasm...
Life is short. Because that seems to have gone very quiet after all the initial enthousiasm...
I stopped reading your post above when you were trying to defend bitcoin as a good store of value because you had bought at 6k and it was now worth 60k, completely ignoring the fact that last week it was 70k. Its clear you've either got your head in the sand or are not half as clever as you think you are. Benefit of the doubt it's the former.
Suspect everyone else feels the same which is why they've stopped replying to your posts.
Fractional reserve banking is very useful, yes it means banks only hold 10% of their assets in cash but that is no accident, its a much more efficient use of capital than the alternative. There is the very remote risk that everyone wants to withdraw money at the same time, but that is why the government backs each bank deposit to the tune of £85k and also performs audits and stress tests of banks to ensure they are robust to both expected and less expected price moves and customer behaviour.
As per the point I've made several times, just because you don't like it or don't understand it doesn't mean it's not useful or beneficial.
Condi said:
Life is short.
I stopped reading your post above when you were trying to defend bitcoin as a good store of value because you had bought at 6k and it was now worth 60k, completely ignoring the fact that last week it was 70k. Its clear you've either got your head in the sand or are not half as clever as you think you are. Benefit of the doubt it's the former.
Suspect everyone else feels the same which is why they've stopped replying to your posts.
Fractional reserve banking is very useful, yes it means banks only hold 10% of their assets in cash but that is no accident, its a much more efficient use of capital than the alternative. There is the very remote risk that everyone wants to withdraw money at the same time, but that is why the government backs each bank deposit to the tune of £85k and also performs audits and stress tests of banks to ensure they are robust to both expected and less expected price moves and customer behaviour.
As per the point I've made several times, just because you don't like it or don't understand it doesn't mean it's not useful or beneficial.
10% reserve? Not in the UK. Each 'bank deposit' is not backed to £85k, only FSCS banks. Couldn't find an up to date list but many have gone or have been eaten by larger banks.I stopped reading your post above when you were trying to defend bitcoin as a good store of value because you had bought at 6k and it was now worth 60k, completely ignoring the fact that last week it was 70k. Its clear you've either got your head in the sand or are not half as clever as you think you are. Benefit of the doubt it's the former.
Suspect everyone else feels the same which is why they've stopped replying to your posts.
Fractional reserve banking is very useful, yes it means banks only hold 10% of their assets in cash but that is no accident, its a much more efficient use of capital than the alternative. There is the very remote risk that everyone wants to withdraw money at the same time, but that is why the government backs each bank deposit to the tune of £85k and also performs audits and stress tests of banks to ensure they are robust to both expected and less expected price moves and customer behaviour.
As per the point I've made several times, just because you don't like it or don't understand it doesn't mean it's not useful or beneficial.
Far safer to store your money in bitcoin than any bank.
Condi said:
Life is short.
I stopped reading your post above when you were trying to defend bitcoin as a good store of value because you had bought at 6k and it was now worth 60k, completely ignoring the fact that last week it was 70k. Its clear you've either got your head in the sand or are not half as clever as you think you are. Benefit of the doubt it's the former.
Suspect everyone else feels the same which is why they've stopped replying to your posts.
Fractional reserve banking is very useful, yes it means banks only hold 10% of their assets in cash but that is no accident, its a much more efficient use of capital than the alternative. There is the very remote risk that everyone wants to withdraw money at the same time, but that is why the government backs each bank deposit to the tune of £85k and also performs audits and stress tests of banks to ensure they are robust to both expected and less expected price moves and customer behaviour.
As per the point I've made several times, just because you don't like it or don't understand it doesn't mean it's not useful or beneficial.
Getting personal again, are we?I stopped reading your post above when you were trying to defend bitcoin as a good store of value because you had bought at 6k and it was now worth 60k, completely ignoring the fact that last week it was 70k. Its clear you've either got your head in the sand or are not half as clever as you think you are. Benefit of the doubt it's the former.
Suspect everyone else feels the same which is why they've stopped replying to your posts.
Fractional reserve banking is very useful, yes it means banks only hold 10% of their assets in cash but that is no accident, its a much more efficient use of capital than the alternative. There is the very remote risk that everyone wants to withdraw money at the same time, but that is why the government backs each bank deposit to the tune of £85k and also performs audits and stress tests of banks to ensure they are robust to both expected and less expected price moves and customer behaviour.
As per the point I've made several times, just because you don't like it or don't understand it doesn't mean it's not useful or beneficial.
Please argue with facts, not opinions.
Go ahead: explain the 2008 banking crisis and prove me wrong.
Or the recent Silvergate, Silicon Valley and Signature Bank collaps in the US.
Not at all, everything I wrote was fact....
You claimed BTC was good store of value and tried to justify that because its worth more today than it was when you bought it, but ignored the fact its down 15% in a week. Fact.
You then asked about fractional banking and I said its a more efficient use of capital. Fact.
As for your comments about 2008 crash, SVB etc, what about them? The system worked perfectly and nobody lost any money in any of those events. Fact. Banks now are considerably more robust as a consequence of lessons learnt from 2008/2009. Fact.
If you want to disagree please do so, but argue with facts not opinions.
You claimed BTC was good store of value and tried to justify that because its worth more today than it was when you bought it, but ignored the fact its down 15% in a week. Fact.
You then asked about fractional banking and I said its a more efficient use of capital. Fact.
As for your comments about 2008 crash, SVB etc, what about them? The system worked perfectly and nobody lost any money in any of those events. Fact. Banks now are considerably more robust as a consequence of lessons learnt from 2008/2009. Fact.
If you want to disagree please do so, but argue with facts not opinions.
dimots said:
10% reserve? Not in the UK. Each 'bank deposit' is not backed to £85k, only FSCS banks. Couldn't find an up to date list but many have gone or have been eaten by larger banks.
To be a bank requires holding a banking licence and being part of the FSCS, so any bank deposits are protected up to 85k. There are, as far as I am aware, no banks in the UK accepting customer deposits which are not members of the FSCS, unless you can point to any? Condi said:
To be a bank requires holding a banking licence and being part of the FSCS, so any bank deposits are protected up to 85k. There are, as far as I am aware, no banks in the UK accepting customer deposits which are not members of the FSCS, unless you can point to any?
The FSCS covers £85,000 of savings per individual, per financial institution. Halifax and Saga are both owned by Bank of Scotland for example.https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/-/media/boe/files/...
dimots said:
The FSCS covers £85,000 of savings per individual, per financial institution. Halifax and Saga are both owned by Bank of Scotland for example.
https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/-/media/boe/files/...
It's not really a big problem for most people, but yes, multiple brands can operate under one licence. We are getting into rather specific circumstances though, but as a single sentence "All customer deposits are protected up to £85k" is pretty accurate! https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/-/media/boe/files/...
Condi said:
Not at all, everything I wrote was fact....
You claimed BTC was good store of value and tried to justify that because its worth more today than it was when you bought it, but ignored the fact its down 15% in a week. Fact.
You then asked about fractional banking and I said its a more efficient use of capital. Fact.
As for your comments about 2008 crash, SVB etc, what about them? The system worked perfectly and nobody lost any money in any of those events. Fact. Banks now are considerably more robust as a consequence of lessons learnt from 2008/2009. Fact.
If you want to disagree please do so, but argue with facts not opinions.
1. Read your post 3 times. Facts found: zero. All personal opinion.You claimed BTC was good store of value and tried to justify that because its worth more today than it was when you bought it, but ignored the fact its down 15% in a week. Fact.
You then asked about fractional banking and I said its a more efficient use of capital. Fact.
As for your comments about 2008 crash, SVB etc, what about them? The system worked perfectly and nobody lost any money in any of those events. Fact. Banks now are considerably more robust as a consequence of lessons learnt from 2008/2009. Fact.
If you want to disagree please do so, but argue with facts not opinions.
2. My 6k $ BTC investment is now 60k $. Fact. Even if it was 73k $ a week ago. Don't care. Will be 250k $ soon.
3. The banking system worked perfectly????
I don't have enough
available for this.If the central banks had not stepped in printing massive amounts of fiat the whole banking system would have gone down the drain.
Nobody lost money in this????
That just proves how little of the monetary system you really understand.
And once again: please explain the root couse of the 2008 banking system becouse you still have not answered my question.
Condi said:
It's not really a big problem for most people, but yes, multiple brands can operate under one licence. We are getting into rather specific circumstances though, but as a single sentence "All customer deposits are protected up to £85k" is pretty accurate!
No it isn’t accurate. ‘One customer account up to £85k per FSCS registered banking group’ would be accurate.ERIKM400 said:
2. My 6k $ BTC investment is now 60k $. Fact. Even if it was 73k $ a week ago. Don't care. Will be 250k $ soon.
ERIKM400 said:
BTC is not a good store of value because of volatility?
That just depends on your timeframe.
The timeframe you've held it for is entirely irrelevant to the point you were trying to make earlier about Btc being a good store of value. Anything which drops 20%+ in a week is clearly not a good store of value. "Store of value" is not an abstract concept, it's something which can be measured via volatility. That just depends on your timeframe.
ERIKM400 said:
3. The banking system worked perfectly????
I don't have enough available for this.
If the central banks had not stepped in printing massive amounts of fiat the whole banking system would have gone down the drain.
Nobody lost money in this????
That just proves how little of the monetary system you really understand.
And once again: please explain the root couse of the 2008 banking system becouse you still have not answered my question.
The consumer protections worked perfectly, yes. No deposit holder lost a single cent as a result of banks not holding 100% cover for their deposit accounts. What more could you ask for? I don't have enough
available for this.If the central banks had not stepped in printing massive amounts of fiat the whole banking system would have gone down the drain.
Nobody lost money in this????
That just proves how little of the monetary system you really understand.
And once again: please explain the root couse of the 2008 banking system becouse you still have not answered my question.
As for the root cause of the 2008 sub-prime mortgage crisis, it was caused by banks repackaging mortgage debt into ever more mixed and complicated instruments which were then rated incorrectly by the ratings agency's, (at best because it was confusing and complicated, at worst because they were being paid by the seller and rated them however they were asked to rate them). Once house prices stopped going up then there was more risk that some of this debt wouldn't get repaid and the credit-worthiness of the debt inside the instruments became more important. It was found that what had been sold as A rated debt wasn't really A rated debt, causing the instruments to be worth less than initially expected. This then spilled over into the wider banking system, but, importantly, no deposit holders of any bank in the UK lost money. Even deposit holders who had placed money in Icelandic banks which from memory were not covered by FSCS as it was offshore were covered by the UK Government!!
ERIKM400 said:
Please argue with facts, not opinions.
For someone who likes facts, this is pretty opinionated...! ERIKM400 said:
2. My 6k $ BTC investment is now 60k $. Fact. Even if it was 73k $ a week ago. Don't care. Will be 250k $ soon.
Edited by Condi on Thursday 18th April 19:54
dimots said:
Bitcoin is not integrated with the mainstream system. It has to transfer value from the system to on-chain. The more value transferred the better.
Bitcoin is private enough with good opsec. It can be made more private with wallets that do coinjoin.
The guy claimed it is perfectly safe to reveal personal data online. It’s not.
The only stats that matter are hash rate and total value locked.
No it isn't, as I've proven in here multiple times. It's not private. You have severe cognitive dissonance with Bitcoin.Bitcoin is private enough with good opsec. It can be made more private with wallets that do coinjoin.
The guy claimed it is perfectly safe to reveal personal data online. It’s not.
The only stats that matter are hash rate and total value locked.
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