Crypto Currency Thread (Vol.2)

[Northernboy]

Seventyseven7 said:

Of course i tell him that, it would be a huge tax bill as well. Let's see what happens though

What do you mean? It’s you. Why are you asking about breaking the law rather than paying what you should?

[whatxd]

Seventyseven7 said:

Seventyseven7 said:

whatxd said:

Seventyseven7 said:

Yep surely they are too busy. It's not exactly large payment, 4.5k a month. I'm pretty sure Binance don't hand over any info to HMRC at the moment and coinbase only handed over user data from people who made 5k+ transactions.

How will the taxman find out? (Asking for my friend)

There are multiple reddit threads from 2019 with hmrc sending letters to people wanting info from 2017. I certainly won't be taking the chance.

You got any links? Or do you know what the outcome was of these letters?

FWIW I just searched ‘HMRC Letter’ on the Bitcoin UK subreddit and it returned 5 results from the last 3 years with a subreddit of over 15k members.

Only 2 of them was actually questioning them about their crypto tax and both people reported high withdrawals from Coinbase

There are many more examples across the different crypto subreddits but the number is irrelevant really. It’s doesn’t matter if there’s one or a thousand. The fact they’re out there is all you need to know. I think it’s safe to assume that not everyone who receives a letter, or hardly any, will talk about it on Reddit.

If you haven’t paid CGT and you get a letter from HMRC, it’s only going to end one way. Would your “friend” get away with it? No one knows, the only way to find out is to keep your gob shut and hope nothing ever comes of it. You’re hardly going to find examples of people posting about getting away with not paying online, are you?

If you’ve made life or situation changing money, why take the chance? you get to keep most of it and you can sleep soundly at night with your new found freedom.

[whatxd]

Northernboy said:

What do you mean? It’s you. Why are you asking about breaking the law rather than paying what you should?

Aren’t you Kent Border Kenny though? If so, you’d know all about having multiple aliases

[Buprenorphine chic]

Nah, Kenny had a McLaren 650s.
Wait...

[jammy-git]

whatxd said:

There are many more examples across the different crypto subreddits but the number is irrelevant really. It’s doesn’t matter if there’s one or a thousand. The fact they’re out there is all you need to know. I think it’s safe to assume that not everyone who receives a letter, or hardly any, will talk about it on Reddit.

If you haven’t paid CGT and you get a letter from HMRC, it’s only going to end one way. Would your “friend” get away with it? No one knows, the only way to find out is to keep your gob shut and hope nothing ever comes of it. You’re hardly going to find examples of people posting about getting away with not paying online, are you?

If you’ve made life or situation changing money, why take the chance? you get to keep most of it and you can sleep soundly at night with your new found freedom.

There's a lot of stories of the TV licensing people going around in vans with aerials on the roof to see who was receiving terrestrial TV signals into their living rooms too.

[pquinn]

Seventyseven7 said:

Yep surely they are too busy. It's not exactly large payment, 4.5k a month. I'm pretty sure Binance don't hand over any info to HMRC at the moment and coinbase only handed over user data from people who made 5k+ transactions.

How will the taxman find out? (Asking for my friend)

Well let's assume Binance et al don't reveal any info - they don't want anyone looking too closely at their numbers...

Sooner or later you'll be turning it back from magic beans into real money at which point they'll definitely know what where and how you have cash arriving. Unless your banking is very obscure and isn't aware of your tax residency they'll be reporting back to HMRC - at least mine do including the offshore stuff.

So at the very least you'll have cash income to explain, and they'll probably ask for how it was generated. You could lie but I've seen first hand the pain that people get into when they get too creative.

On the upside it's only HMRC rather than a nasty tax authority - the Germans are harsh and agrgessive and fast to act and properly fk you over at the least provocation.

[pquinn]

Condi said:

Anyway, has Titan been mentioned yet? Stablecoin which went from $65 to $0? Not so stable after all. People now calling for "regulation"

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-06-17...

Wonder if this one will be the thing that finally catches up with Mark Cuban?

Still waiting for the big one to pop, Titan is minor stuff in the grand scheme.

[Seventyseven7]

Northernboy said:

Seventyseven7 said:

Of course i tell him that, it would be a huge tax bill as well. Let's see what happens though

What do you mean? It’s you. Why are you asking about breaking the law rather than paying what you should?

It's not me, i pay all my tax thank you very much

[Seventyseven7]

whatxd said:

Seventyseven7 said:

Seventyseven7 said:

whatxd said:

Seventyseven7 said:

Yep surely they are too busy. It's not exactly large payment, 4.5k a month. I'm pretty sure Binance don't hand over any info to HMRC at the moment and coinbase only handed over user data from people who made 5k+ transactions.

How will the taxman find out? (Asking for my friend)

There are multiple reddit threads from 2019 with hmrc sending letters to people wanting info from 2017. I certainly won't be taking the chance.

You got any links? Or do you know what the outcome was of these letters?

FWIW I just searched ‘HMRC Letter’ on the Bitcoin UK subreddit and it returned 5 results from the last 3 years with a subreddit of over 15k members.

Only 2 of them was actually questioning them about their crypto tax and both people reported high withdrawals from Coinbase

There are many more examples across the different crypto subreddits but the number is irrelevant really. It’s doesn’t matter if there’s one or a thousand. The fact they’re out there is all you need to know. I think it’s safe to assume that not everyone who receives a letter, or hardly any, will talk about it on Reddit.

If you haven’t paid CGT and you get a letter from HMRC, it’s only going to end one way. Would your “friend” get away with it? No one knows, the only way to find out is to keep your gob shut and hope nothing ever comes of it. You’re hardly going to find examples of people posting about getting away with not paying online, are you?

If you’ve made life or situation changing money, why take the chance? you get to keep most of it and you can sleep soundly at night with your new found freedom.

You make a good point.

As mentioned how can you calculate the correct tax to pay, when some of the exchanges are no longer around/a lot has been done with privacy coins so you can no longer track the transactions to find the source etc.

Could you just say 'I'm withdrawing 500k, heres 100k in tax' ?

[Seventyseven7]

pquinn said:

Seventyseven7 said:

Yep surely they are too busy. It's not exactly large payment, 4.5k a month. I'm pretty sure Binance don't hand over any info to HMRC at the moment and coinbase only handed over user data from people who made 5k+ transactions.

How will the taxman find out? (Asking for my friend)

Well let's assume Binance et al don't reveal any info - they don't want anyone looking too closely at their numbers...

Sooner or later you'll be turning it back from magic beans into real money at which point they'll definitely know what where and how you have cash arriving. Unless your banking is very obscure and isn't aware of your tax residency they'll be reporting back to HMRC - at least mine do including the offshore stuff.

So at the very least you'll have cash income to explain, and they'll probably ask for how it was generated. You could lie but I've seen first hand the pain that people get into when they get too creative.

On the upside it's only HMRC rather than a nasty tax authority - the Germans are harsh and agrgessive and fast to act and properly fk you over at the least provocation.

The bank will report to the HMRC if someone has 4.5k hit their bank every month? I highly doubt that.....

[Mr Whippy]

Seventyseven7 said:

You make a good point.

As mentioned how can you calculate the correct tax to pay, when some of the exchanges are no longer around/a lot has been done with privacy coins so you can no longer track the transactions to find the source etc.

Could you just say 'I'm withdrawing 500k, heres 100k in tax' ?

I’ll be ringing HMRC shortly to ask that for 20/21 cap gains return.

I did what would have for within CGT allowance but then a property sale that would be otherwise charged at 28% came in, so that’s bumped the crypto gain into being declared.

Three forks in BTC, then trading/holding those splits, then buying into some (BTG) to get enough to sell out!, etc.

The ‘gain trail’ as is call it is vast.

Much easier to just say you bought it all at zero, notionally, and then pay 20pc.

For anyone who did buy at like 1% of sale price or lower, then it really is small change and makes calculating it easy.


Personally I think HMRC would prefer this as it makes it easier for people to pay.

In my case I didn’t bother documenting as it was peanuts in 2015, and I never thought the gains would be vast, and would always fit in allowance, so no problems.
But that can easily change (as have rules since 2015), so yeah.

20pc on crypto gains/withdrawals, rather than actual cap gains calcs, would be very nice.

[Condi]

Seventyseven7 said:

You make a good point.

As mentioned how can you calculate the correct tax to pay, when some of the exchanges are no longer around/a lot has been done with privacy coins so you can no longer track the transactions to find the source etc.

Could you just say 'I'm withdrawing 500k, heres 100k in tax' ?

Utterly unbelievable people are wondering why governments and regulators are not keen on crypto then 2 pages later discussing how to hide tax obligations from the government using crypto...


Remember the difference between tax evasion and tax avoidance is the width of a cell wall.

[jammy-git]

Condi said:

Utterly unbelievable people are wondering why governments and regulators are not keen on crypto then 2 pages later discussing how to hide tax obligations from the government using crypto...


Remember the difference between tax evasion and tax avoidance is the width of a cell wall.

It's not using crypto though is it? It's just gains from crypto. In much the same way that I bet the vast majority of people probably wouldn't think to notify HMRC if they made a few thousand profit on selling a car.

[anonymous-user]

jammy-git said:

I bet the vast majority of people probably wouldn't think to notify HMRC if they made a few thousand profit on selling a car.

you don't have to, cars are exempt, unless you are purposely buying to make a profit as in trading....

[Condi]

jammy-git said:

It's not using crypto though is it? It's just gains from crypto.

The post I quoted deliberately mentions "privacy coins" as a way of hiding what moves where.

[Northernboy]

Condi said:

Utterly unbelievable people are wondering why governments and regulators are not keen on crypto then 2 pages later discussing how to hide tax obligations from the government using crypto...


Remember the difference between tax evasion and tax avoidance is the width of a cell wall.

How many years is it now that people have been saying that it'll move out of the shadows and operate like other currencies do? Has to be close to ten, and yes, proponents are still using it to illegally avoid taxes.

[dimots]

Northernboy said:

How many years is it now that people have been saying that it'll move out of the shadows and operate like other currencies do? Has to be close to ten, and yes, proponents are still using it to illegally avoid taxes.

That is an utterly pathetic argument and you know it. Currencies have NOTHING to do with tax evasion. This is a straw man just like the KYC argument.

[Northernboy]

dimots said:

That is an utterly pathetic argument and you know it. Currencies have NOTHING to do with tax evasion. This is a straw man just like the KYC argument.

There is a post above literally asking how likely someone is to get found out if they evade taxes on their cryptocurency gains.

[dimots]

Northernboy said:

There is a post above literally asking how likely someone is to get found out if they evade taxes on their cryptocurency gains.

And you stated that cryptocurrencies should move out of the shadows and operate like other currencies do. Explain what that statement means. Break it down for us in reference to tax evasion.

[halo34]

What happens if you have a load of shares that grow in year and they exceed the threshold, does it automatically deduct or is it down to the person to submit the numbers to HMRC?