Crypto Currency Thread (Vol.2)
Discussion
halo34 said:
What happens if you have a load of shares that grow in year and they exceed the threshold, does it automatically deduct or is it down to the person to submit the numbers to HMRC?
Capital gains on shares are based on the price you buy and sell. There's no tax while they continue to be held. You include them on your tax return when sold, but HMRC will have access to the numbers anyway.The reason posters such as the above like the idea of gains in cryptocurrency is that there is no such reporting. It's pretty clear that despite a lot of those hyping cryptocurrencies beaing left-leaning that their politics take a swift turn to the right when they themselves become liable for taxes.
dimots said:
And you stated that cryptocurrencies should move out of the shadows and operate like other currencies do. Explain what that statement means. Break it down for us in reference to tax evasion.
Easy. So, one of the main functions of the entire global financial system is to record where money moves. From who to who. That is a key part of law enforcement. Most frequently the responsibility falls on the banks to ensure that money does not move in "suspicious" or illegal ways. It also (in terms of tax evasion) enables HMRC or whoever else to look at your transactions and form their own conclusions as to what money was due to them.
If someone is able to use privacy coins or any other way of deliberately "hiding" money from the tax authorities which means their job is harder or impossible then no government in the world is going to support that.
Northernboy said:
Capital gains on shares are based on the price you buy and sell. There's no tax while they continue to be held. You include them on your tax return when sold, but HMRC will have access to the numbers anyway.
The reason posters such as the above like the idea of gains in cryptocurrency is that there is no such reporting. It's pretty clear that despite a lot of those hyping cryptocurrencies beaing left-leaning that their politics take a swift turn to the right when they themselves become liable for taxes.
Yes there is. Have you ever used cryptocurrency? Did you mate sell his bitcoin and pay tax on his billions or is he moving to El Salvador?The reason posters such as the above like the idea of gains in cryptocurrency is that there is no such reporting. It's pretty clear that despite a lot of those hyping cryptocurrencies beaing left-leaning that their politics take a swift turn to the right when they themselves become liable for taxes.
You are making stuff up to fit your agenda. The reporting for tax purposes on bitcoin is better than any bank system, better than cash, better than any money humanity has ever devised. You are speaking from a position of ignorance.
Condi said:
Easy.
So, one of the main functions of the entire global financial system is to record where money moves. From who to who. That is a key part of law enforcement. Most frequently the responsibility falls on the banks to ensure that money does not move in "suspicious" or illegal ways. It also (in terms of tax evasion) enables HMRC or whoever else to look at your transactions and form their own conclusions as to what money was due to them.
If someone is able to use privacy coins or any other way of deliberately "hiding" money from the tax authorities which means their job is harder or impossible then no government in the world is going to support that.
You know bitcoin does this without breaking a sweat? No banks required. Permanent unhackable public ledger.So, one of the main functions of the entire global financial system is to record where money moves. From who to who. That is a key part of law enforcement. Most frequently the responsibility falls on the banks to ensure that money does not move in "suspicious" or illegal ways. It also (in terms of tax evasion) enables HMRC or whoever else to look at your transactions and form their own conclusions as to what money was due to them.
If someone is able to use privacy coins or any other way of deliberately "hiding" money from the tax authorities which means their job is harder or impossible then no government in the world is going to support that.
dimots said:
Yes there is. Have you ever used cryptocurrency? Did you mate sell his bitcoin and pay tax on his billions or is he moving to El Salvador?
You are making stuff up to fit your agenda. The reporting for tax purposes on bitcoin is better than any bank system, better than cash, better than any money humanity has ever devised. You are speaking from a position of ignorance.
Go on then, who's reporting bitcoin transaction to HMRC?You are making stuff up to fit your agenda. The reporting for tax purposes on bitcoin is better than any bank system, better than cash, better than any money humanity has ever devised. You are speaking from a position of ignorance.
Northernboy said:
Capital gains on shares are based on the price you buy and sell. There's no tax while they continue to be held. You include them on your tax return when sold, but HMRC will have access to the numbers anyway.
The reason posters such as the above like the idea of gains in cryptocurrency is that there is no such reporting. It's pretty clear that despite a lot of those hyping cryptocurrencies beaing left-leaning that their politics take a swift turn to the right when they themselves become liable for taxes.
How did your "mate" get on with his 15000 BTC? You posted about it last year when you were logged in to your Kent Border Kenny account. Don't go shy on us, let us know what happened. The reason posters such as the above like the idea of gains in cryptocurrency is that there is no such reporting. It's pretty clear that despite a lot of those hyping cryptocurrencies beaing left-leaning that their politics take a swift turn to the right when they themselves become liable for taxes.
dimots said:
You know bitcoin does this without breaking a sweat? No banks required. Permanent unhackable public ledger.
Yet there is no record of who owns what wallet.... So while you can see where it goes, you have no way of connecting that with the people who are moving it to. And then you can transfer your bitcoins to heaps of other coins on exchange accounts you can set up with just an email address, including moving it to coins such as Monaro which are specifically designed to be anonymous.
If Bitcoin or crypto was so transparent and open then it wouldn't be so commonly used by criminals.
Condi said:
Yet there is no record of who owns what wallet.... So while you can see where it goes, you have no way of connecting that with the people who are moving it to.
And then you can transfer your bitcoins to heaps of other coins on exchange accounts you can set up with just an email address, including moving it to coins such as Monaro which are specifically designed to be anonymous.
If Bitcoin or crypto was so transparent and open then it wouldn't be so commonly used by criminals.
So what? This is where the straw man argument comes in. If YOU are eligible for tax YOU pay tax. If YOU need to do KYC then YOU do the KYC. You meaning an individual, a company, or whatever. Accountability is the same. Transferring money into other currencies would have to be hidden, computer forensices could easily trace that if you are collared for suspected tax evasion.And then you can transfer your bitcoins to heaps of other coins on exchange accounts you can set up with just an email address, including moving it to coins such as Monaro which are specifically designed to be anonymous.
If Bitcoin or crypto was so transparent and open then it wouldn't be so commonly used by criminals.
This is just a nonsense argument.
dimots said:
So what? This is where the straw man argument comes in. If YOU are eligible for tax YOU pay tax. If YOU need to do KYC then YOU do the KYC. You meaning an individual, a company, or whatever. Accountability is the same. Transferring money into other currencies would have to be hidden, computer forensices could easily trace that if you are collared for suspected tax evasion.
This is just a nonsense argument.
And yet, as above, we have someone anly this morning asking how likely their "friend" is to get caught if they don't declare their gains, so despite your protestations, that's exactly what people are planning to do.This is just a nonsense argument.
Have you put your gains down on a tax return and paid tax on them yet, or have you not actually realised enough money for that to have been necessary?
Northernboy said:
And yet, as above, we have someone anly this morning asking how likely their "friend" is to get caught if they don't declare their gains, so despite your protestations, that's exactly what people are planning to do.
Have you put your gains down on a tax return and paid tax on them yet, or have you not actually realised enough money for that to have been necessary?
I am moving to El Salvador next week and it's legal tender there so nothing to pay Have you put your gains down on a tax return and paid tax on them yet, or have you not actually realised enough money for that to have been necessary?
pquinn said:
Condi said:
Anyway, has Titan been mentioned yet? Stablecoin which went from $65 to $0? Not so stable after all. People now calling for "regulation" 
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-06-17...
Wonder if this one will be the thing that finally catches up with Mark Cuban? https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-06-17...
Still waiting for the big one to pop, Titan is minor stuff in the grand scheme.
If this ever happens to Tether the whole house of cards is going to collapse.
dimots said:
If YOU are eligible for tax YOU pay tax. If YOU need to do KYC then YOU do the KYC. You meaning an individual, a company, or whatever. Accountability is the same.
If everyone was an honest individual who paid all their taxes voluntarily then HMRC would have a much easier life! As it is, they don't, and we have a whole load of laws to ensure that as much tax as possible is collected at source - PAYE, Contractors scheme etc. All of this is made possible by the financial system and regulation you are deliberately trying to avoid.
Northernboy said:
Capital gains on shares are based on the price you buy and sell. There's no tax while they continue to be held. You include them on your tax return when sold, but HMRC will have access to the numbers anyway.
The reason posters such as the above like the idea of gains in cryptocurrency is that there is no such reporting. It's pretty clear that despite a lot of those hyping cryptocurrencies beaing left-leaning that their politics take a swift turn to the right when they themselves become liable for taxes.
Equally I could start a car wash and pocket 50% of the money and not claim it to the tax man. The transaction isn't traceable.The reason posters such as the above like the idea of gains in cryptocurrency is that there is no such reporting. It's pretty clear that despite a lot of those hyping cryptocurrencies beaing left-leaning that their politics take a swift turn to the right when they themselves become liable for taxes.
There are many ways people can try and wriggle in the system no matter what form it takes.
Ultimately HMRC may just simply ask banks to provide them records from any exchange source and ask people from that direction.
halo34 said:
Equally I could start a car wash and pocket 50% of the money and not claim it to the tax man. The transaction isn't traceable.
it isn't but large sums of actual cash outside of a bank account is not really that useful - can't make any large purchases easily - as soon as you try to deposit it the questions will begin!andy ted said:
it isn't but large sums of actual cash outside of a bank account is not really that useful - can't make any large purchases easily - as soon as you try to deposit it the questions will begin!
Isn't that the case with crypto tho in a way, you need to convert to FIAT therefore it will come from the exchange to your bank in some shape or form?I get what you mean about large purchases but my point was more in effect Crypto isnt the only way in which you could attempt to hide from your duty to report.
halo34 said:
Isn't that the case with crypto tho in a way, you need to convert to FIAT therefore it will come from the exchange to your bank in some shape or form?
I get what you mean about large purchases but my point was more in effect Crypto isnt the only way in which you could attempt to hide from your duty to report.
Indeed it's not that different. The funniest thing of all is that banks rely on SSL and HTTPS to secure their digital transactions and those are encryption technologies. If they had been using encryption prior to 1995 they would have been committing a crime I get what you mean about large purchases but my point was more in effect Crypto isnt the only way in which you could attempt to hide from your duty to report.
The very technologies the banks use to secure your credit card transactions are ones that cypherpunks fought to liberate!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Export_of_cryptograp...
Bitcoin is the end game, all this talk of banks doing the job just as well is b
ks.dimots said:
If they had been using encryption prior to 1995 they would have been committing a crime
Nonsense.dimots said:
Bitcoin is the end game, all this talk of banks doing the job just as well is bks.
More nonsense. Bitcoin cannot sustain a fraction of the transaction rates that banks routinely see. Not for nothing do I call cryptocurrencies "Dunning-Krugerands".ks.halo34 said:
Isn't that the case with crypto tho in a way, you need to convert to FIAT therefore it will come from the exchange to your bank in some shape or form?
I get what you mean about large purchases but my point was more in effect Crypto isnt the only way in which you could attempt to hide from your duty to report.
Not according to some on here; the day's just around the corner where you can use crypto directly in all sorts of purchases. I get what you mean about large purchases but my point was more in effect Crypto isnt the only way in which you could attempt to hide from your duty to report.
dimots said:
Indeed it's not that different. The funniest thing of all is that banks rely on SSL and HTTPS to secure their digital transactions and those are encryption technologies. If they had been using encryption prior to 1995 they would have been committing a crime
The very technologies the banks use to secure your credit card transactions are ones that cypherpunks fought to liberate!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Export_of_cryptograp...
Bitcoin is the end game, all this talk of banks doing the job just as well is bks.
And yet for all your years of hyping it, you didn't believe in it enough yourself to invest even the small amount that would by now have made you liable to tax on it.The very technologies the banks use to secure your credit card transactions are ones that cypherpunks fought to liberate!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Export_of_cryptograp...
Bitcoin is the end game, all this talk of banks doing the job just as well is b
ks.What's the story there, did you really not believe what you were posting?
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