Crypto Currency Thread (Vol.2)
Discussion
ker haha.
The Spruce Goose said:
looks like a cold storage exchange wallet.
Could be. Not typical exchange wallet transfers but could conceivably be some kind of backup.Here's the Bitfinex cold wallet for example:
https://bitinfocharts.com/bitcoin/wallet/Bitfinex-...
God love Matt Levine (Bloomberg opinion writer)
Matt Levine said:
If you are doing crime, Bitcoin has a lot of advantages over U.S. dollars. You can store and transfer money anonymously without permission, without going through the know-your-customer procedures and anti-money-laundering checks of the U.S. banking system; also the transfers are more or less irreversible, so U.S. authorities can’t just go to your bank and tell it to reverse a payment to you. And Bitcoin is fairly useful: You can use it to pay for some things (particularly things that criminals might want), and if you want other things you can turn Bitcoin into regular currency fairly easily.
There are disadvantages, though. Bitcoin transactions are recorded on a public ledger, so the authorities can track payments to you and try to get them back. (By arresting you, or hacking your password or whatever.) And so the Federal Bureau of Investigation was able to trace the money that the Colonial Pipeline hackers got from a ransomware attack and get most of it back. Also Bitcoin is less useful than dollars: Its price is volatile, and you will generally have to convert it into regular currency to buy a sandwich.
Here is a fun Financial Times story about Monero, a “privacy coin” that is sort of like Bitcoin but untraceable:
While bitcoin leaves a visible trail of transactions on its underlying blockchain, the niche “privacy coin” monero was designed to obscure the sender and receiver, as well as the amount exchanged.
As a result, it has become an increasingly sought-after tool for criminals such as ransomware gangs, posing new problems for law enforcement.
So that is an obvious advantage over Bitcoin, which means that if you are doing crime you should — arguably — prefer Monero to Bitcoin. And some criminals do:
Russia-linked REvil, the notorious ransomware group believed to be behind the attack earlier this month on meatpacker JBS, has removed the option of paying in bitcoin this year, demanding monero only, according to Brett Callow, threat analyst at Emsisoft.
Meanwhile both DarkSide, the group blamed for the Colonial Pipeline hack, and Babuk, which was behind the attack on the Washington DC Police earlier this year, allow payments in either cryptocurrency, but charge a 10 to 20 per cent premium to victims paying in riskier bitcoin, experts say.
I have written before about my fascination with, like, the back-office functions at ransomware groups. Specifically I wrote about DarkSide’s compliance department, which apparently decided that (1) hacking into computer systems to shut down companies and extort ransoms from them is good crime that will increase DarkSide’s revenues but (2) putting servers in Iran, which is subject to U.S. sanctions, is bad crime that will reduce DarkSide’s revenues. Similarly here I would love to sit in a strategy meeting at DarkSide's billing department. “We realize that some customers will prefer to pay in Bitcoin, and we want them to have a good customer experience after we hack them and shut down their business, but it really is helpful to us if we can push them to Monero so let’s offer a 10% discount for Monero.”
On the other hand a disadvantage of Monero is that it is less useful than Bitcoin, in terms of being convertible into sandwiches etc. “Its overall market capitalisation remains a sliver of that of bitcoin: nearly $5bn compared with $727bn,” notes the Financial Times, and if you want to buy Monero (to pay ransoms) or sell Monero (because you got paid a ransom and want to spend it) it’s not especially easy or efficient:
Meanwhile ransomware negotiators, who are typically hired by victims to help handle extortion payments, have also begun contacting monero developers in order to understand how the cryptocurrency works, according to Ehrenhofer. The negotiators are aiming to “build out the liquidity relationships” needed to facilitate payment in the event of a monero ransom demand, he said.
Like, sure it’s a 10% or 20% premium to pay in Bitcoin, but when you factor in the price impact of buying all that Monero it’s a closer question. And so what the world needs now is more market makers in Monero so that companies can pay their ransoms more efficiently. “Build out the liquidity relationships.” Imagine the pitch to venture capitalists if you want to start a new Monero market maker. “The problem is that companies cannot efficiently access Monero liquidity to pay criminals. We will build good relationships with companies who want to buy Monero to pay ransoms, and we will also build good relationships with criminals who want to turn their Monero ransoms back into cash, so we can tighten Monero spreads and make paying ransom more efficient.” Is that good?
There are disadvantages, though. Bitcoin transactions are recorded on a public ledger, so the authorities can track payments to you and try to get them back. (By arresting you, or hacking your password or whatever.) And so the Federal Bureau of Investigation was able to trace the money that the Colonial Pipeline hackers got from a ransomware attack and get most of it back. Also Bitcoin is less useful than dollars: Its price is volatile, and you will generally have to convert it into regular currency to buy a sandwich.
Here is a fun Financial Times story about Monero, a “privacy coin” that is sort of like Bitcoin but untraceable:
While bitcoin leaves a visible trail of transactions on its underlying blockchain, the niche “privacy coin” monero was designed to obscure the sender and receiver, as well as the amount exchanged.
As a result, it has become an increasingly sought-after tool for criminals such as ransomware gangs, posing new problems for law enforcement.
So that is an obvious advantage over Bitcoin, which means that if you are doing crime you should — arguably — prefer Monero to Bitcoin. And some criminals do:
Russia-linked REvil, the notorious ransomware group believed to be behind the attack earlier this month on meatpacker JBS, has removed the option of paying in bitcoin this year, demanding monero only, according to Brett Callow, threat analyst at Emsisoft.
Meanwhile both DarkSide, the group blamed for the Colonial Pipeline hack, and Babuk, which was behind the attack on the Washington DC Police earlier this year, allow payments in either cryptocurrency, but charge a 10 to 20 per cent premium to victims paying in riskier bitcoin, experts say.
I have written before about my fascination with, like, the back-office functions at ransomware groups. Specifically I wrote about DarkSide’s compliance department, which apparently decided that (1) hacking into computer systems to shut down companies and extort ransoms from them is good crime that will increase DarkSide’s revenues but (2) putting servers in Iran, which is subject to U.S. sanctions, is bad crime that will reduce DarkSide’s revenues. Similarly here I would love to sit in a strategy meeting at DarkSide's billing department. “We realize that some customers will prefer to pay in Bitcoin, and we want them to have a good customer experience after we hack them and shut down their business, but it really is helpful to us if we can push them to Monero so let’s offer a 10% discount for Monero.”
On the other hand a disadvantage of Monero is that it is less useful than Bitcoin, in terms of being convertible into sandwiches etc. “Its overall market capitalisation remains a sliver of that of bitcoin: nearly $5bn compared with $727bn,” notes the Financial Times, and if you want to buy Monero (to pay ransoms) or sell Monero (because you got paid a ransom and want to spend it) it’s not especially easy or efficient:
Meanwhile ransomware negotiators, who are typically hired by victims to help handle extortion payments, have also begun contacting monero developers in order to understand how the cryptocurrency works, according to Ehrenhofer. The negotiators are aiming to “build out the liquidity relationships” needed to facilitate payment in the event of a monero ransom demand, he said.
Like, sure it’s a 10% or 20% premium to pay in Bitcoin, but when you factor in the price impact of buying all that Monero it’s a closer question. And so what the world needs now is more market makers in Monero so that companies can pay their ransoms more efficiently. “Build out the liquidity relationships.” Imagine the pitch to venture capitalists if you want to start a new Monero market maker. “The problem is that companies cannot efficiently access Monero liquidity to pay criminals. We will build good relationships with companies who want to buy Monero to pay ransoms, and we will also build good relationships with criminals who want to turn their Monero ransoms back into cash, so we can tighten Monero spreads and make paying ransom more efficient.” Is that good?
dimots said:
Could be. Not typical exchange wallet transfers but could conceivably be some kind of backup.
Here's the Bitfinex cold wallet for example:
https://bitinfocharts.com/bitcoin/wallet/Bitfinex-...
they are usually labelled, the reason i say is the round numbers, but they usually move it around for safety purposes. Could be a whale?Here's the Bitfinex cold wallet for example:
https://bitinfocharts.com/bitcoin/wallet/Bitfinex-...
Condi said:
God love Matt Levine (Bloomberg opinion writer)
Bitcoin is digital cash. But it has a built in ledger so it's better than cash. Banks are just control systems implemented by governments.Matt Levine said:
If you are doing crime, cash has a lot of advantages over bank transfers. You can store and transfer cash anonymously without permission, without going through the know-your-customer procedures and anti-money-laundering checks of the U.S. banking system; also cash payments are more or less irreversible, so U.S. authorities can’t just go to your bank and tell it to reverse a payment to you. And cash is fairly useful: You can use it to pay for some things (particularly things that criminals might want), and if you want other things you can turn cash into other currencies fairly easily.
dimots said:
Condi said:
God love Matt Levine (Bloomberg opinion writer)
Bitcoin is digital cash. But it has a built in ledger so it's better than cash. Banks are just control systems implemented by governments.Matt Levine said:
If you are doing crime, cash has a lot of advantages over bank transfers. You can store and transfer cash anonymously without permission, without going through the know-your-customer procedures and anti-money-laundering checks of the U.S. banking system; also cash payments are more or less irreversible, so U.S. authorities can’t just go to your bank and tell it to reverse a payment to you. And cash is fairly useful: You can use it to pay for some things (particularly things that criminals might want), and if you want other things you can turn cash into other currencies fairly easily.
jammy-git said:
But it isn't' money in your hand, which cash cash will always have as an advantage.
Well that's an advantage in some situations but not others right? Like, if you have to carry $3,000,000 of dodgy cash through customs would you choose to do that with bags of notes or by writing down a 12 word phrase?dimots said:
Well that's an advantage in some situations but not others right? Like, if you have to carry $3,000,000 of dodgy cash through customs would you choose to do that with bags of notes or by writing down a 12 word phrase?
So we're back to crypto being the preferred choice of criminals and money launders? And you wonder why governments will never let it happen?! Because of the exact example you have just provided.
Condi said:
So we're back to crypto being the preferred choice of criminals and money launders?
And you wonder why governments will never let it happen?! Because of the exact example you have just provided.
No we are talking about the article you quoted which begins "If you are doing crime...". Please keep up And you wonder why governments will never let it happen?! Because of the exact example you have just provided.
dimots said:
Well that's an advantage in some situations but not others right? Like, if you have to carry $3,000,000 of dodgy cash through customs would you choose to do that with bags of notes or by writing down a 12 word phrase?
its great until its only worth $2,000,000 by the time you land in Sydney! dimots said:
Haha it might be worth more dollars it might be worth less. Dollars are very unreliable. But one thing you know for sure if they’re not printing any more Bitcoin while you travel!
In comparison to bitcoin dollars are super reliable, the volatility is (mathematically) fractions of what bitcoin's vol is. dimots said:
andy ted said:
its great until its only worth $2,000,000 by the time you land in Sydney!
Haha it might be worth more dollars it might be worth less. Dollars are very unreliable. But one thing you know for sure if they’re not printing any more Bitcoin while you travel!On a more serious question though having seen the news on John Mcafee got me thinking, assuming someone dies who was holding BTC and they never shared the key with anyone - are those BTC are gone forever? Could we end up with loads of BTC effectively out of circulation for ever as time goes by and more and more people end up in this situation limiting the supply?
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