Crypto Currency Thread (Vol.2)
Discussion
Condi said:
It has a price, not a value. Price and value are different things, if you understood that maybe you'd see a different point of view as to what it is you're buying.
I understand the difference perfectly well thanks - but it doesn't change my outlook. PS not buying anything at the moment, perhaps don't make more assumptions (like the whole FCA thing).
Unless of course your profiting right now from being so expert on crypto, in which case hats off to you.
jammy-git said:
Ari said:
halo34 said:
There are many similar groups doing the same for stocks, shares and other nonsense too - tis not just crypto matey. It may be more predominant but the gamestop scenario was driven by reddit.
There is a thread where you can argue about value with yourself endlessly if I remember right
Possibly, but the crucial difference is that stocks and shares generally have value beyond just crossing your fingers and hoping for bigger fools piling in behind you. There is a thread where you can argue about value with yourself endlessly if I remember right
Remarkable.
Ari said:
And this, I think, is the most fascinating thing about this whole get rich quick scheme. People seem to genuinely believe that buying crypto is just like buying shares in an actual business - that it has value in of itself rather than in the ponzi sense of continually needing the next round of buyers to just unquestioningly believe he/she will get rich quick too.
Remarkable.
You have it the wrong way around. People buying crypto don't believe they're buying into the same context as stocks and shares.Remarkable.
However, people buying stocks and shares thinking they're buying a piece of the companies assets and an influence on the companies future, and that those share prices are driven more by those assets and the companies profits than they are by sentiment and market manipulation is probably what is more remarkable here.
jammy-git said:
When the price is entirely driven by sentiment (as is the case with crypto), price = value.
Not at all, price and value are fundamentally different things. The value of crypto lies in its use as a currency, medium of exchange, store of value etc. The price is just what people are willing to pay, and in the case of crypto then the 2 are entirely separate. Safemoon and Cummies, for example, have 0 fundamental value, but do have a price.
jammy-git said:
However, people buying stocks and shares thinking they're buying a piece of the companies assets and an influence on the companies future, and that those share prices are driven more by those assets and the companies profits than they are by sentiment and market manipulation is probably what is more remarkable here.
Market manipulation. 
Yes, of course it has to be "market manipulation". What nonsense.
Sentiment, yes to an extent. Market manipulation, if you honestly think so the FCA and SEC would be interested to know. They spend billions of dollars per year ensuring that manipulation is kept to a minimum and those doing it are prosecuted.
Condi said:
jammy-git said:
When the price is entirely driven by sentiment (as is the case with crypto), price = value.
Not at all, price and value are fundamentally different things. The value of crypto lies in its use as a currency, medium of exchange, store of value etc. The price is just what people are willing to pay, and in the case of crypto then the 2 are entirely separate. Safemoon and Cummies, for example, have 0 fundamental value, but do have a price.
Condi said:
jammy-git said:
However, people buying stocks and shares thinking they're buying a piece of the companies assets and an influence on the companies future, and that those share prices are driven more by those assets and the companies profits than they are by sentiment and market manipulation is probably what is more remarkable here.
Market manipulation. Yes, of course it has to be "market manipulation". What nonsense.
Sentiment, yes to an extent. Market manipulation, if you honestly think so the FCA and SEC would be interested to know. They spend billions of dollars per year ensuring that manipulation is kept to a minimum and those doing it are prosecuted.
jammy-git said:
Well then maybe it's better to say, using your definition, that the value is irrelevant.
Value is not irrelevant because price and value, over time, converge. In the short and maybe even medium term, they can become detached, but at the end of the day there is always a fundamental reason why things are worth what they are. The job of a trader is to distinguish between the 2 and exploit differences. jammy-git said:
Now who's being naive.
Go on then, entertain me. What market manipulation goes on regularly? Even occasionally? Obviously it happens, every now and again, but when it does people are prosecuted. To say it's a common occurrence and makes up even a minuscule amount of a stock's share price is totally b
ks. Condi said:
jammy-git said:
Now who's being naive.
Go on then, entertain me. What market manipulation goes on regularly? Even occasionally? Obviously it happens, every now and again, but when it does people are prosecuted. To say it's a common occurrence and makes up even a minuscule amount of a stock's share price is totally bks. Condi said:
halo34 said:
I understand the difference perfectly well thanks - but it doesn't change my outlook.
You don't understand, otherwise you wouldn't have said that value = price. I mean is everything ok?
Did crypto steal a family pet or something?
There are good places to talk to people about feeling like you need to be right all the time know!
jammy-git said:
I've watched that twice and don't see what your point is? He discusses the ways into trading and says hedge funds raise cash from investors. Can you summarise what in there is illegal, immoral, or comes anything close to manipulation? halo34 said:
Condi said:
halo34 said:
I understand the difference perfectly well thanks - but it doesn't change my outlook.
You don't understand, otherwise you wouldn't have said that value = price. Zumbruk said:
Can I just say that I am am deriving huge pleasure from reading this thread; watching clueless idiots arguing about things they have no idea about is always a good laugh. And it hardens my determination to have nothing whatever to do with Dunning-Krugerands.
Where’s your expertise from then? I think that there’s at least two people on the thread who are professional traders in a bank.jammy-git said:
Do they though? I realise the value of stocks and shares is supposed to be based on the value of the assets of the business. But ultimately, that's not really true is it? The value of stocks and shares is entirely based on the confidence investors have in that business. Which is exactly the same with crypto.
No, not really, if you own a share you literally own a part of a company, and in a lot of cases that’s a company that’s doing business and making money. You own a fraction of that revenue stream.Yes, things can change, but it’s actually ownership of something that’s (normally) making money.
jammy-git said:
Ari said:
And this, I think, is the most fascinating thing about this whole get rich quick scheme. People seem to genuinely believe that buying crypto is just like buying shares in an actual business - that it has value in of itself rather than in the ponzi sense of continually needing the next round of buyers to just unquestioningly believe he/she will get rich quick too.
Remarkable.
You have it the wrong way around. People buying crypto don't believe they're buying into the same context as stocks and shares.Remarkable.
However, people buying stocks and shares thinking they're buying a piece of the companies assets and an influence on the companies future, and that those share prices are driven more by those assets and the companies profits than they are by sentiment and market manipulation is probably what is more remarkable here.
Dear oh dear oh dear.
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