Crypto Currency Thread (Vol.2)

[GT3Manthey]

r3g said:

Given that you've mentioned it 3 or 4 times now, despite someone providing links to the creator's shady history, suggests to me that you're already involved in it and are desperately trying to drag other people in to pump the price. If that is not the case, then just go buy it if you believe in it. You don't need approval from other parties.

I’m not involved and have taken the previous points on board.

As per my first post on this thread I stated I know very little on this subject hence asking and continuing to ask .

Tks

[WY86]

Mr Whippy said:

No I don’t buy at lows.

I bought at 150/btc and only ever spent in exchange for goods/services.

I’d argue with your application of my sentiment though, very few people are probably buying btc to ‘make it big’ now… the action was in late 20 early 21… and even then it’s increasingly small fractions of what it once was.

I’m talking about the utter desperation of people in the ‘to the moon’ pyramid looking schemes.
If you’re equating bitcoin with some of these other things at this point you’re taking what I said out of my intended context.

Even back in 2015 bitcoin felt a lot more sensible than half the ste I see.
You could buy it from tons of places. You could spend it *directly* at tons of places.
There were lots of iphone app wallets that supported it.

Vs random coin you’ve never heard of, can’t buy without a specialist exchange, can’t spend, only exchange for crypto or cash, need special wallets for etc.


Sorry, there is clearly a big difference.

To be fair that still goes on in the Bitcoin community going on about BTC mooning to 100K or 1Million.

You can spend it at tons of places back in 2015? i think your being a little over the top with that, I never see bitcoin accepted here signs whenever i am in a town centre.

But again if your just looking at a random coin without doing any research and just dismissing it because its not BTC is also unfair as there is some real interesting tech which isnt competing with BTC.

[r3g]

Mr Whippy said:

No I don’t buy at lows.

I bought at 150/btc and only ever spent in exchange for goods/services.

What goods and services are those?

Mr Whippy said:

I’d argue with your application of my sentiment though, very few people are probably buying btc to ‘make it big’ now… the action was in late 20 early 21… and even then it’s increasingly small fractions of what it once was.

No-one's buying it to make it big?! What are you smoking? If they're not buying it to "make it big" then what are they buying it for? Please don't tell me it's because they believe in its use case and store of value.

Mr Whippy said:

I’m talking about the utter desperation of people in the ‘to the moon’ pyramid looking schemes.
If you’re equating bitcoin with some of these other things at this point you’re taking what I said out of my intended context.

Whether intended or not, your insinuation came across loud and clear that you consider yourself to be morally superior by only 'investing' in Bitcoin, and anyone who trades in riskier projects is literally talking food out of babies' mouths, based on some preconception that it's only "desperate" people who "don't have much" who trade at this end of the crypto space. Which is complete and utter rubbish!

Mr Whippy said:

Even back in 2015 bitcoin felt a lot more sensible than half the ste I see.
You could buy it from tons of places. You could spend it *directly* at tons of places.
There were lots of iphone app wallets that supported it.

Vs random coin you’ve never heard of, can’t buy without a specialist exchange, can’t spend, only exchange for crypto or cash, need special wallets for etc.

Sorry, there is clearly a big difference.

There really isn't. Seems like you've borrowed RichTT's rose coloured glasses and also turned into a Bitcoin maxi .

As Condi likes to remind everyone in the thread on a regular basis: Bitcoin has no intrinsic value, no utility, no real world use and is useless as a store of value. Exactly like all the other crypto coins with a small number of exceptions. It's a ponzi just like all the others, regardless of their market cap. The BTC price is dictated by how fast the Tether printer can go "Brrrrrrr" - money created out of thin air.

If you decided to sell after making 2x, 10x, 100x profits, I highly doubt that you would give those "desperate" people who "don't have much" a second thought before clicking the 'sell' button. And, if you think that "desperate" people only exist in the 'degen' end of the crypto space, go take a look at the Bitcoin reddits where you'll find no shortage of threads from people who are close to suicidal after losing all their money in this latest BTC crash.

Crypto is gambling, pure and simple. If you don't want to risk losing all your money, don't put it on the table.

[Tonberry]

Seems a few of you are a little further into the DeFi ponzi than I thought.

Putting aside the 'wen moon' nature of crypto, the tech involved with Blockchain is pretty impresive.

Wolf Game, for example, have pioneered an ERC-20 token that vests linearly over a 4 year period which is designed to control token emissions and should lead to a more stable game economy. There are also in game mechanics that allow you to steal NFTs from other players.

The risk based nature of the game means that not every player can 'win', but just participating will see you rewarded.

The 'Cave Game' mini game has items that can only be found through perseverance and are worth anything up to 4 ETH. Some players have found up to 25 of these items.

https://wolf.game/
https://morioh.com/p/0b04236c4a37

VeeCon attendance is only possible through the purchase of an NFT based ticket. Sure a regular ticket would suffice, but as Web3 evolves, we'll see more innovative real world use cases.

https://veecon.co/

The wider world is catching on too as the DVLA have released several NFT and crypto themed plates (e.g. NFT 80Y and ERC 721X) over the past few months. Buying into hype? Why not.

The crypto space isn't for everyone, but the tech side of things has legs and I'm interested to see where the journey ends.

[WY86]

Tonberry said:

Seems a few of you are a little further into the DeFi ponzi than I thought.

Putting aside the 'wen moon' nature of crypto, the tech involved with Blockchain is pretty impresive.

Wolf Game, for example, have pioneered an ERC-20 token that vests linearly over a 4 year period which is designed to control token emissions and should lead to a more stable game economy. There are also in game mechanics that allow you to steal NFTs from other players.

The risk based nature of the game means that not every player can 'win', but just participating will see you rewarded.

The 'Cave Game' mini game has items that can only be found through perseverance and are worth anything up to 4 ETH. Some players have found up to 25 of these items.

https://wolf.game/
https://morioh.com/p/0b04236c4a37

VeeCon attendance is only possible through the purchase of an NFT based ticket. Sure a regular ticket would suffice, but as Web3 evolves, we'll see more innovative real world use cases.

https://veecon.co/

The wider world is catching on too as the DVLA have released several NFT and crypto themed plates (e.g. NFT 80Y and ERC 721X) over the past few months. Buying into hype? Why not.

The crypto space isn't for everyone, but the tech side of things has legs and I'm interested to see where the journey ends.

Careful your talking about real world applications and not the ability to purchase a can of coke in Venezuela with Bitcoin... MRwhippy won't be happy!!

[Condi]

Tonberry said:

The crypto space isn't for everyone, but the tech side of things has legs and I'm interested to see where the journey ends.

A few very niche examples isnt really "having legs". Over 10 years ago someone bought a pizza with Bitcoin and aside from a few years as the defacto currency of drug dealers and hackers which even now appears to be at an end, the practical uses of Bitcoin have been going backwards ever since.

Just having a look at that VeeCon event, it's a Web3 conference. You'd be disappointed if it didn't have NFT tickets, no? How is an NFT ticket different to a ticket from Ticketmaster, anyway? My Ticketmaster ticket is not "fungible". The site is full of buzzwords which mean very little... the tickets have been "airdropped" apparently, and there are plenty of "OG's" (original gangster's, really?!) on the bill, as well as people simply hyping their own tokens. It's everything which is easy to hate - people in a massive circle jerk all buying the hype.

Maybe the bloke who bought Jack Dorsey's tweet for $2m should have sat through this session first... "History of Flipping: What to Watch Out For
Collectibles, comics, cards, and sneakers. Each has had its fair share of booms and busts. Listen to these three pioneers for what to expect with the future of flipping NFTs."

GT3Manthey said:

As per my first post on this thread I stated I know very little on this subject hence asking and continuing to ask .

It's a scam. I haven't looked and so don't know how the scam works, but it makes no difference. Even if your friend makes some money, Bernie Madoff made some people very wealthy too. Someone, somewhere is funding this as the market doesn't make or lose money, it just moves from one person to another. Chances are the people funding it are those putting money in now expecting to get money out in a few years.

Edited by Condi on Thursday 19th May 09:57

[r3g]

Condi said:

Tonberry said:

The crypto space isn't for everyone, but the tech side of things has legs and I'm interested to see where the journey ends.

A few very niche examples isnt really "having legs". Over 10 years ago someone bought a pizza with Bitcoin and aside from a few years as the defacto currency of drug dealers and hackers which even now appears to be at an end, the practical uses of Bitcoin have been going backwards ever since.

Agree with you on your second part Condi, but I think Tonberry's point was that the crypto world is evolving (albeit somewhat slowly) and there's stuff out there which generally never shows on people's radar because their knowledge beyond the standard BTC and ETH hype is basically nonexistent.

The NFT jpeg world makes absolutely no sense to me and seems like an excellent way to lose all your money, but there are people out there who strongly believe in it and spend millions trading Bored Ape Yacht Club jpegs with each other. At the other end of the NFT spectrum you have the play-to-earn games, some of which are hugely successful like Axie Infinity, Gods Unchained, Sandbox 3D, Guild of Guardians, to name a few. These NFTs are constantly being bought and sold with other gamers who want to 'level up' faster or fast-track to getting certain in-game 'loot'. I would say that these are a good example of crypto in a real world use case scenario. ..unlike BTC .

I made about 430 from Chikn game (from 100 seed) but organising all my chickens and eggs several times a day got to be a pain in the arse so ended up slipping and got overtaken by more dedicated players. Same kind of thing with The Tavern and Animal Farm. I think the gaming NFTs stand a high chance of succeeding because of the interaction needed and 'user' enjoyment playing the games. What do you do with your BTC except look at a few digits on a screen and hope the digits increase?

[r3g]

Tonberry said:

Seems a few of you are a little further into the DeFi ponzi than I thought.

I didn't go into Swapnex in the end. Further due diligence discovered that a slow rug seems to be happening as withdrawal amounts are being limited. Usually a sign that the writing is on the wall.

Still planning on Yield Nodes but not committed yet.

I put $100 into 100 Days Ventures yesterday. Yielding $1.89 per day.

What degen projects are you in Tonberry?

[Tonberry]

Condi said:

Tonberry said:

The crypto space isn't for everyone, but the tech side of things has legs and I'm interested to see where the journey ends.

A few very niche examples isnt really "having legs". Over 10 years ago someone bought a pizza with Bitcoin and aside from a few years as the defacto currency of drug dealers and hackers which even now appears to be at an end, the practical uses of Bitcoin have been going backwards ever since.

Just having a look at that VeeCon event, it's a Web3 conference. You'd be disappointed if it didn't have NFT tickets, no? How is an NFT ticket different to a ticket from Ticketmaster, anyway? My Ticketmaster ticket is not "fungible". The site is full of buzzwords which mean very little... the tickets have been "airdropped" apparently, and there are plenty of "OG's" (original gangster's, really?!) on the bill, as well as people simply hyping their own tokens. It's everything which is easy to hate - people in a massive circle jerk all buying the hype.

Maybe the bloke who bought Jack Dorsey's tweet for $2m should have sat through this session first... "History of Flipping: What to Watch Out For
Collectibles, comics, cards, and sneakers. Each has had its fair share of booms and busts. Listen to these three pioneers for what to expect with the future of flipping NFTs."

Edited by Condi on Thursday 19th May 09:57

And most things in life can be described as "people in a massive circle jerk all buying the hype".

Whether the sneaker resale market or buying and selling luxury watches.

Bitcoin has been around for years, but Web3 is new ground and the natural evolution of Web2. The possibilities are endless.

The industry will take years to mature but there is going to be a lot of opportunity on the way for those in the right place at the right time or with the right skillset.

r3g said:

Tonberry said:

Seems a few of you are a little further into the DeFi ponzi than I thought.

I didn't go into Swapnex in the end. Further due diligence discovered that a slow rug seems to be happening as withdrawal amounts are being limited. Usually a sign that the writing is on the wall.

Still planning on Yield Nodes but not committed yet.

I put $100 into 100 Days Ventures yesterday. Yielding $1.89 per day.

What degen projects are you in Tonberry?

I wouldn't go anywhere near Swapnex. I've seen this scenario playout countless times.

Yield Nodes is one to watch. I know of someone who is credible and likes the protocol.

I think Thor Nodes are going to have an interesting year. GOA is going to be big.

Samurai Nodes could make the comeback of all time.

Concave could be a decent play if they can launch their product and deliver. Like Wonderland but less ponzi.

Sifu Vision could be worth a punt. He lost on Terra Luna but generally makes decent calls.

Crabada is still worth playing at this point.

Can't wait to see how Wolf Game plays out, the brains behind that one are impressive.

[Tonberry]

A brief insight into the future:

https://cointelegraph.com/news/3b-flows-to-metaver...

https://www.web3wire.news/post/epic-games-secures-...

https://blockworks.co/new-dao-aims-to-solve-web3s-...

https://www.theverge.com/2022/5/18/23122179/napste...

https://www.voguebusiness.com/technology/proofs-of...

https://hbr.org/2022/05/why-build-in-web3

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-05-18...

https://music.gala.world/

https://app.gala.games/nodes

If you're into tech in any form, Blockchain will be part of it.

Edited by Tonberry on Thursday 19th May 11:44

[james6546]

GT3Manthey said:

That’s my concern.

I’ve been ‘invited’ to get involved but not knowing too much I’m very wary

Usually if it's too good to be true, it is. Even in crypto. Nothing is free.

I would say it sounds a bit like a pyramid scheme to me, be careful.

[r3g]

Tonberry said:

I wouldn't go anywhere near Swapnex. I've seen this scenario playout countless times.

Yield Nodes is one to watch. I know of someone who is credible and likes the protocol.

I think Thor Nodes are going to have an interesting year. GOA is going to be big.

Samurai Nodes could make the comeback of all time.

Concave could be a decent play if they can launch their product and deliver. Like Wonderland but less ponzi.

Sifu Vision could be worth a punt. He lost on Terra Luna but generally makes decent calls.

Crabada is still worth playing at this point.

Can't wait to see how Wolf Game plays out, the brains behind that one are impressive.

Swapnex was actually quite tame for me at "only" 3% ish . I've been in some at 10% per day, with the wholly predictable endings, but I'll still put my cash in if there's no lock-in and I can withdraw daily. You quickly make your ROI back and then you're playing with house money so you just keep on alternating compounding and withdrawing until they rug.

I don't have much in Thor. Felt sketchy AF when I initially got in and didn't want to risk much. These forks of failed projects don't typically last long before the same thing happens.

I was pleased to see that Drip has bounced a bit over the past 24 hours.

I'm not in the gaming ones now as I don't have the time to manage them.

Undecided about Yield Nodes. Volatile bear market + 6 month lock-in + big slab of cash needed to make it worthwhile . Looking at their figures thus far this month they're going to struggle to do 5% return. I don't believe any of the "fully doxxed team" crap as it counts for nothing in reality, but they have been around for 3 years and also gone through some big market dips so kinda "safe-ish", but then you look at what happened with the "safe" Anchor. Decisions...

[Condi]

r3g said:

These NFTs are constantly being bought and sold with other gamers who want to 'level up' faster or fast-track to getting certain in-game 'loot'. I would say that these are a good example of crypto in a real world use case scenario. ..unlike BTC .

Is this really a use of "NFTs" though, or is this just the company recording things which have been traded on their database?

NFT =/= blockchain =/= crypto. For all anyone knows the list of things owned by an individual player is simply on an Access database. People have been trading in game products for far longer than NFT's have been a thing, indeed the whole point of NFT's was to record the ownership of something used publicly. Unless everyone is using the same items then who owns the original is irreverent, there are only X number of items and X number of players using them.

[Condi]

Tonberry said:

And most things in life can be described as "people in a massive circle jerk all buying the hype".

Whether the sneaker resale market or buying and selling luxury watches.

Not really. People don't buy a Rolex because it tells the time better than a Casio, they buy a Rolex to show other people they own a Rolex. These things also have intrinsic value, because if all else fails you can melt it down and sell the metal.

[tertius]

Condi said:

Tonberry said:

And most things in life can be described as "people in a massive circle jerk all buying the hype".

Whether the sneaker resale market or buying and selling luxury watches.

Not really. People don't buy a Rolex because it tells the time better than a Casio, they buy a Rolex to show other people they own a Rolex. These things also have intrinsic value, because if all else fails you can melt it down and sell the metal.

The intrinsic value of the metal in a steel sports Rolex (more or the only ones which trade above RRP) will be about 2.5p.

[Condi]

tertius said:

The intrinsic value of the metal in a steel sports Rolex (more or the only ones which trade above RRP) will be about 2.5p.

Oh I agree, but it does at least set a price floor below which a Rolex can never go. Admittedly you'd be somewhat disappointed if you ended up melting your Rolex down for scrap but it's probably a better return than buying Luna 2 weeks ago.

[Gweeds]

Rolex are also Veblen goods.

[Mr Whippy]

Tonberry said:

A brief insight into the future:

https://cointelegraph.com/news/3b-flows-to-metaver...

If you're into tech in any form, Blockchain will be part of it.

First link:

article said:

GAMES FUND ONE will invest in game studios, consumer apps and game infrastructure providers with a16z saying the industry has “solved many of the problems” needed to make a metaverse."

Solved many of the problems needed to make a metaverse?

What were those problems? We've had MMORPG in the hugely popular WoW about 15 years ago.
MMORG in TDU1 about 15 years ago.
Counter Strike GO with all their expensive loot trading (without NFT/blockchain) 10-15 years ago.

Second Life, nearly 20 years ago, loads of online sharing/trading/ownership.

We already have a metaverse. Unless decentralised makes it materially different to the end user somehow?

Sandbox game, sounds just like Roblox, which is basically an extortion system walled garden, essentially like AOL and all those weird walled garden internet things were in the mid 90s... and then Google just came along and became the internet portal... making even a well sourced URL become an irrelevance... who even types URLs any more? And yet we're being told weird addresses or metaverse property will have value?

article said:

Venture capital firm Andreessen Horowitz (a16z) has launched a $600 million fund dedicated to gaming startups with a focus on Web3, saying it believes “games infrastructure and technologies will be key building blocks of the Metaverse.”

$600 million fund? Microsoft are buying Blizzard for $70 billion! About 100x more. And that's just one facet of Microsoft. And that isn't including Nintendo and Sony. And then all the other developers in the gaming space.

Yes games infrastructure and tech will be key building blocks of the Metaverse, we already know that, because that's what the Metaverse is, games, which we've seen doing this for 20 years already. Just not without the monetisation built in to basically turn everything into a huge pay to play environment where a few people just sit and skim off transactions from the entire space.

But wait... what are Epic Games doing in this space? What? They already let you use their game engine to make a metaverse, in essence, and take a cut themselves?
But at least they actually give you a proper game engine, not just a sandbox ala Roblox, which is basically a trap.

article said:

The a16z team said “the coming Metaverse will be built by games companies, using games technologies” and that the industry has already “solved many of the problems that need to be solved to create the Metaverse.” It believes games will become the “dominant way people spend time.”

Well maybe not built by games companies. You can download Unreal Engine and build your own world, and deploy your own game, all for free if you make it a free game. You could build a free metaverse. It's just the servers that'd cost you. But then some people can just host their own. Have fun for years in your own little worlds, for free, for entertainment.
OK you won't be able to buy expensive stuff, to show off in a virtual world, but if you're only online playing a game to basically wave your money around, then that's not really something technologically impressive is it? That's just what we've already had a peek at for years in games already.

At least in WoW you had to grind or play the game for this stuff. Not now, you can just pay to 'win' and then game operator can take a cut... such an amazing use of this technology

article said:

The move by a16z marks nearly $3 billion committed by venture funds and gaming industry giants into Web3 gaming or metaverse projects since mid-April. Venture firm White Star Capital raised $120 million for its decentralized finance (DeFi) and gaming-focused fund, along with a $200 million allocation to blockchain gaming projects by Framework Ventures, both taking place in April 2022.

Still absolutely nothing in the big picture of things. And this is all just basically decentralised ways to take pay to pay revenue... is this all just a way to walk around existing operators ways of taking revenue (apple fees, unreal engine fees etc?)

article said:

Metaverse projects are also gaining massive sums from gaming industry titans. Last month, Epic Games, creator of the popular Fortnite title, raised $2 billion to create a metaverse with funding from Sony and LEGO.

$2 billion, at last a decent chunk. And it's a metaverse. But it's got Sony and LEGO (LEGO!) in on it... which means it will be family friendly and very unlikely to be some money making scammy business venture like Roblox.
So great, one piece of good news. A decent games company who don't do pay to play scammy crap, are teaming up with good ethnical businesses (LEGO) to make a metaverse (a MMO game, we've seen these before) for kids that one would hope isn't going to use blockchain (if at all) to abuse it's users with fees.
Great, but this isn't the future. This is what we've already seen before.


And what about Nvidia, they're making a metaverse too. And Facebook.

We're going to have about 10 serious metaverses soon. So plenty of competition. I wonder what the net result will be? OK just the same as web2.0, servers in rooms whirring along, designed in obsolescence so you upgrade to metaverse 2.0, and have to buy your mansion and gold underpants again every few years
When did persistence ever make money in this world? The metaverse isn't anything of the sort unless it's persistent.

Yes decentralised might be persistent, but then they won't exist for the benefit of the users, they'll persist for the benefit of the people skimming micro-transactions.

article said:

The team at a16z pointed at the billions of dollars in revenue that games such as Minecraft generate, using the open-world game as an example of a title that has retained a long-term active community that functions more like a social network. Minecraft is the current all-time highest-selling game and has seen 173 million average monthly players over the past 30 days, according to figures from game statistics platform ActivePlayer, despite it being released almost 11 years ago.

So a game that MS bought, is doing well at making money from people making things for free and then taking a cut when they sell it via their platform?

Can we see a repeating trend here? People make stuff for free, and then someone wants to lord it over these ecosystems and take a cut for the transactions?

Yes there is money in it... but it's not a unique market/technology space. Competition will be rife. There won't be a winner, just lots of players and a race to the bottom. Where is the money in it? To say the whole world will play games 24/7 and give fees to buy all the stuff they need in this game (sounds like the Sims, a novelty until you realise it's fking boring and you should be improving your REAL life ffs!), to give everyone a chance of being billionaires investing in this space, is ridiculous.

To suggest it's super new amazing and innovative is bks. It's not. It's the same old pay to play skimming money off your community who do all the work kinda of business model for the most part.

article said:

The fund is the first by a16z solely dedicated to games, but the firm has backed successful game-related projects in the past including virtual reality (VR) company Oculus and game developer Zynga, saying the investments “cemented our belief that games require a specialized focus.”

Was Oculus successful? They were bought by Facebook, and since then FB sell their gear at subsidy. Some of it's nice tech I'll agree, but it's been paid along to this point.

Zynga, a successful pay to play game developer, who essentially sells the same buzz you get from gambling, but to kids and adults who should know better...

Specialised focus? Like the focus game developers had when arcade machines were big business? That specialised focus that's been in the market for getting on for half a century?

article said:

Joining the fund were founders of game development companies and popular games such as the co-founder of Riot Games Marc Merrill, cofounders Aleks Larsen and Jeffrey Zirlin of Sky Mavis, which owns the popular Axie Infinity blockchain game, and Kevin Lin, founder of gaming company Metatheory which received $24 million in a funding round led by a16z.

OK so lots of game developers who make lots of money, want to get in on making lots of money?



Indeed, blockchain will be part of pay to play in future. It looks like an efficient way for game developers to make more money and side-step platforms, taking their own cuts, or even the likes of banks or paypal or visa etc.


But the money won't be made by punters buying into random crypto projects, it'll be made by those SELLING stuff using it, to gullible punter gamers.


As I've said many times before, yes there will be money to be made along the way, hype, actual revenue streams from ethically nice projects, revenue from less ethical projects, blah blah.

But to just say anything with blockchain in the name is gold is nonsensical.



This is globalhyperwebnet all over again.

Or 'server farm' in the dot com hype.

[dimots]

tertius said:

The intrinsic value of the metal in a steel sports Rolex (more or the only ones which trade above RRP) will be about 2.5p.

Tangential to the thread but that's not the case any more - precious metal Rolexes also many times above RRP on secondary market. Rainbow Daytona/Yellow gold green faced Daytona are the most obvious examples.

Back to crypto.

[dimots]

Mr Whippy said:

Stuff...

You are living under a rock if you can't see the value proposition offered by in-game NFT markets.