Crypto Currency Thread (Vol.2)
Discussion
tshow.WY86 said:
Ari said:
Thirty years ago it was Network Marketing that was going to make everyone rich by selling on to the next tier who would sell it on to the next tier who would...
Three hundred-ish years ago it was tulip bulbs.
This is nothing new, it's just dressed up as techy and clever.
Tbf MLMS are still around today.Three hundred-ish years ago it was tulip bulbs.
This is nothing new, it's just dressed up as techy and clever.
g4ry13 said:
Ari said:
g4ry13 said:
If I spend 600k on a watch and then someone offers me 20k i'd call that a kick in the nuts!
If Precious metals prices fall and those gemstones aren't in demand then that 20k could become worth 10k.
Luna is currently priced at $0.0001362. Of course it can go lower and go to 0. Is your point that Luna is a scam which is worth 0 and extrapolating that to if 'If Luna is a scam, then maybe Bitcoin is as well and worth 0?'.
If your 600K watch became worthless you could still look at it, enjoy it, use it to tell the time, pass it on to your kids. If Precious metals prices fall and those gemstones aren't in demand then that 20k could become worth 10k.
Luna is currently priced at $0.0001362. Of course it can go lower and go to 0. Is your point that Luna is a scam which is worth 0 and extrapolating that to if 'If Luna is a scam, then maybe Bitcoin is as well and worth 0?'.
What could you use your Luna for if you couldn't find someone to buy hoping that they could sell it for more to someone who hoped to sell it for more to someone who hoped... ?
I could check my hypothetical Luna wallet and look back at it with fond memory that once upon a time it was worth a lot of money and made me feel happy. Alternatively, I could look back at it to reflect on it as a lesson. Either way, there would be some personal value.
As for your last paragraph, I think you've rather proved the point if that is all you can come up with as a use beyond hoping to find a bigger fool to pay more for your magic beans!
Ari said:
I drive a Mercedes SL, but it does the exact same job as a Dacia.
As for your last paragraph, I think you've rather proved the point if that is all you can come up with as a use beyond hoping to find a bigger fool to pay more for your magic beans!
Ok fountain of all knowledge tell us why Luna crashed then… explain what happened? It didnt crash because people ran out of fools to sell it to? But please enlighten us all…As for your last paragraph, I think you've rather proved the point if that is all you can come up with as a use beyond hoping to find a bigger fool to pay more for your magic beans!
But then again looking at your garage on here it might be abit to advanced for a hairdresser.
Edited by WY86 on Friday 20th May 08:51
g4ry13 said:
The conversation is nothing new in any case. It's been done to death over the various volumes / threads.
At this point, you're either in the camp of investing / gambling on crypto or of the opinion that it's a giant ponzi and will never have any intention to acquire some and nothing will change their mind.
The latter group I have no idea why they continue to return here other than they enjoy arguing.
Because it's fascinating watching people who's sole reason for owning, err nothing, is the hope that someone else with pay them more for that nothing trying to justify why these... struggling for the word, they're not even things, have any value.At this point, you're either in the camp of investing / gambling on crypto or of the opinion that it's a giant ponzi and will never have any intention to acquire some and nothing will change their mind.
The latter group I have no idea why they continue to return here other than they enjoy arguing.
The only way these things make money is by taking it from someone else who's also buying them to make money. There is no dividend, no rent, no work that they do, nothing being produced, no gains being made.
So the result is millions of people ALL thinking they're ALL going to make a lot of money from each other. It is remarkable that none of them seem to be able to spot the very basic flaw in that (especially as it's far from the first time it's happened). But human nature is endlessly fascinating.
I do appreciate that it would be much easier if it were a thread full of people all assuring each other that this time next year we'll be millionaires, Rodney, but it would be a bit dull wouldn't it?
WY86 said:
The real amusing part is that they are sat critiquing when their shares and stock markets are also having a wobble.
At least attack crypto when the markets are surging and crypto is down.
No one is pretending that shares only go up. But they are at least shares in 'something'. And they generate income. At least attack crypto when the markets are surging and crypto is down.
If I buy 1,000 shares, keep them for 10 years and sell them for exactly the same amount, they will have earned dividends.
They have a value based on what they earn and what they're a share of. What does crypto have a value based on, other than a hope and a prayer of what they might be worth tomorrow?
WY86 said:
Ari said:
I drive a Mercedes SL, but it does the exact same job as a Dacia.
As for your last paragraph, I think you've rather proved the point if that is all you can come up with as a use beyond hoping to find a bigger fool to pay more for your magic beans!
Ok fountain of all knowledge tell us why Luna crashed then… explain what happened? It didnt crash because people ran out of fools to sell it to? But please enlighten us all…As for your last paragraph, I think you've rather proved the point if that is all you can come up with as a use beyond hoping to find a bigger fool to pay more for your magic beans!
But then again looking at your garage on here it might be abit to advanced for a hairdresser.
Ari said:
No one is pretending that shares only go up. But they are at least shares in 'something'. And they generate income.
If I buy 1,000 shares, keep them for 10 years and sell them for exactly the same amount, they will have earned dividends.
They have a value based on what they earn and what they're a share of. What does crypto have a value based on, other than a hope and a prayer of what they might be worth tomorrow?
Ermmm what about the fact you can’t create more of the coins/tokens they are locked to a certain amount… unlike FIAT which during covid they couldn’t print money fast enough! If I buy 1,000 shares, keep them for 10 years and sell them for exactly the same amount, they will have earned dividends.
They have a value based on what they earn and what they're a share of. What does crypto have a value based on, other than a hope and a prayer of what they might be worth tomorrow?
The problem is your focusing on the actual token/coin too much and its the software behind it which is important bit to look at. You don’t look at the share and focus on that you look at the company you want to buy into!
Like i said before which you haven’t read or ignored, you can stake or add your crypto to liquidity pools and earn interest which you can’t with shares.
The main problem with the doubters is your blanketing all crypto with lazy stereotypes and pre conceived ideas.
In the 80’s you would of been complaining about Microsoft and why do i need Microsoft word when i have
Paper blah blah blah… Crypto IS SOFTWARE!!!
digger_R said:
I find this thread amusing for that reason alone!
It's hilarious now that we have a downtrend that the boomers come out saying I told you so - just looks like a case of sour grapes as they've been watching it but haven't been able to capitalize on the best performing asset of the last decade.
No one knows if it will continue - though it's impossible to argue with bitcoins $ value increase over the last decade.
I'd be happy to contribute more as it seems like there are a couple of clued up individuals - the thread is just kind of swamped by the dullards who would rather just argue with random people on the internet.
Enjoy your weekend!
Then explain it to us 'dullards' and 'boomers'. It's hilarious now that we have a downtrend that the boomers come out saying I told you so - just looks like a case of sour grapes as they've been watching it but haven't been able to capitalize on the best performing asset of the last decade.
No one knows if it will continue - though it's impossible to argue with bitcoins $ value increase over the last decade.
I'd be happy to contribute more as it seems like there are a couple of clued up individuals - the thread is just kind of swamped by the dullards who would rather just argue with random people on the internet.
Enjoy your weekend!
Where does the money come from?
I can explain to you very simply how buying 1,000 shares in a company will generate dividends for you, or how investing in a property will earn you rent. Neither are foolproof, but there is at least a basic underlying mechanism for generating wealth.
Where is it in crypto beyond the hope that the next layer of people will pay more because they believe that the next level will pay even more?
Happy to be educated.
WY86 said:
Ermmm what about the fact you can’t create more of the coins/tokens they are locked to a certain amount… unlike FIAT which during covid they couldn’t print money fast enough!
The problem is your focusing on the actual token/coin too much and its the software behind it which is important bit to look at. You don’t look at the share and focus on that you look at the company you want to buy into!
Like i said before which you haven’t read or ignored, you can stake or add your crypto to liquidity pools and earn interest which you can’t with shares.
The main problem with the doubters is your blanketing all crypto with lazy stereotypes and pre conceived ideas.
In the 80’s you would of been complaining about Microsoft and why do i need Microsoft word when i have
Paper blah blah blah… Crypto IS SOFTWARE!!!
You say you can earn interest. Great, what generates that money? The problem is your focusing on the actual token/coin too much and its the software behind it which is important bit to look at. You don’t look at the share and focus on that you look at the company you want to buy into!
Like i said before which you haven’t read or ignored, you can stake or add your crypto to liquidity pools and earn interest which you can’t with shares.
The main problem with the doubters is your blanketing all crypto with lazy stereotypes and pre conceived ideas.
In the 80’s you would of been complaining about Microsoft and why do i need Microsoft word when i have
Paper blah blah blah… Crypto IS SOFTWARE!!!
I can put money into a bank and it earns interest because they lend it to people who pay for that facility. That is the mechanism for generating that money. What's crypto's mechanism?
Ari said:
Then explain it to us 'dullards' and 'boomers'.
Where does the money come from?
I can explain to you very simply how buying 1,000 shares in a company will generate dividends for you, or how investing in a property will earn you rent. Neither are foolproof, but there is at least a basic underlying mechanism for generating wealth.
Where is it in crypto beyond the hope that the next layer of people will pay more because they believe that the next level will pay even more?
Happy to be educated.
Where does the money come from if a company looses money or a renter doesn't pay?Where does the money come from?
I can explain to you very simply how buying 1,000 shares in a company will generate dividends for you, or how investing in a property will earn you rent. Neither are foolproof, but there is at least a basic underlying mechanism for generating wealth.
Where is it in crypto beyond the hope that the next layer of people will pay more because they believe that the next level will pay even more?
Happy to be educated.
Ari said:
You say you can earn interest. Great, what generates that money?
I can put money into a bank and it earns interest because they lend it to people who pay for that facility. That is the mechanism for generating that money. What's crypto's mechanism?
The mechanism is people are transferring between FIAT And crypto, the DEX’s need liquidity, you add for example £500 worth of say ETH and £500 worth of dollars and that would make a pair.. which would be added to the liquidity pool so when people are transferring dollars to ETH as part of that transaction there is a gas fee.. and you get a percentage of that fee.I can put money into a bank and it earns interest because they lend it to people who pay for that facility. That is the mechanism for generating that money. What's crypto's mechanism?
WY86 said:
The mechanism is people are transferring between FIAT And crypto, the DEX’s need liquidity, you add for example 500 worth of say ETH and 500 worth of dollars and that would make a pair.. which would be added to the liquidity pool so when people are transferring dollars to ETH as part of that transaction there is a gas fee.. and you get a percentage of that fee.
You're talking to a dullard boomer, remember? So simple terms please, like this. Property. Buy a house, rent it to a family, they pay you money in return for living in it. That's how it generates money.
Ari said:
WY86 said:
The real amusing part is that they are sat critiquing when their shares and stock markets are also having a wobble.
At least attack crypto when the markets are surging and crypto is down.
No one is pretending that shares only go up. But they are at least shares in 'something'. And they generate income. At least attack crypto when the markets are surging and crypto is down.
If I buy 1,000 shares, keep them for 10 years and sell them for exactly the same amount, they will have earned dividends.
They have a value based on what they earn and what they're a share of. What does crypto have a value based on, other than a hope and a prayer of what they might be worth tomorrow?
Or at least partly wrong.
You only earn a dividend if the company pays a dividend. If you invest in growth stocks then you accept that you're not investing for a dividend. Facebook, Amazon, Netflix, Google and many others have never paid a dividend.
People have been buying these shares hoping they will be able to find someone to sell them to down the line for more than they originally paid. That actually sounds quite familiar, where have I heard that before?
.
Ari said:
You're talking to a dullard boomer, remember? So simple terms please, like this.
Property. Buy a house, rent it to a family, they pay you money in return for living in it. That's how it generates money.
Deposit cryptoProperty. Buy a house, rent it to a family, they pay you money in return for living in it. That's how it generates money.
Deposit same value in FIAT
Someone swaps FIAT To Crypto
=
Interest earned for providing that liquidity to execute the conversion.
Same as Tesco or a hotel charging to convert currencies..
Are you Toni or Guy?
g4ry13 said:
Wrong!
Or at least partly wrong.
You only earn a dividend if the company pays a dividend. If you invest in growth stocks then you accept that you're not investing for a dividend. Facebook, Amazon, Netflix, Google and many others have never paid a dividend.
People have been buying these shares hoping they will be able to find someone to sell them to down the line for more than they originally paid. That actually sounds quite familiar, where have I heard that before?
.
But Or at least partly wrong.
You only earn a dividend if the company pays a dividend. If you invest in growth stocks then you accept that you're not investing for a dividend. Facebook, Amazon, Netflix, Google and many others have never paid a dividend.
People have been buying these shares hoping they will be able to find someone to sell them to down the line for more than they originally paid. That actually sounds quite familiar, where have I heard that before?
.
If there are 1000 Google shares when it has a value of £1m, then each share is worth £1000. If they use that money to buy servers, invest in marketing, increase their uses and make a profit. That profit is retained in the business instead of being paid out as a dividend. 3 years later the business has £3m in assets, then those shares are worth £3000 each.
You are "not just hoping someone else pays more", you are investing in a physical business which takes £X of materials, adds £Y of value (labour, processes etc) and sells it for a profit. As a shareholder you have a claim on this profit, now or in the future.
Are you really not able to understand the difference between investing in a business and buying crypto? Can you honestly not see the difference in almost every single aspect of what they do?
WY86 said:
Deposit crypto
Deposit same value in FIAT
Someone swaps FIAT To Crypto
=
Interest earned for providing that liquidity to execute the conversion.
Same as Tesco or a hotel charging to convert currencies..
Are you Toni or Guy?
This is entirely illogical. If you are earning money (say 20% per year) that is just an indication of a HUGE inefficiency in the cost of transaction, because you (and anyone else staking/pooling) are just a leech on the system. My understanding (and correct me if I'm wrong), was that you still have to pay the miners to record the transaction, actually do the "blockchain" bit. If all you are doing is providing short term liquidity then far from charging a commission like Tesco you are more like a loan shark offering a high interest loan for a short period until you can get to the bank and do the transaction much cheaper but which might take longer. Deposit same value in FIAT
Someone swaps FIAT To Crypto
=
Interest earned for providing that liquidity to execute the conversion.
Same as Tesco or a hotel charging to convert currencies..
Are you Toni or Guy?
IMO if you are having to offer short term liquidity at high cost that is a failure of the underlying process because it quite evidently cannot keep up with the number of transactions being requested.
Ari said:
Then explain it to us 'dullards' and 'boomers'.
Where does the money come from?
I can explain to you very simply how buying 1,000 shares in a company will generate dividends for you, or how investing in a property will earn you rent. Neither are foolproof, but there is at least a basic underlying mechanism for generating wealth.
Where is it in crypto beyond the hope that the next layer of people will pay more because they believe that the next level will pay even more?
Happy to be educated.
If you're happy to be educated then go seek education I would say. What your asking for is a fundamental argument - which is not my thing - ultimately time will be the only deciding factor. I see there are certain fundamental underpinnings which can hold up. Where does the money come from?
I can explain to you very simply how buying 1,000 shares in a company will generate dividends for you, or how investing in a property will earn you rent. Neither are foolproof, but there is at least a basic underlying mechanism for generating wealth.
Where is it in crypto beyond the hope that the next layer of people will pay more because they believe that the next level will pay even more?
Happy to be educated.
Personally, I see bitcoin as a highly volatile speculative asset. Excellent if you want to trade it and take profit. I don't know if it will last long term - it has the potential to - but no certainty.
So, I treat it as exactly that - highly volatile and speculative - take profits along the way, enjoy life.
As for the wider crypto space - 90% + is absolute vapourware and should be treated simply as a tradeable asset with eyes wide open that you can lose your shirt.
That leaves another 10% - somewhere in there is the next Amazon, Facebook etc we'll only begin to understand the scope of what will be possible with smart contracts in another 10+ years IMO. You have to have some understanding of the capability of the technology stack in order to appreciate it so of course not everyone does.
My take on the current state of the market is simply that with the kind of VC sums floating around, the onus is on marketing rather than real world delivery. This will evolve with time and the cream will rise to the top.
I'd say it's pretty foolish to right off a whole technology tier when we simply haven't understood what it's capable of yet.
As I say, you're probably in the wrong place if you're looking for education - we're on a web forum which is likely full of over 40-60 yr olds. People under 30 are on Reddit, Discord, 4chan - go take a deep dive over there if you really want to understand
My personal take is that there are other reasons behind the growth of crypto and it's definitely not the utopian vision of the future that many claim it to be. Digital currencies are here to stay - what form they take in the future is still an unanswered question.
Condi said:
This is entirely illogical. If you are earning money (say 20% per year) that is just an indication of a HUGE inefficiency in the cost of transaction, because you (and anyone else staking/pooling) are just a leech on the system. My understanding (and correct me if I'm wrong), was that you still have to pay the miners to record the transaction, actually do the "blockchain" bit. If all you are doing is providing short term liquidity then far from charging a commission like Tesco you are more like a loan shark offering a high interest loan for a short period until you can get to the bank and do the transaction much cheaper but which might take longer.
IMO if you are having to offer short term liquidity at high cost that is a failure of the underlying process because it quite evidently cannot keep up with the number of transactions being requested.
Why do you keep saying Miners crypto is bigger than just Bitcoin? it just highlights your utter lack of understanding. the problem is you have a blanket view of Crypto which your not interesting in learning or adopting a different stance which in turn makes this very hard to articulate in a way to make you understand.IMO if you are having to offer short term liquidity at high cost that is a failure of the underlying process because it quite evidently cannot keep up with the number of transactions being requested.
I will also add that myself and i am sure many others are not Crypto Maxi's and also have shares in the stock market as well, you know diversification..
Edited by WY86 on Friday 20th May 10:24
Edited by WY86 on Friday 20th May 10:24
WY86 said:
Why do you keep saying Miners crypto is bigger than just Bitcoin? it just highlights your utter lack of understanding. the problem is you have a blanket view of Crypto which your not interesting in learning or adopting a different stance which in turn makes this very hard to articulate in a way to make you understand.
How else are transactions recorded if not via mining? What is the process of recording it on the blockchain for these other coins? Gassing Station | Finance | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff