Crypto Currency Thread (Vol.2)
Discussion
dimots said:
Janet Yellen talking absolute b
ks haha. She's obviously going down the increasing centralization and regulation route. That means CBDC in its worst form. The perfect system already exists but they think they can make the old rules fit.
I never thought I'd see history play out like this in front of me, it is staggering to realise how people entrenched in out-dated ideas simply won't give up on their beliefs.
It’s not perfect though is it?ks haha. She's obviously going down the increasing centralization and regulation route. That means CBDC in its worst form. The perfect system already exists but they think they can make the old rules fit.I never thought I'd see history play out like this in front of me, it is staggering to realise how people entrenched in out-dated ideas simply won't give up on their beliefs.
For one, if I send X BTC to Y, then Y can look at my entire spending history relating to that transaction.
It’s a treasure trove of metadata I’d frankly rather not be public by design.
And you’re naive to think anything will be uncontrolled by a central authority.
The problem isn’t the system, it never has been. It’s the people at the wheel.
I think the right people at the wheel, is better than no people at the wheel… as much as you think the market is responsible/rational enough to be left to its own devices, I quite like the idea of centralisation. Just not the s
t show we have now who encourage moral hazard.Mr Whippy said:
It’s not perfect though is it?
For one, if I send X BTC to Y, then Y can look at my entire spending history relating to that transaction.
It’s a treasure trove of metadata I’d frankly rather not be public by design.
And you’re naive to think anything will be uncontrolled by a central authority.
The problem isn’t the system, it never has been. It’s the people at the wheel.
I think the right people at the wheel, is better than no people at the wheel… as much as you think the market is responsible/rational enough to be left to its own devices, I quite like the idea of centralisation. Just not the st show we have now who encourage moral hazard.
Have you actually tried tracing a transaction? It’s not as transparent as some people lazily suggest. You don’t reuse addresses so although a single transaction is to some degree traceable it doesn’t identify who you are or any history of unrelated payments.For one, if I send X BTC to Y, then Y can look at my entire spending history relating to that transaction.
It’s a treasure trove of metadata I’d frankly rather not be public by design.
And you’re naive to think anything will be uncontrolled by a central authority.
The problem isn’t the system, it never has been. It’s the people at the wheel.
I think the right people at the wheel, is better than no people at the wheel… as much as you think the market is responsible/rational enough to be left to its own devices, I quite like the idea of centralisation. Just not the s
t show we have now who encourage moral hazard.That’s using bitcoin for payment. With lightning privacy is enhanced further.
Also as for ‘the problem isn’t the system it’s the people at the wheel’ you kind of hit the nail on the head but you miss the obvious solution which is to remove the need for a wheel.
When I bought my bitcoin, that original lump in my ledger followed me through to the final transaction when I cashed out.
It was obvious to anyone in my string of transactions how much bitcoin I had.
The fact it’s even readable is a severe flaw for privacy and liberty.
I can spend physical cash easier and with more privacy.
Indeed physical gold is as good as anything really in that regard.
As said, a wheel is always required. It’s an emergent property of the interaction of human beings.
People might say they don’t want someone/thing as a central control, but when everything goes wrong they’ll soon ask for some controls.
Our issue is the system has been usurped by morons and thieves.
Now, if we all suddenly used bitcoin tomorrow, sans technical issues like tx rate and energy use etc, are you suggesting that there would never be any financial issues?
Or that society as a whole wouldn’t be braying for ‘some controls/oversight/regulations’ overlaying the system to stop XYZ from happening again?
There is ideology about what we all think we want. But there are the realities about what our society actually is, that dictates what we’d eventually get.
Even if we all adopted bitcoin, with enough participants it’d get forked away from what the minority adopters currently have and want, to what the dumb majority want.
It was obvious to anyone in my string of transactions how much bitcoin I had.
The fact it’s even readable is a severe flaw for privacy and liberty.
I can spend physical cash easier and with more privacy.
Indeed physical gold is as good as anything really in that regard.
As said, a wheel is always required. It’s an emergent property of the interaction of human beings.
People might say they don’t want someone/thing as a central control, but when everything goes wrong they’ll soon ask for some controls.
Our issue is the system has been usurped by morons and thieves.
Now, if we all suddenly used bitcoin tomorrow, sans technical issues like tx rate and energy use etc, are you suggesting that there would never be any financial issues?
Or that society as a whole wouldn’t be braying for ‘some controls/oversight/regulations’ overlaying the system to stop XYZ from happening again?
There is ideology about what we all think we want. But there are the realities about what our society actually is, that dictates what we’d eventually get.
Even if we all adopted bitcoin, with enough participants it’d get forked away from what the minority adopters currently have and want, to what the dumb majority want.
Mr Whippy said:
When I bought my bitcoin, that original lump in my ledger followed me through to the final transaction when I cashed out.
It was obvious to anyone in my string of transactions how much bitcoin I had.
The fact it’s even readable is a severe flaw for privacy and liberty.
I can spend physical cash easier and with more privacy.
Indeed physical gold is as good as anything really in that regard.
As said, a wheel is always required. It’s an emergent property of the interaction of human beings.
People might say they don’t want someone/thing as a central control, but when everything goes wrong they’ll soon ask for some controls.
Our issue is the system has been usurped by morons and thieves.
Now, if we all suddenly used bitcoin tomorrow, sans technical issues like tx rate and energy use etc, are you suggesting that there would never be any financial issues?
Or that society as a whole wouldn’t be braying for ‘some controls/oversight/regulations’ overlaying the system to stop XYZ from happening again?
There is ideology about what we all think we want. But there are the realities about what our society actually is, that dictates what we’d eventually get.
Even if we all adopted bitcoin, with enough participants it’d get forked away from what the minority adopters currently have and want, to what the dumb majority want.
I’m saying that centralised regulation of currency doesn’t work and there is a perfect solution in bitcoin.It was obvious to anyone in my string of transactions how much bitcoin I had.
The fact it’s even readable is a severe flaw for privacy and liberty.
I can spend physical cash easier and with more privacy.
Indeed physical gold is as good as anything really in that regard.
As said, a wheel is always required. It’s an emergent property of the interaction of human beings.
People might say they don’t want someone/thing as a central control, but when everything goes wrong they’ll soon ask for some controls.
Our issue is the system has been usurped by morons and thieves.
Now, if we all suddenly used bitcoin tomorrow, sans technical issues like tx rate and energy use etc, are you suggesting that there would never be any financial issues?
Or that society as a whole wouldn’t be braying for ‘some controls/oversight/regulations’ overlaying the system to stop XYZ from happening again?
There is ideology about what we all think we want. But there are the realities about what our society actually is, that dictates what we’d eventually get.
Even if we all adopted bitcoin, with enough participants it’d get forked away from what the minority adopters currently have and want, to what the dumb majority want.
This is still as true as ever:
https://www.activism.net/cypherpunk/manifesto.html
dimots said:
I’m saying that centralised regulation of currency doesn’t work and there is a perfect solution in bitcoin.
Perfect?It's perfect ie could displace all fiat currencies and we could all operate using satoshi's?
Ok so first hurdle, if you assume most currently wealthy people have little bitcoin you instantly reduce their wealth compared to say the wealthy Michael Saylor.
You aren't introducing (can't introduce) it with an equitable split, it's not perfect if the last adopter gets a few satoshi's for their fiat life savings, or a $billionaire ends up with one Bitcoin? or if someone buying a bitcoin tomorrow can retire off it?
digger_R said:
And the countdown to a 'convenient' CBDC continues.
My view is still the same as over a year ago - structural collapse and contagion. Bank runs have already started - we'll get some surprising news this week.
Your average Joe is about to get a whole lot poorer. Looking to see how Asia opens tonight.
Well, it's been over a fortnight. Maybe next week, eh? My view is still the same as over a year ago - structural collapse and contagion. Bank runs have already started - we'll get some surprising news this week.
Your average Joe is about to get a whole lot poorer. Looking to see how Asia opens tonight.
crypto zealots are hanging around waiting for the slightest lift fart in the industry to start trying to pump the 'banking is dying' message. However you know that it's only because they are holding crypto at a significant loss and are trying to pump it back. They don't give a st about the industry, humanity, a people's revolt or whatever, it's just a weak lever to try anything to reduce their losses.
t about the industry, humanity, a people's revolt or whatever, it's just a weak lever to try anything to reduce their losses.Blown2CV said:
crypto zealots are hanging around waiting for the slightest lift fart in the industry to start trying to pump the 'banking is dying' message. However you know that it's only because they are holding crypto at a significant loss and are trying to pump it back. They don't give a st about the industry, humanity, a people's revolt or whatever, it's just a weak lever to try anything to reduce their losses.
Impressive that you're aware about the holdings in everyone's wallets and the prices they paid to come out with this statement.t about the industry, humanity, a people's revolt or whatever, it's just a weak lever to try anything to reduce their losses.g4ry13 said:
Blown2CV said:
crypto zealots are hanging around waiting for the slightest lift fart in the industry to start trying to pump the 'banking is dying' message. However you know that it's only because they are holding crypto at a significant loss and are trying to pump it back. They don't give a st about the industry, humanity, a people's revolt or whatever, it's just a weak lever to try anything to reduce their losses.
Impressive that you're aware about the holdings in everyone's wallets and the prices they paid to come out with this statement.t about the industry, humanity, a people's revolt or whatever, it's just a weak lever to try anything to reduce their losses.Blown2CV said:
g4ry13 said:
Blown2CV said:
crypto zealots are hanging around waiting for the slightest lift fart in the industry to start trying to pump the 'banking is dying' message. However you know that it's only because they are holding crypto at a significant loss and are trying to pump it back. They don't give a st about the industry, humanity, a people's revolt or whatever, it's just a weak lever to try anything to reduce their losses.
Impressive that you're aware about the holdings in everyone's wallets and the prices they paid to come out with this statement.t about the industry, humanity, a people's revolt or whatever, it's just a weak lever to try anything to reduce their losses.g4ry13 said:
Blown2CV said:
g4ry13 said:
Blown2CV said:
crypto zealots are hanging around waiting for the slightest lift fart in the industry to start trying to pump the 'banking is dying' message. However you know that it's only because they are holding crypto at a significant loss and are trying to pump it back. They don't give a st about the industry, humanity, a people's revolt or whatever, it's just a weak lever to try anything to reduce their losses.
Impressive that you're aware about the holdings in everyone's wallets and the prices they paid to come out with this statement.t about the industry, humanity, a people's revolt or whatever, it's just a weak lever to try anything to reduce their losses.Blown2CV said:
g4ry13 said:
Blown2CV said:
g4ry13 said:
Blown2CV said:
crypto zealots are hanging around waiting for the slightest lift fart in the industry to start trying to pump the 'banking is dying' message. However you know that it's only because they are holding crypto at a significant loss and are trying to pump it back. They don't give a st about the industry, humanity, a people's revolt or whatever, it's just a weak lever to try anything to reduce their losses.
Impressive that you're aware about the holdings in everyone's wallets and the prices they paid to come out with this statement.t about the industry, humanity, a people's revolt or whatever, it's just a weak lever to try anything to reduce their losses.I use both banks and bitcoin. I believe bitcoin is way more resilient that the banking system because all the evidence I have seen convinces me that bitcoin is a true technological innovation on par with the internet, the combustion engine or the wheel. Banking is akin to insurance or gambling...it needn't be banned, and it might have a use, but it ought to adapt to use new technology or die.
Everything the banks are doing now with regulation, central banking and CBDCs is wrong. They are trying to use old systems to control a new technology. Like building a skyscraper and insisting on giving it a thatched roof.
I'm not necessarily an anarchist or a cypherpunk, but I think we have to embrace some of those ideals to formulate a new system to control finance in the future.
Everything the banks are doing now with regulation, central banking and CBDCs is wrong. They are trying to use old systems to control a new technology. Like building a skyscraper and insisting on giving it a thatched roof.
I'm not necessarily an anarchist or a cypherpunk, but I think we have to embrace some of those ideals to formulate a new system to control finance in the future.
It'll just be a shame if all your routes for getting in & out of your digital currency evaporate or get blocked, with Binance being next on the chopping block.
The way exchanges have acted & the sort of customers they’ve had could lead to a lot more restrictions being introduced against crypto assets.
The way exchanges have acted & the sort of customers they’ve had could lead to a lot more restrictions being introduced against crypto assets.
), cryptocurrency hasn't actually achieved much in the last decade except to make some early adopters / gamblers rich.dimots said:
I use both banks and bitcoin. I believe bitcoin is way more resilient that the banking system because all the evidence I have seen convinces me that bitcoin is a true technological innovation on par with the internet, the combustion engine or the wheel. Banking is akin to insurance or gambling...it needn't be banned, and it might have a use, but it ought to adapt to use new technology or die.
Everything the banks are doing now with regulation, central banking and CBDCs is wrong. They are trying to use old systems to control a new technology. Like building a skyscraper and insisting on giving it a thatched roof.
I'm not necessarily an anarchist or a cypherpunk, but I think we have to embrace some of those ideals to formulate a new system to control finance in the future.
In a bitcoin world, how do I borrow for long term needs? I'm an airline say, and I need to finance 25 new aircraft for 12 years. Oh, and I am based in Africa, so there is political risk involved, but bitcoin is meant to be fantastic for unstable places. The manufacturer prices them at 10,000 bitcoin each, and doesn't offer vendor financing. At least aircraft are easy for the lender to repossess - what if the investment is for a new subway system? Where do they get the bitcoin from - especially as it will be a while before there is any revenue from the project. Everything the banks are doing now with regulation, central banking and CBDCs is wrong. They are trying to use old systems to control a new technology. Like building a skyscraper and insisting on giving it a thatched roof.
I'm not necessarily an anarchist or a cypherpunk, but I think we have to embrace some of those ideals to formulate a new system to control finance in the future.
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