Crypto Currency Thread (Vol.2)
Discussion
Some Gump said:
Says the man who flip flops between "it's really private" to "it's really transparent" to "it's really private" repeatedly?
The bloke that claims to have transacted millions at a time in BTC (for free and instantly, when other seem to pay a fee and wait an age)?
Sir, there are a few people spouting drivel on these pages, and you are 3 of them. I'll see you on the moon.
Show me which statements are confusing you and we can discuss them.The bloke that claims to have transacted millions at a time in BTC (for free and instantly, when other seem to pay a fee and wait an age)?
Sir, there are a few people spouting drivel on these pages, and you are 3 of them. I'll see you on the moon.
dimots said:
Condi said:
Corrected for you. You might not like the facts, but they are facts. Crypto doesn't make or lose money, it simply moves money around. For SBF to walk off with a few hundred million how many people had to lose to fund that? If you add up all the scams, all the pump and dumps, and all the fraud it's very obvious lots of people have lost just to fund all the crime and incompetence!
This makes you sound even more stupid. You make a statement about bitcoin and justify it by talking about SBF and crypto? It’s Groundhog Day. Just don’t bother contributing, you have nothing to add.I'm not going to try and debate you, because arguing with a cult member never changes things, but I reserve the right to laugh at your delusions of understanding economics, finance, or just about anything.
wisbech said:
Scootersp said:
An all Bitcoin system is not so different to the old Gold standard with the good and bad bits that entailed.
My understanding is that it is different. Gold standard allows for fractional reserve banking (i.e. a bank could loan out almost all its deposits, only keeping a fraction in reserve, hoping that most depositors wouldn't ask to withdraw on the same day, then use their profits to increase the reserves, and create paper money. There was more money in circulation in 19th C Gold Standard UK than there was gold in the country)Edited by Scootersp on Wednesday 29th March 00:10
BTC doesn't have the same ability to create money supply as far as I know, it is sort of the whole point. You end up in a deflationary spiral from hell.
There isn’t sufficient fiat to cover all the banks currently is there, hence new cash loans using locked up collateral in worth-less bonds, to create liquidity.
Society creates extra over the top of the finite system.
They did it with gold. They’d do it with bitcoin.
I’m unsure how a bitcoin world might work, but let’s just imagine you have a property market like today.
Would anyone lend once it started dropping?
You’d see risk and want a higher return.
There would be no way to ease financial conditions when sentiment went bad.
Ironically, our flexible economic model lets us over-speculate and cause bubbles that pop.
But a model without such stimulus and ease of access to money would equally leave us exposed to speculative boom and bust… tulips anyone?
As I keep saying, boom and bust etc is human nature.
It’s a nature of reality, sewn into existence. The ebb and flow of population growth and decline, etc.
There is no stable equilibrium state.
Interesting manipulation of the openness of the crypto market.
The Secretive World Of MEV, Where Bots Front-Run Crypto Investors For Big Profits
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffkauflin/2022/10/1...
This is where the problem lies...
In the case of Ethereum, it takes 12 seconds to complete a transfer.
The Secretive World Of MEV, Where Bots Front-Run Crypto Investors For Big Profits
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffkauflin/2022/10/1...
This is where the problem lies...
In the case of Ethereum, it takes 12 seconds to complete a transfer.
Edited by Andy 308GTB on Tuesday 4th April 10:02
Andy 308GTB said:
Interesting manipulation of the openness of the crypto market.
The Secretive World Of MEV, Where Bots Front-Run Crypto Investors For Big Profits
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffkauflin/2022/10/1...
This is where the problem lies...
In the case of Ethereum, it takes 12 seconds to complete a transfer.
One can avoid being frontrun by using a swap protocol with MEV protection or by using an RPC like Flashbot which doesn't send transactions into the mempool.The Secretive World Of MEV, Where Bots Front-Run Crypto Investors For Big Profits
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffkauflin/2022/10/1...
This is where the problem lies...
In the case of Ethereum, it takes 12 seconds to complete a transfer.
Edited by Andy 308GTB on Tuesday 4th April 10:02
Of course, sandwhich attacks only take place when swapping currency onchain.
knk said:
Has (the crash in) cryptocurrency played a useful part in removing some of the flood of "money" created by quantitative easing from circulation?
Where did it go? I mean I see that people have lost money but when this happens its' gone somewhere hasn't it? It's not been 'removed' as such?Loads of people lost in Bernie Madoffs scheme but the money went somewhere?
So I found this about Squid coin
"BscScan, a Binance Smart Chain blockchain explorer, identified eight wallet addresses linked to the scam. One of the addresses, holding five percent of all SQUID in circulation,
swapped $3.38 million of SQUID to BNB before sending the funds through crypto mixer Tornado Cash.
Crypto exchange Binance launched an investigation into the project using a forensics tool and said they would report any findings to law enforcement.
To date, neither Binance nor law enforcement has not identified the team behind the rug-pull."
I'm trying to work through a scenario where the money is really removed, an individuals wealth has been reduced no doubt but in a scam, ponzi or plain old business failure the money has gone somewhere?
Scootersp said:
Where did it go? I mean I see that people have lost money but when this happens its' gone somewhere hasn't it? It's not been 'removed' as such?
Loads of people lost in Bernie Madoffs scheme but the money went somewhere?
So I found this about Squid coin
"BscScan, a Binance Smart Chain blockchain explorer, identified eight wallet addresses linked to the scam. One of the addresses, holding five percent of all SQUID in circulation,
swapped $3.38 million of SQUID to BNB before sending the funds through crypto mixer Tornado Cash.
Crypto exchange Binance launched an investigation into the project using a forensics tool and said they would report any findings to law enforcement.
To date, neither Binance nor law enforcement has not identified the team behind the rug-pull."
I'm trying to work through a scenario where the money is really removed, an individuals wealth has been reduced no doubt but in a scam, ponzi or plain old business failure the money has gone somewhere?
In a scam the money is lost to the scammer - usually 100% of it. In a Ponzi scheme some of the so called original investors do indeed make a return and usually a good one but that’s because it’s the later investors money that is used.In a business failure everyone including the original investor can lose money because it’s been spent. 3 entirely different scenarios. Loads of people lost in Bernie Madoffs scheme but the money went somewhere?
So I found this about Squid coin
"BscScan, a Binance Smart Chain blockchain explorer, identified eight wallet addresses linked to the scam. One of the addresses, holding five percent of all SQUID in circulation,
swapped $3.38 million of SQUID to BNB before sending the funds through crypto mixer Tornado Cash.
Crypto exchange Binance launched an investigation into the project using a forensics tool and said they would report any findings to law enforcement.
To date, neither Binance nor law enforcement has not identified the team behind the rug-pull."
I'm trying to work through a scenario where the money is really removed, an individuals wealth has been reduced no doubt but in a scam, ponzi or plain old business failure the money has gone somewhere?
I’ve no idea where Crypto fits into this though or if it does.
Scootersp said:
The point is the money changes hands it doesn't disappear it isn't removed from the system, just redistributed?
I guess redistributed covers those 3 yes but if you have money in the first 2 the authorities will probably view more as theft - I presume your point is more about can Crypto just disappear though ?Fraud and disappearance can still be inter linked.
Scootersp said:
Once 'money' is in the system it's hard for it to be removed......I think.
Have to agree with this, unless you buy gold, then bury it, it's very difficult to remove money completely from the system. It's just moved, not removed.If someone is getting poor, most of the time, someone else is getting rich.
Even then your money has gone to the Gold seller.
I think the only way money is removed from the system is if debt is repaid but the net debt is rarely contracting? It's created by lending into existance and so it's destroyed in the repayment?....but at the highest levels (central banks) debt doesn't contract meaningfully?
I think the only way money is removed from the system is if debt is repaid but the net debt is rarely contracting? It's created by lending into existance and so it's destroyed in the repayment?....but at the highest levels (central banks) debt doesn't contract meaningfully?
Mr Whippy said:
I think quantitative tightening is reducing the money supply.
Which is why the amount so far has been chicken feed. People with lots of money like having lots of money.
All assets are priced at elevated levels because of lots of money in circulation.
I agree Which is why the amount so far has been chicken feed. People with lots of money like having lots of money.
All assets are priced at elevated levels because of lots of money in circulation.
"Through quantitative tightening, the Federal Reserve reduces its supply of monetary reserves in order to tighten its balance sheet—and it does so simply by letting the bonds and other securities it has purchased reach maturity. When this happens, the Treasury department removes them from its cash balances, and thus the money it has “created” effectively disappears."
As you say though its been tiny compared to QE, seemingly the system can't cope with too much QT and it's only been getting rid of a tiny portion of the created QE money.
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