When/Will house prices cool down?
Discussion
brickwall said:
Yeah I saw that.
Off street parking for 1 car. One bathroom and a tiny en-suite, east-facing garden. And a bizarre layout as you say.
I think they’d be very lucky to get £1.75M. Let’s see.
But they’ve owned it for 20 years, so probably are mortgage free and in no rush to sell. This is their goldmine.
I’ve noticed a lot of the houses round there have that layout. Never seen it en masse before but having looked at others it’s not uncommon. Peculiar. Off street parking for 1 car. One bathroom and a tiny en-suite, east-facing garden. And a bizarre layout as you say.
I think they’d be very lucky to get £1.75M. Let’s see.
But they’ve owned it for 20 years, so probably are mortgage free and in no rush to sell. This is their goldmine.
I’m hopeful you’re right, good location for me, hopefully supply opens up soon as it’s creating silly kite flying behaviour having so few things on.
https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/146696159#/...
am I out of touch with what the going rate for service charges is now? I had a flat with a crippling service charge at 2k 13 years ago. I got rid of it because it was annoying me.
I would have guessed if you had asked me that something like the above, with a porter and a swimming pool etc, given the square footage of the property, would have been no more than £3500.
I see that its nearly 5k once the inevitable balancing payment comes in at the end of the year.
Add in a 5-10pc increase yearly the service charge on that place will be something around 10k in 10 years time.
who on earth is going to want to pay that? I know its "cheap" enough at 300k but 5k a year of taxed income?
am I out of touch with what the going rate for service charges is now? I had a flat with a crippling service charge at 2k 13 years ago. I got rid of it because it was annoying me.
I would have guessed if you had asked me that something like the above, with a porter and a swimming pool etc, given the square footage of the property, would have been no more than £3500.
I see that its nearly 5k once the inevitable balancing payment comes in at the end of the year.
Add in a 5-10pc increase yearly the service charge on that place will be something around 10k in 10 years time.
who on earth is going to want to pay that? I know its "cheap" enough at 300k but 5k a year of taxed income?
princeperch said:
https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/146696159#/...
am I out of touch with what the going rate for service charges is now? I had a flat with a crippling service charge at 2k 13 years ago. I got rid of it because it was annoying me.
I would have guessed if you had asked me that something like the above, with a porter and a swimming pool etc, given the square footage of the property, would have been no more than £3500.
I see that its nearly 5k once the inevitable balancing payment comes in at the end of the year.
Add in a 5-10pc increase yearly the service charge on that place will be something around 10k in 10 years time.
who on earth is going to want to pay that? I know its "cheap" enough at 300k but 5k a year of taxed income?
The charge doesn't seem commensurate with the property does it? I know that's not how it works - it pays for the pool and everything else - but the property is 'only' 300k, tiny and not that pleasant.am I out of touch with what the going rate for service charges is now? I had a flat with a crippling service charge at 2k 13 years ago. I got rid of it because it was annoying me.
I would have guessed if you had asked me that something like the above, with a porter and a swimming pool etc, given the square footage of the property, would have been no more than £3500.
I see that its nearly 5k once the inevitable balancing payment comes in at the end of the year.
Add in a 5-10pc increase yearly the service charge on that place will be something around 10k in 10 years time.
who on earth is going to want to pay that? I know its "cheap" enough at 300k but 5k a year of taxed income?
Actually, even with a pool and gym that sounds really steep. The SC is usually proportionate to sq. ft. so I don't know what the management firm are spending that on as it looks like a large block.
number2 said:
...so I don't know what the management firm are spending that on as it looks like a large block.
If it's anything like the retirement complex that the MIL moved into, excessive repair and maintenance invoices from the company run by the father in law of the director of the management firm!number2 said:
princeperch said:
https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/146696159#/...
am I out of touch with what the going rate for service charges is now? I had a flat with a crippling service charge at 2k 13 years ago. I got rid of it because it was annoying me.
I would have guessed if you had asked me that something like the above, with a porter and a swimming pool etc, given the square footage of the property, would have been no more than £3500.
I see that its nearly 5k once the inevitable balancing payment comes in at the end of the year.
Add in a 5-10pc increase yearly the service charge on that place will be something around 10k in 10 years time.
who on earth is going to want to pay that? I know its "cheap" enough at 300k but 5k a year of taxed income?
The charge doesn't seem commensurate with the property does it? I know that's not how it works - it pays for the pool and everything else - but the property is 'only' 300k, tiny and not that pleasant.am I out of touch with what the going rate for service charges is now? I had a flat with a crippling service charge at 2k 13 years ago. I got rid of it because it was annoying me.
I would have guessed if you had asked me that something like the above, with a porter and a swimming pool etc, given the square footage of the property, would have been no more than £3500.
I see that its nearly 5k once the inevitable balancing payment comes in at the end of the year.
Add in a 5-10pc increase yearly the service charge on that place will be something around 10k in 10 years time.
who on earth is going to want to pay that? I know its "cheap" enough at 300k but 5k a year of taxed income?
Actually, even with a pool and gym that sounds really steep. The SC is usually proportionate to sq. ft. so I don't know what the management firm are spending that on as it looks like a large block.
Massive legal case on that development for a while. No idea how they paid around 475k to rent their intercom service 
https://www.leaseholdknowledge.com/mr-spender-goes...
In a way though, it was one of the landmark buildings in CW and there are some seriously nice flats in that development, such a shame the idiots ruining these buildings and overall leasehold system.
https://www.leaseholdknowledge.com/mr-spender-goes...
In a way though, it was one of the landmark buildings in CW and there are some seriously nice flats in that development, such a shame the idiots ruining these buildings and overall leasehold system.
ooid said:
Massive legal case on that development for a while. No idea how they paid around 475k to rent their intercom service
https://www.leaseholdknowledge.com/mr-spender-goes...
In a way though, it was one of the landmark buildings in CW and there are some seriously nice flats in that development, such a shame the idiots ruining these buildings and overall leasehold system.
And this is the issue:-https://www.leaseholdknowledge.com/mr-spender-goes...
In a way though, it was one of the landmark buildings in CW and there are some seriously nice flats in that development, such a shame the idiots ruining these buildings and overall leasehold system.
Unfortunately, as the law currently stands, only the 103 participating leaseholders will get any costs protection. The landlord will be free to charge its legal costs to the other 333 leaseholders because they chose not to join the claim.
They cannot lose. The lease ties the leaseholders to pay the legal fees of the freeholder regardless
NomduJour said:
Wouldn’t want to be doing it at the moment given costs/availability - neighbour had her place gutted (back to a shell) last January, using trades via the interior designer. It’s still pretty much a shell now (albeit full of boxed bathroom and kitchen stuff), the builders only reappeared for a brief spell before Christmas.
In my area, the builders, are buying any house that is empty due to an inheritance, taking it back to a shell, and making it like new, before then selling it at 30% more. Was musing 4 bungalows, which in the 60s were exactly the same. The one which is clearly as per 1985, perfect but dated, it £330k. The one that's stuck in 1999 is £350k, the other 2, open plan with extentions, and marble flooring and bling £525k and £575k.
I have them on my watch list to see how quick they sell.
Pit Pony said:
In my area, the builders, are buying any house that is empty due to an inheritance, taking it back to a shell, and making it like new, before then selling it at 30% more.
Was musing 4 bungalows, which in the 60s were exactly the same. The one which is clearly as per 1985, perfect but dated, it £330k. The one that's stuck in 1999 is £350k, the other 2, open plan with extentions, and marble flooring and bling £525k and £575k.
I have them on my watch list to see how quick they sell.
Same is happening around me. ‘Lots’ of 60s houses being sold as chain free and 60s interior to boot. Most being snapped up but a few local builders, all systems go for a couple months and back on the market to sell or let. Was musing 4 bungalows, which in the 60s were exactly the same. The one which is clearly as per 1985, perfect but dated, it £330k. The one that's stuck in 1999 is £350k, the other 2, open plan with extentions, and marble flooring and bling £525k and £575k.
I have them on my watch list to see how quick they sell.
ooid said:
Massive legal case on that development for a while. No idea how they paid around 475k to rent their intercom service
https://www.leaseholdknowledge.com/mr-spender-goes...
In a way though, it was one of the landmark buildings in CW and there are some seriously nice flats in that development, such a shame the idiots ruining these buildings and overall leasehold system.
Each time I bought a flat with share of freehold I would start by asking the managing agents for all their tendering documents going back the last few years feeling relatively safe in the knowledge that no such paperwork existed. The next step was to ask them to explain the pricing of each service, safe in the knowledge that they couldn't do that. Once that was done it was time to ask them to find the savings which was then a slam dunk. Their primary concern was that the new quotes would reveal just how much had been being skimmed and for how long but they just needed reassurances and one assist was to step up the sinking fund contribution as all the costs were rebased to their correct level as a halving of the charge would trigger some which would make the agent dig their heels in. £4000/annum lift contracts went back to £1000. Lightbulb changing came off the emergency call out list so dropped from around £200 a pop to under £50. Garage gates I had split between two companies, one for servicing and one for emergencies. The annual cost plummeted as the number of emergency calls evaporated. Gardeners went back to quoting local instead of Titchmarsh appearance fees. Buildings insurance stopped using the broker it was and would fall 50-75%. https://www.leaseholdknowledge.com/mr-spender-goes...
In a way though, it was one of the landmark buildings in CW and there are some seriously nice flats in that development, such a shame the idiots ruining these buildings and overall leasehold system.
In NW London the managing agent scene was all bottom of the barrel Kosher Nostra in the 90s still and remains dominant to this day and they played every single trick in the book. The discounted fee to get the business and then the steady adding and ratcheting up of services. Even the external works tendering was covered off by using three firms in rotation that all knew whose turn it was to quote. All the costs increased every year well above inflation and all the businesses settled their books each Saturday morning.
And of course, just one resident can facilitate in huge cost ratcheting and almost every block has one which must be discovered and dealt with. They're the person who has always existed on someone else's money so in NW3 it's almost always a middle to late aged lady who has everything paid for all their life from daddy onwards. These are the people who call the emergency line at 2am because a bulb in the driveway wall is flickering. They call the agents every week to get someone to do something as it makes them feel important to have as many people as possible running around after them. You must isolate this cost base early on and implement changes that disarm them.
These new builds have seen this local practice turned into a core and to date, legitimised, business practice. It's quite remarkable. In the meantime, the genuine cost elements of everything have spiked hard over the last decade. A lightbulb used to be able to be changed by an old chap who walked around Hampstead all day picking up bulbs from the high street and fitting them. He also did the basic repair jobs and at the weekends made a good living doing the odd jobs for the house owners. Today one must use fully qualified doctors of lightbulb replacement who can only operate once the doctor of safety has assessed the patient. These heavy weight PhDs must only ever be transported in brand new vans and have all the correct certificates as well as a certificate in certification. The reality is that before the maintenance man sees a penny these days huge sums have been legitimately taken to cover the costs of administration, brand image and the numerous taxes and wages at each of those points.
Before any cowboy behaviour is even present the costs today for the most basic of work is huge. And of course, many new builds have external facades that require huge maintenance to keep looking respectable.
I look at recent housing developments around here and they've gone back to having the fronts of 25-50% of the houses painted. Right there is an endless and huge cost for everyone living there as there will almost certainly be upkeep clauses and many are collective so they all have to be repainted simultaneously. Again one can see the logic in doing so or the estate will within a decade start to resemble a Belfast council estate from the 80s but it's an unnecessary embedded cost burden from the outset.
Super slow in my town (just north of York)
Everything feels expensive
https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/146721944
https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/143726597
https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/145782668
https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/145455014
Appreciate some of these haven't been on the market that long, but just feels that some sellers are still in a COVID frenzy
Everything feels expensive
https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/146721944
https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/143726597
https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/145782668
https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/145455014
Appreciate some of these haven't been on the market that long, but just feels that some sellers are still in a COVID frenzy
DonkeyApple said:
. Even the external works tendering was covered off by using three firms in rotation that all knew whose turn it was to quote.
Nah, you have your actual business, one at your mum's, and one from the second postbox at one of the flats you rent to legitimately produce 3 quotes. Single point of cash receipt for the agent. 
s the lot of them.Pit Pony said:
mwstewart said:
Regulation of "service" charging is well overdue.
Ownership of the freehold jointly by apartment owners is well overdue, so that jointly they can manage the maintenance. 
Can you imagine just how many absolute nutters there are behind the closed doors of the average new build estate or complex? How many BTL landlords and then the enormous problem that it is some of these nutters and debt grifters which have the greatest desire to be on the committee.
We had one resident who was a high profile TV and media charity worker who knew exactly how to game the system to never pay service charge and how to manipulate just enough fellow residents to ensure nothing could be done. We simply had to pay her service charge in perpetuity and any attempts to change that was met rapidly with solicitor letters and the support of fans telling us we would be murdering children if we made her pay.
I've always only ever bough share of freehold but it's not the instant panacea made out and it is an overt commitment to a lot of work, hassle and PR and requires a specific skill in managing nutbags as you are not permitted to punch them back into civilised society.
princeperch said:
am I out of touch with what the going rate for service charges is now? I had a flat with a crippling service charge at 2k 13 years ago. I got rid of it because it was annoying me.
I would have guessed if you had asked me that something like the above, with a porter and a swimming pool etc, given the square footage of the property, would have been no more than £3500.
I see that its nearly 5k once the inevitable balancing payment comes in at the end of the year.
Add in a 5-10pc increase yearly the service charge on that place will be something around 10k in 10 years time.
who on earth is going to want to pay that? I know its "cheap" enough at 300k but 5k a year of taxed income?
I looked into buying a 3 bedroom apartment back in 2016 and the service charge then was £3500 a year. This was back when mortgage interest rates were 1.X%, it was actually cheaper in the long run to just get a bigger mortgage and buy a 3 bedroom house and pay the higher mortgage payments.I would have guessed if you had asked me that something like the above, with a porter and a swimming pool etc, given the square footage of the property, would have been no more than £3500.
I see that its nearly 5k once the inevitable balancing payment comes in at the end of the year.
Add in a 5-10pc increase yearly the service charge on that place will be something around 10k in 10 years time.
who on earth is going to want to pay that? I know its "cheap" enough at 300k but 5k a year of taxed income?
I wasn't prepared to pay £300 a month for someone to effectively cut the grass.
As you say, with an inflation linked 5 to 10% rise a year it soon becomes completely unviable.
RayDonovan said:
Super slow in my town (just north of York)
Everything feels expensive
https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/146721944
https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/143726597
https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/145782668
https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/145455014
Appreciate some of these haven't been on the market that long, but just feels that some sellers are still in a COVID frenzy
We tried to buy in summer 2021 in a village north of York at a semi-reasonable asking price.Everything feels expensive
https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/146721944
https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/143726597
https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/145782668
https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/145455014
Appreciate some of these haven't been on the market that long, but just feels that some sellers are still in a COVID frenzy
Offers were mad and it went for 15% over iirc.
Since then it’s just been like a feeding frenzy.
And good stuff is still going. But a lot isn’t. But the minimal quality action is keeping expectations up on everything.
I think the old £/sqm that predominated up till now is giving way to discrimination again.
Some of the stuff in Easingwold for example is flipping daft on price.
I’m sure there are some sweet spots but when we did a recce at the time it felt like it was over-developed with new builds, and a bit of an up-and-coming dive (inverse gentrification)
Prices were as if you were buying in a high jobs market city… but it’s a town in the middle of nowhere with a hateful run down into York.
I’d rather just like in York.
Sorry to anyone who lives there
A victim of its recent “successes” I’d think.
Mr Whippy said:
RayDonovan said:
Super slow in my town (just north of York)
Everything feels expensive
https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/146721944
https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/143726597
https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/145782668
https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/145455014
Appreciate some of these haven't been on the market that long, but just feels that some sellers are still in a COVID frenzy
We tried to buy in summer 2021 in a village north of York at a semi-reasonable asking price.Everything feels expensive
https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/146721944
https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/143726597
https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/145782668
https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/145455014
Appreciate some of these haven't been on the market that long, but just feels that some sellers are still in a COVID frenzy
Offers were mad and it went for 15% over iirc.
Since then it’s just been like a feeding frenzy.
And good stuff is still going. But a lot isn’t. But the minimal quality action is keeping expectations up on everything.
I think the old £/sqm that predominated up till now is giving way to discrimination again.
Some of the stuff in Easingwold for example is flipping daft on price.
I’m sure there are some sweet spots but when we did a recce at the time it felt like it was over-developed with new builds, and a bit of an up-and-coming dive (inverse gentrification)
Prices were as if you were buying in a high jobs market city… but it’s a town in the middle of nowhere with a hateful run down into York.
I’d rather just like in York.
Sorry to anyone who lives there
A victim of its recent “successes” I’d think.
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