Government Debt, QE and printing money.
Discussion
Ouroboros said:
Even with all the money spunked up the wall, still the UK is f
ked worse than Europe.
"On Wednesday, Mr Bailey told a European Central Bank forum that "the UK economy is probably weakening rather earlier and somewhat more than others".
He said: "I think that's been somewhat evident now for a few months."
Andrew Bailey is the Governor of the Bank of England and Chair of the Monetary Policy Committee, Financial Policy Committee and the Prudential Regulation .
Europe spend a LOT more on covid / some countries multiples of ours. Italy was £750b vs Uk £412b for example. ked worse than Europe."On Wednesday, Mr Bailey told a European Central Bank forum that "the UK economy is probably weakening rather earlier and somewhat more than others".
He said: "I think that's been somewhat evident now for a few months."
Andrew Bailey is the Governor of the Bank of England and Chair of the Monetary Policy Committee, Financial Policy Committee and the Prudential Regulation .
Welshbeef said:
Ouroboros said:
Even with all the money spunked up the wall, still the UK is fked worse than Europe.
"On Wednesday, Mr Bailey told a European Central Bank forum that "the UK economy is probably weakening rather earlier and somewhat more than others".
He said: "I think that's been somewhat evident now for a few months."
Andrew Bailey is the Governor of the Bank of England and Chair of the Monetary Policy Committee, Financial Policy Committee and the Prudential Regulation .
Europe spend a LOT more on covid / some countries multiples of ours. Italy was £750b vs Uk £412b for example. ked worse than Europe."On Wednesday, Mr Bailey told a European Central Bank forum that "the UK economy is probably weakening rather earlier and somewhat more than others".
He said: "I think that's been somewhat evident now for a few months."
Andrew Bailey is the Governor of the Bank of England and Chair of the Monetary Policy Committee, Financial Policy Committee and the Prudential Regulation .
Some could argue dumping trillions into the economy in such a short period overheated the economy and impacted directly the situation the gen population are facing.
Yes a lot have made billions of the back of the cash dump but the rest will now face the consequences. But who cares free money, wayhay.
Ouroboros said:
So spend more was the answer?
Some could argue dumping trillions into the economy in such a short period overheated the economy and impacted directly the situation the gen population are facing.
Yes a lot have made billions of the back of the cash dump but the rest will now face the consequences. But who cares free money, wayhay.
Well the UK should have less impact on this in reality and Italy France Germany USA drastically more pain. Happy days for the UK really. Some could argue dumping trillions into the economy in such a short period overheated the economy and impacted directly the situation the gen population are facing.
Yes a lot have made billions of the back of the cash dump but the rest will now face the consequences. But who cares free money, wayhay.
Ouroboros said:
Even with all the money spunked up the wall, still the UK is fked worse than Europe.
"On Wednesday, Mr Bailey told a European Central Bank forum that "the UK economy is probably weakening rather earlier and somewhat more than others".
He said: "I think that's been somewhat evident now for a few months."
Andrew Bailey is the Governor of the Bank of England and Chair of the Monetary Policy Committee, Financial Policy Committee and the Prudential Regulation .
Our economy was already weaker, and has long been less resilient. This was always going to happen, just as we did worse in the GFC and never properly recovered.ked worse than Europe."On Wednesday, Mr Bailey told a European Central Bank forum that "the UK economy is probably weakening rather earlier and somewhat more than others".
He said: "I think that's been somewhat evident now for a few months."
Andrew Bailey is the Governor of the Bank of England and Chair of the Monetary Policy Committee, Financial Policy Committee and the Prudential Regulation .
Structurally, our economy is really shot.
Quelle suprise. Well as least magic money tree Boris has left, might get some proper accountability now.
I think the Tories were gambling on the economy bouncing back, but lost that gamble.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-62079052.amp
UK government debt on unsustainable path unless taxes hiked, says OBR
I think the Tories were gambling on the economy bouncing back, but lost that gamble.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-62079052.amp
UK government debt on unsustainable path unless taxes hiked, says OBR
Ouroboros said:
Quelle suprise. Well as least magic money tree Boris has left, might get some proper accountability now.
I think the Tories were gambling on the economy bouncing back, but lost that gamble.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-62079052.amp
UK government debt on unsustainable path unless taxes hiked, says OBR
But you cannot hike taxes as we have a cost of living squeeze. I think the Tories were gambling on the economy bouncing back, but lost that gamble.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-62079052.amp
UK government debt on unsustainable path unless taxes hiked, says OBR
Welshbeef said:
Ouroboros said:
Quelle suprise. Well as least magic money tree Boris has left, might get some proper accountability now.
I think the Tories were gambling on the economy bouncing back, but lost that gamble.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-62079052.amp
UK government debt on unsustainable path unless taxes hiked, says OBR
But you cannot hike taxes as we have a cost of living squeeze. I think the Tories were gambling on the economy bouncing back, but lost that gamble.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-62079052.amp
UK government debt on unsustainable path unless taxes hiked, says OBR
I do business in Japan where the corporation tax rate is well over 30%. Frankly I'd be in favour of a hybrid Japan-Estonia model (in Estonia, CT is only payable on profits distributed - those retained for use in the business aren't taxed - it encourages beneficial behaviours).
Welshbeef said:
But you cannot hike taxes as we have a cost of living squeeze.
I thought this quote was pertinent.''the OBR said the government had already spent as much this year, 1.25% of GDP, to help households cope with the cost-of-living crisis as it did supporting the economy through the 2008 financial crisis.''
What I find odd is how everyone buries their head in the sand and doesnt actually want to address, this gigantic issue looming.
Ouroboros said:
Welshbeef said:
But you cannot hike taxes as we have a cost of living squeeze.
I thought this quote was pertinent.''the OBR said the government had already spent as much this year, 1.25% of GDP, to help households cope with the cost-of-living crisis as it did supporting the economy through the 2008 financial crisis.''
What I find odd is how everyone buries their head in the sand and doesnt actually want to address, this gigantic issue looming.
That's what other countries (USA, for instance) complained about - that we didn't do anything like enough to keep the economy on the rails. What followed was a long period of stagnation.Don't forget there's a difference between "money spent" and QE/etc. The amount of money put into the economy was huge, but most of it wasn't Govt spending.
skwdenyer said:
That really just points up how little was done to support the economy in 2008 That's what other countries (USA, for instance) complained about - that we didn't do anything like enough to keep the economy on the rails. What followed was a long period of stagnation.
Don't forget there's a difference between "money spent" and QE/etc. The amount of money put into the economy was huge, but most of it wasn't Govt spending.
12 years under Tory rule but still Labour's fault lol That's what other countries (USA, for instance) complained about - that we didn't do anything like enough to keep the economy on the rails. What followed was a long period of stagnation.Don't forget there's a difference between "money spent" and QE/etc. The amount of money put into the economy was huge, but most of it wasn't Govt spending.
Ouroboros said:
skwdenyer said:
That really just points up how little was done to support the economy in 2008 That's what other countries (USA, for instance) complained about - that we didn't do anything like enough to keep the economy on the rails. What followed was a long period of stagnation.
Don't forget there's a difference between "money spent" and QE/etc. The amount of money put into the economy was huge, but most of it wasn't Govt spending.
12 years under Tory rule but still Labour's fault lol That's what other countries (USA, for instance) complained about - that we didn't do anything like enough to keep the economy on the rails. What followed was a long period of stagnation.Don't forget there's a difference between "money spent" and QE/etc. The amount of money put into the economy was huge, but most of it wasn't Govt spending.
Ouroboros said:
skwdenyer said:
That really just points up how little was done to support the economy in 2008 That's what other countries (USA, for instance) complained about - that we didn't do anything like enough to keep the economy on the rails. What followed was a long period of stagnation.
Don't forget there's a difference between "money spent" and QE/etc. The amount of money put into the economy was huge, but most of it wasn't Govt spending.
12 years under Tory rule but still Labour's fault lol That's what other countries (USA, for instance) complained about - that we didn't do anything like enough to keep the economy on the rails. What followed was a long period of stagnation.Don't forget there's a difference between "money spent" and QE/etc. The amount of money put into the economy was huge, but most of it wasn't Govt spending.
Brown tried to keep spending up. Cameron killed it. I should have said “post 2008” - but I also think Brown / Darling under-did some of it, and spent too much on (for instance) nationalising banks at too-high valuations.
(edited for spelling)
Edited by skwdenyer on Friday 8th July 17:24
skwdenyer said:
Have you read any of my posts? I’m usually the lone voice pointing up the damage done by austerity under Cameron / Osborne
Brown tried to keep spending up. Cameron killed it. I Shiism have said “post 2008” - but I also think Brown / Darling under-did some of it, and spent too much on (for instance) nationalising banks at too-high valuations.
Ifs and buts and so far it appears we are net “up” are we not on that part nationalisation. Brown tried to keep spending up. Cameron killed it. I Shiism have said “post 2008” - but I also think Brown / Darling under-did some of it, and spent too much on (for instance) nationalising banks at too-high valuations.
Has the govt offered less impact? Pension funds take a tanking harming our pensions. So I’m not sure there is that much in it TBH
skwdenyer said:
Have you read any of my posts? I’m usually the lone voice pointing up the damage done by austerity under Cameron / Osborne
Brown tried to keep spending up. Cameron killed it. I Shiism have said “post 2008” - but I also think Brown / Darling under-did some of it, and spent too much on (for instance) nationalising banks at too-high valuations.
Wasn't there a string of broken promises made to try and reduce the defecit yet increased it.Brown tried to keep spending up. Cameron killed it. I Shiism have said “post 2008” - but I also think Brown / Darling under-did some of it, and spent too much on (for instance) nationalising banks at too-high valuations.
I think the simple thing is giving people money buys votes but long term destroys the future.
Welshbeef said:
skwdenyer said:
Have you read any of my posts? I’m usually the lone voice pointing up the damage done by austerity under Cameron / Osborne
Brown tried to keep spending up. Cameron killed it. I Shiism have said “post 2008” - but I also think Brown / Darling under-did some of it, and spent too much on (for instance) nationalising banks at too-high valuations.
Ifs and buts and so far it appears we are net “up” are we not on that part nationalisation. Brown tried to keep spending up. Cameron killed it. I Shiism have said “post 2008” - but I also think Brown / Darling under-did some of it, and spent too much on (for instance) nationalising banks at too-high valuations.
Has the govt offered less impact? Pension funds take a tanking harming our pensions. So I’m not sure there is that much in it TBH
General Motors is the model we should have adapted IMHO, with Bank of England acting as a source of refinancing.
If you strip out those investments, our stimulus and investment numbers were really not good. Austerity just added more mails to the coffin of our economic non-recovery.
skwdenyer said:
We may be net "up" *but* the money used to buy those shares was counted as if it were support for the economy. It wasn't. In all honesty, we could have (and possibly should have) nationalised those banks at fire-sale prices - there was no reason for shareholders to be shielded from the pain.
General Motors is the model we should have adapted IMHO, with Bank of England acting as a source of refinancing.
If you strip out those investments, our stimulus and investment numbers were really not good. Austerity just added more mails to the coffin of our economic non-recovery.
Austerity is reduced spendingGeneral Motors is the model we should have adapted IMHO, with Bank of England acting as a source of refinancing.
If you strip out those investments, our stimulus and investment numbers were really not good. Austerity just added more mails to the coffin of our economic non-recovery.
That simply didn’t happen
skwdenyer said:
Taxes =/= personal income or consumption taxes. We're not a high-tax economy overall (percentage of GDP). We're just going to have to start taxing things that other people already do - property, employment, etc. And we're going to have to stop everyone else in the world buying our assets and pushing the prices up.
I do business in Japan where the corporation tax rate is well over 30%. Frankly I'd be in favour of a hybrid Japan-Estonia model (in Estonia, CT is only payable on profits distributed - those retained for use in the business aren't taxed - it encourages beneficial behaviours).
Ultimately, they do.I do business in Japan where the corporation tax rate is well over 30%. Frankly I'd be in favour of a hybrid Japan-Estonia model (in Estonia, CT is only payable on profits distributed - those retained for use in the business aren't taxed - it encourages beneficial behaviours).
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