Rubbish investment period? October '21 present

[rufusgti]

Hi
Just a check in really as I'm slightly bemused by what has been a very underwhelming start to standard type investments.


I've basically been paying in an amount since October 2021 into a selection of 3 funds. I won't mention which funds as I'm keen to see how others have done in the same time frame. For example a friend went in at the same time and is 9% up on what they have invested. That seems like a nice figure as a when I look at mine I'm down on all three funds. Not by much, between 20 and 150 quid down on total investments.

Allowing for inflation that's a shocking loss of what was supposed to be a safe and steady investment.

All fun and games obviously. I've not really come here to moan about my first world problems. I'm just interested in what others in the real world have achieved in the time frame in other funds.

Many thanks.

[HustleRussell]

Right now is not a great time because of an international banks wobble this month. How was it doing a month ago?

[PositronicRay]

I'm just hanging on in there for what it's worth.

Funny few yrs, Brexit, Covid, and War have all bought challenges and opportunities. But mostly challenges

We haven't had a proper recession for a few years either.

[Mr Whippy]

Nov ‘21, after about 13 years interest rates finally started to rise.

Record inflation inbound, record interest rate rises, record gov debt, record wealth disparity, record stock markets.


Interesting times.


Stuff generally doesn’t move sideways, and I can’t see us at the foot of a growth period and utopia… soooo.

Oct ‘21 probably not the best time to be investing for big gains ala Oct 2011 onwards.

Edited by Mr Whippy on Tuesday 21st March 17:02

[vulture1]

unless you are retiring and looking to sell i'd say its been great time to invest. you can buy more for less.

[Kuwahara]

vulture1 said:

unless you are retiring and looking to sell i'd say its been great time to invest. you can buy more for less.

This…I have some stocks (not Warren Buffett levels)that are down the last few months but long term it’s what they do ,buy stuff low if you can and keep long term,although I’d avoid Cazoo even though they are junk bonds at the minute…

[Jon39]

rufusgti said:

Just a check in really as I'm slightly bemused by what has been a very underwhelming start to standard type investments. ...

I've basically been paying in an amount since October 2021 into a selection of 3 funds. ...

I'm just interested in what others in the real world have achieved in the time frame in other funds.

1 Oct 2021 ............... Fund .......... FTSE 100 (ex divs)
31 Dec 2021 ......... + 9.26% ......... + 5.09%

1 Jan 2022
30 Dec 2022 ........ + 15.88% ......... - 0.28%

1 Jan 2023
17 Mar 2023 .......... - 2.87% .......... - 1.56%

Overall
1 Oct 2021
17 Mar 2023 .......... +22.98% ........ + 3.16%


Note; The UK Stock Market performed better than many overseas markets during 2022.
If your funds had NASDAQ holdings in 2022, it was not an easy period.
Luck helped me during 2022, having oil exploration holdings.

[rufusgti]

Jon39 said:

rufusgti said:

Just a check in really as I'm slightly bemused by what has been a very underwhelming start to standard type investments. ...

I've basically been paying in an amount since October 2021 into a selection of 3 funds. ...

I'm just interested in what others in the real world have achieved in the time frame in other funds.

1 Oct 2021 ............... Fund .......... FTSE 100 (ex divs)
31 Dec 2021 ......... + 9.26% ......... + 5.09%

1 Jan 2022
30 Dec 2022 ........ + 15.88% ......... - 0.28%

1 Jan 2023
17 Mar 2023 .......... - 2.87% .......... - 1.56%

Overall
1 Oct 2021
17 Mar 2023 .......... +22.98% ........ + 3.16%


Note; The UK Stock Market performed better than many overseas markets during 2022.
If your funds had NASDAQ holdings in 2022, it was not an easy period.
Luck helped me during 2022, having oil exploration holdings.

Good grief, that's really something. Well done!

One of the funds I buy into is a UK market fund. That's not done well either. Do you manage your own shares?

[Jon39]

rufusgti said:

Good grief, that's really something. Well done!

One of the funds I buy into is a UK market fund. That's not done well either. Do you manage your own shares?

Thank you.

The answer is yes, but manage is not really an appropriate word, because I don't do much, the holdings rarely change.
I suppose it is the Warren Buffett strategy. Buy and if everything works, leave it alone.

One forced change recently, was a takeover of Appreciate Group by Paypoint.
It was mostly cash, but also some shares, which has resulted in a holding that is too small.
The unwritten rule therefore, is either sell or buy more, to achieve a balanced worthwhile holding.
Paypoint just seems to be a 'jogging along' business, so I have not yet decided what to do.
I want businesses that hopefully are making progresss.

A facinating subject. Having the right temperament, learning and patience, I have discovered are important.
Good luck with your investments.

[gotoPzero]

rufusgti said:

Hi
Just a check in really as I'm slightly bemused by what has been a very underwhelming start to standard type investments.


I've basically been paying in an amount since October 2021 into a selection of 3 funds. I won't mention which funds as I'm keen to see how others have done in the same time frame. For example a friend went in at the same time and is 9% up on what they have invested. That seems like a nice figure as a when I look at mine I'm down on all three funds. Not by much, between 20 and 150 quid down on total investments.

Allowing for inflation that's a shocking loss of what was supposed to be a safe and steady investment.

All fun and games obviously. I've not really come here to moan about my first world problems. I'm just interested in what others in the real world have achieved in the time frame in other funds.

Many thanks.

The simple answer is the markets have pretty much done nothing other than fall since the start of 2022. So you had probably 3 months of a rising market. After that the market has been making lower lows until very recently. If you timed it well and bought at the lows then you might have seen some results but in reality the trend line is gliding down so for you only to be down a small sum is ok in my view.

Markets have been on a recovery since Christmas. So things are looking better.

But the reality is we are almost certainly going to see corporate profits fall in 2023 and 2024 which means you might have more pain ahead.

Thats why you just have to start thinking about when your funds are down you are just buying at a discount.

So long as your investment time frame is suitable to the funds you are invested in then I would not worry.

It might be better also if you said what fund you are in.

HTH. IANAFA

[superpp]

I'm in the same boat as OP.
Started in 21 and currently only just up, negligible amount.

I'm in Vanguard Lifestyle 80 and FTSE Global Cap.

[Correvor]

superpp said:

I'm in the same boat as OP.
Started in 21 and currently only just up, negligible amount.

I'm in Vanguard Lifestyle 80 and FTSE Global Cap.

Bought in to FTSE global cap nearly exactly 1yr ago - am down a little over 4% after fees, badly timed but previously Vanguard and Fundsmith did me very well so not too concerned, just that particular purchase wasn't well timed.

[cholo]

Wish i was up.

About 8% down on my santander s&s isa from beginning of 21.

[GT03ROB]

rufusgti said:

Allowing for inflation that's a shocking loss of what was supposed to be a safe and steady investment.

Probably as well to recognise there is no such thing as a safe investment when you are into the world of stocks & shares.

[alscar]

rufusgti said:

Hi
Just a check in really as I'm slightly bemused by what has been a very underwhelming start to standard type investments.


I've basically been paying in an amount since October 2021 into a selection of 3 funds. I won't mention which funds as I'm keen to see how others have done in the same time frame. For example a friend went in at the same time and is 9% up on what they have invested. That seems like a nice figure as a when I look at mine I'm down on all three funds. Not by much, between 20 and 150 quid down on total investments.

Allowing for inflation that's a shocking loss of what was supposed to be a safe and steady investment.

All fun and games obviously. I've not really come here to moan about my first world problems. I'm just interested in what others in the real world have achieved in the time frame in other funds.

Many thanks.

Broadly speaking from October 21 to the end of December 22 my overall pots invested in various different vehicles ( a mixture of ISA’s , IIB’s ,UT’s and Private Pensions ) but all in Funds per se went down around 7% averaging it out.
2023 until a few weeks ago averaged out around + 4%.
I haven’t included my VCT and EIS investments in various Funds as by their very nature are far more “ risky “ being largely much newer entities.
That said they do include such notables as Gusto and Bloom and Wild where the returns ( ignoring tax relief ) have been in excess of 10 times the original investments.
Any SM investments are long term so the above date spans are all meaningless.
Jon has indeed done well over that period and probably previously but iirc 100% of his holdings are in individual companies held long term so not in actual composite Funds per se so I wouldn’t try and emulate him as a relative “ beginner “.
Good luck with the future returns and don’t forget until you sell and crystallise the loss you haven’t lost a penny - ignoring inflation obviously.

[Giantt]

Jayzus....when you said rubbish investment period,then £150 down,mine would make you cry since last Feb

[Jon39]

alscar said:

Jon has indeed done well over that period and probably previously but iirc 100% of his holdings are in individual companies held long term so not in actual composite Funds per se so I wouldn’t try and emulate him as a relative “ beginner “.

My advice to any beginner investors who want to know, would be to certainly start and continue with funds, but also buy a few holdings in individual companies.

The reasons being, you will have a greater interest in following and learning about those particular businesses and gain a quicker practical understanding of the many aspects about how investment works.

I and many others often begin with tiny companies, thinking they will grow fast and we will make a fortune in 6 months.
It did not take long for me to realise, that short-term trading (gambling) in small or new business, is not the way to go.
Can be exciting, but time consuming and very risky.

With giant, long established, profitable businesses (often considered boring investments), there can still be significant share price increases. An example last year was Shell, which had a share price increase of 43%, plus four dividend payments. There were quite a few other large firms above 20%. The Index is of course purely an average.
Obviously oil and gas exploration companies are very cyclical business, so although they are one of my core sector holdings, down periods have to be expected, although dividend income has continued fairly reliably, because they have financial strength (think only one reduction by Shell since 1950).

Edited by Jon39 on Wednesday 22 March 12:17

[ukwill]

Entirely depends on your investment horizon. You just happened to pick a bad time to begin, but if you believe your investment choice is still the right one, you should fill your boots whilst shares are at their current price(s).

These threads are nothing without a Buffet quote: Be Fearful When Others Are Greedy and Greedy When Others Are Fearful.

Or buy into a managed fund and then at least you can blame someone else for poor performance.

[LeoSayer]

For me as follows (using Jon's date ranges):

01.Oct.21 to 31.Dec.21 +5.9%
01.Jan.22 to 31.Dec.22 -7.2% (with a low of -10% at one point)
01.Jan.23 to 18.Mar.22 +1.7%
Overall -0.1%

This is largely from holdings of unhedged global equity index tracker funds.

Considering everything that has happened during this period I'm not unhappy with that.

I avoided the worst of the US market drops because of the strengthened USD against GBP.
I avoided the bond market sell off last year because I didn't hold bonds. Now I do and my exposure is slowly increasing because all my future pension contributions get invested into bond funds.

[rufusgti]

Just want to say thanks for what have been very generous replies. It seems the funds I picked have pretty much done what the markets have done, which is all one would expect I suppose.
Currently moving house so I've paused paying in monthly but I'm spurred on by the advice to fill ya boots at these times. So will certainly get back at it once the move is complete.