Tax refund gone wrong
Discussion
I'm a train driver. One of the guys in the Mess came in and said he'd got a tax refund from one of the big companies, you'd probably recognise the name, I knew them from my Army days.
Apparently because we don't have our breaks in one location we can claim for food expenses. I believe this to be true but as it caught on apparently HMRC pushed back. This company then emailed some of us to say they were not going to pursue our claims any further and they closed our accounts with them. I'd say about half got a payout, half got the sorry emails.
Anyway today I got 3 fines for late self assessment for the last 3 years.
This company have washed their hands of it and left us to deal with it ourselves. None of us would have bothered to do it if we'd known the hassle it would cause.
Surely the onus is on them to fix whatever they've screwed up? They were acting as our accountants no?
Wondering if there's any legislation or professional standards or body I can quote to get them to do the legwork?
Or do I just have to suck it up and appeal the fines myself.
Apparently because we don't have our breaks in one location we can claim for food expenses. I believe this to be true but as it caught on apparently HMRC pushed back. This company then emailed some of us to say they were not going to pursue our claims any further and they closed our accounts with them. I'd say about half got a payout, half got the sorry emails.
Anyway today I got 3 fines for late self assessment for the last 3 years.
This company have washed their hands of it and left us to deal with it ourselves. None of us would have bothered to do it if we'd known the hassle it would cause.
Surely the onus is on them to fix whatever they've screwed up? They were acting as our accountants no?
Wondering if there's any legislation or professional standards or body I can quote to get them to do the legwork?
Or do I just have to suck it up and appeal the fines myself.
ChocolateFrog said:
I'm a train driver. One of the guys in the Mess came in and said he'd got a tax refund from one of the big companies, you'd probably recognise the name, I knew them from my Army days.
Apparently because we don't have our breaks in one location we can claim for food expenses. I believe this to be true but as it caught on apparently HMRC pushed back. This company then emailed some of us to say they were not going to pursue our claims any further and they closed our accounts with them. I'd say about half got a payout, half got the sorry emails.
Anyway today I got 3 fines for late self assessment for the last 3 years.
This company have washed their hands of it and left us to deal with it ourselves. None of us would have bothered to do it if we'd known the hassle it would cause.
Surely the onus is on them to fix whatever they've screwed up? They were acting as our accountants no?
Wondering if there's any legislation or professional standards or body I can quote to get them to do the legwork?
Or do I just have to suck it up and appeal the fines myself.
I'm confused.Apparently because we don't have our breaks in one location we can claim for food expenses. I believe this to be true but as it caught on apparently HMRC pushed back. This company then emailed some of us to say they were not going to pursue our claims any further and they closed our accounts with them. I'd say about half got a payout, half got the sorry emails.
Anyway today I got 3 fines for late self assessment for the last 3 years.
This company have washed their hands of it and left us to deal with it ourselves. None of us would have bothered to do it if we'd known the hassle it would cause.
Surely the onus is on them to fix whatever they've screwed up? They were acting as our accountants no?
Wondering if there's any legislation or professional standards or body I can quote to get them to do the legwork?
Or do I just have to suck it up and appeal the fines myself.
You have used a company to claim for a tax break on a specific expense.
HMRC have fined you for late submission of self-assessment.
Surely the two things are completely seperate? The company you've used will not be responsible for submitting your self-assessment on time - you are?
Muzzer79 said:
I'm confused.
You have used a company to claim for a tax break on a specific expense.
HMRC have fined you for late submission of self-assessment.
Surely the two things are completely seperate? The company you've used will not be responsible for submitting your self-assessment on time - you are?
They definitely are. You have used a company to claim for a tax break on a specific expense.
HMRC have fined you for late submission of self-assessment.
Surely the two things are completely seperate? The company you've used will not be responsible for submitting your self-assessment on time - you are?
I've never submitted a self assessment in my life. It stems from whatever they've done.
ChocolateFrog said:
PM3 said:
What we talking about here ? fines value vs pay-out received ( or not )
Payout £0Edited by PM3 on Monday 18th March 14:30
Fines 3 x £100.
I genuinely don't know the answer to this; can you just pay £300 straight away ....and then appeal ?
ChocolateFrog said:
They definitely are.
I've never submitted a self assessment in my life. It stems from whatever they've done.
Did you have a written contract or agreement with these people ?I've never submitted a self assessment in my life. It stems from whatever they've done.
Presumably you had nothing in the form of any papers from HMRC over the previous 3 year period ?
They certainly don’t sound like accountants so perhaps they aren’t and you have been unfortunately misled - did you hand them any money for so called fees ? I
ChocolateFrog said:
Muzzer79 said:
I'm confused.
You have used a company to claim for a tax break on a specific expense.
HMRC have fined you for late submission of self-assessment.
Surely the two things are completely seperate? The company you've used will not be responsible for submitting your self-assessment on time - you are?
They definitely are. You have used a company to claim for a tax break on a specific expense.
HMRC have fined you for late submission of self-assessment.
Surely the two things are completely seperate? The company you've used will not be responsible for submitting your self-assessment on time - you are?
I've never submitted a self assessment in my life. It stems from whatever they've done.
Countdown said:
ChocolateFrog said:
They definitely are.
I've never submitted a self assessment in my life. It stems from whatever they've done.
Assuming you're 100% PAYE then why were HMRC expecting you to submit Self assessment returns?I've never submitted a self assessment in my life. It stems from whatever they've done.
Simply ask why you are expected to file a Self Assessment?
Follow the flow here ... https://www.tax.service.gov.uk/claim-tax-relief-ex...
Select all the expenses you want to claim
Travel and overnight expenses
This includes the money you spent on food or overnight stays that your employer has not paid back. You must keep records of what you've spent.
Who are you claiming expenses for?
Myself.
Are you claiming for expenses after 5 April 2019?
Yes.
Did you pay tax in each of the years you are claiming for?
Yes.
Do you complete Self Assessment returns?
No.
Are you claiming expenses of more than £2,500 in a single tax year?
Yes.
You can only claim these expenses using Self Assessment.
Select all the expenses you want to claim
Travel and overnight expenses
This includes the money you spent on food or overnight stays that your employer has not paid back. You must keep records of what you've spent.
Who are you claiming expenses for?
Myself.
Are you claiming for expenses after 5 April 2019?
Yes.
Did you pay tax in each of the years you are claiming for?
Yes.
Do you complete Self Assessment returns?
No.
Are you claiming expenses of more than £2,500 in a single tax year?
Yes.
You can only claim these expenses using Self Assessment.
How were you going about making the claim for expenses?
Were you signed up to complete Self Assessment tax return forms?
If you were, HMRC would have sent you letter just after 6 April of the relevant tax years telling you of the need to submist a Self Assessment tax return. Those letters should have been sent to your home address. Do you recall ever getting any of these letters?
How has HMRC notiofied you that you have been fined? Have they sent you a letter?
If they have, why not scan the letter and let us have a look at it to see what they are saying. Obviously, before you scan or take a photo of the letter, blank out sensitive information such as your name and address and tax and NI numbers.
I would like to see the wording of the letter.
Were you signed up to complete Self Assessment tax return forms?
If you were, HMRC would have sent you letter just after 6 April of the relevant tax years telling you of the need to submist a Self Assessment tax return. Those letters should have been sent to your home address. Do you recall ever getting any of these letters?
How has HMRC notiofied you that you have been fined? Have they sent you a letter?
If they have, why not scan the letter and let us have a look at it to see what they are saying. Obviously, before you scan or take a photo of the letter, blank out sensitive information such as your name and address and tax and NI numbers.
I would like to see the wording of the letter.
If they were appointed as his tax agent then the correspondence requesting the self assessment would have gone to them.
Appoint someone to deal with HMRC on your behalf
You can authorise someone else to deal with HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC) for you, for example an accountant, friend or relative.
If you have to fill in a Self Assessment tax return, HMRC will send all correspondence to the person you’ve authorised - except tax bills or refunds. Otherwise, HMRC will continue to write to you.
Appoint someone to deal with HMRC on your behalf
You can authorise someone else to deal with HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC) for you, for example an accountant, friend or relative.
If you have to fill in a Self Assessment tax return, HMRC will send all correspondence to the person you’ve authorised - except tax bills or refunds. Otherwise, HMRC will continue to write to you.
As Eric says, the wording of the letter is important.
Forget going after the firm, that'll be a complete waste of time.
Depending what the letter says, you'll probably be best contacting HMRC and advising them the firm signed you up for self-assessment in error and that you are PAYE and that you have never had any need to complete a tax return.
Forget going after the firm, that'll be a complete waste of time.
Depending what the letter says, you'll probably be best contacting HMRC and advising them the firm signed you up for self-assessment in error and that you are PAYE and that you have never had any need to complete a tax return.
Bluequay said:
If they were appointed as his tax agent then the correspondence requesting the self assessment would have gone to them.
Appoint someone to deal with HMRC on your behalf
You can authorise someone else to deal with HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC) for you, for example an accountant, friend or relative.
If you have to fill in a Self Assessment tax return, HMRC will send all correspondence to the person you’ve authorised - except tax bills or refunds. Otherwise, HMRC will continue to write to you.
Not necessarily: my accountant handles all tax correspondence but I still get a Notice to File SA letter every year. Appoint someone to deal with HMRC on your behalf
You can authorise someone else to deal with HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC) for you, for example an accountant, friend or relative.
If you have to fill in a Self Assessment tax return, HMRC will send all correspondence to the person you’ve authorised - except tax bills or refunds. Otherwise, HMRC will continue to write to you.
Mr Pointy said:
Bluequay said:
If they were appointed as his tax agent then the correspondence requesting the self assessment would have gone to them.
Appoint someone to deal with HMRC on your behalf
You can authorise someone else to deal with HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC) for you, for example an accountant, friend or relative.
If you have to fill in a Self Assessment tax return, HMRC will send all correspondence to the person you’ve authorised - except tax bills or refunds. Otherwise, HMRC will continue to write to you.
Not necessarily: my accountant handles all tax correspondence but I still get a Notice to File SA letter every year. Appoint someone to deal with HMRC on your behalf
You can authorise someone else to deal with HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC) for you, for example an accountant, friend or relative.
If you have to fill in a Self Assessment tax return, HMRC will send all correspondence to the person you’ve authorised - except tax bills or refunds. Otherwise, HMRC will continue to write to you.
https://www.gov.uk/appoint-tax-agent
ChocolateFrog said:
Apparently because we don't have our breaks in one location we can claim for food expenses. I believe this to be true but as it caught on apparently HMRC pushed back. <Snip>
To take it back a step, I don't believe that you can claim tax relief for food expenses unless it's connected to overnight stays or business travel. Train driver would have travel as a function of the role, not incidental. Or you can claim to replace a meal typically taken at home. So a day time worker cannot claim for lunch regardless of hours, but could claim an evening meal if they worked until 11pm ad-hoc. A shift worker could not claim for meals during shift, but could if an emergency took them well past the end of the shift.How about, phone them and ask what the deal is? You'd be on hold for a while, but it would be time well spent rather than acting rashly on advice without full facts.
Eric I believe is correct - they send YOU the letters re SA. I also remember multiple fines in a year, and after a point they ramp (or used to - when I was tardy and kept putting off a simple SA job).
One thing about the HMRC that no one wants you to know, in situations like this - they are normally (or used to be) pretty reasonable. I used to get all my fines cancelled by being courteous and explaining I didn't have a clue what I was doing. It used to be the guys you spoke to had a lot of discretion to cancel these, so unless its changed - phoning them is ALWAYS worth a shot.
Eric I believe is correct - they send YOU the letters re SA. I also remember multiple fines in a year, and after a point they ramp (or used to - when I was tardy and kept putting off a simple SA job).
One thing about the HMRC that no one wants you to know, in situations like this - they are normally (or used to be) pretty reasonable. I used to get all my fines cancelled by being courteous and explaining I didn't have a clue what I was doing. It used to be the guys you spoke to had a lot of discretion to cancel these, so unless its changed - phoning them is ALWAYS worth a shot.
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