Boomer life according to the economist
Discussion
asfault said:
OoopsVoss said:
asfault said:
Pay some taxes to pay for a war that up until opwration sealion was cancled would have meant the invasion of the UK im fine with. Pay taxes for the cost of the gfc 2008 where I got none of the benefit pre 2008 ie houses at a reasonable price but all of the costs afterwards I feel a little more hard done by...
You are paying to have an economy full stop. Its avocado and flat white tax. Cheer up, if you view it through the lenses of what could have happened 19-20th Sept 2008, moaning about house prices would be the least of your problem. But it still stings knowing about it. Ignorance is almost bliss
People simply won't sit around and take it if you try to take their homes etc away. There would have been riots.
Just as with Covid. Money is found from somewhere, disaster is averted. As much as the press like to try to tell you otherwise, because it sells more clicks.
Olivera said:
From the FT:
With the top 10% of millennials in the above graph being explained by:
Everyones favourite rags to riches former superstar trader Gary's Economics has been covering this theme in recent videos.With the top 10% of millennials in the above graph being explained by:
Interestingly he is very pessimistic about anyone from his kind of background repeating his own success, due to social mobility getting even worse and requiring luck (in getting an opening into a lucrative financial profession) to become an ever more important component alongside brains, hard study in the right subjects at the right schools, and work effort.
Family connections and financial backing being even more important now than ever in terms of career, property owning ability and lifetime wealth. Which is also a form of luck of course. So the Tim Nice But Dims shall inherit the earth by every metric.
I dispute a lot of this though, as the guy who just quoted for our bathroom proves there are other ways to earn an absolute fortune despite a humble background.
brickwall said:
If Boomers are asking why millennials striving for a house don’t work some overtime and save every penny - the answer may well be “because it won’t make a difference anyway”.
It’s becoming increasingly clear that for many - you can work and save as hard as you like, but the only way to buy a decent home is with family help. If that’s off the table, then you can’t blame them for going “f
k it I’ll enjoy life now then”.
The very reason people don't accumulate money is that they are wasting it. That is 3rd World thinking. It’s becoming increasingly clear that for many - you can work and save as hard as you like, but the only way to buy a decent home is with family help. If that’s off the table, then you can’t blame them for going “f
k it I’ll enjoy life now then”.People here waste money on consume, with 3 years they'd be able to finance a hot dog stand. Some places the banks don't give you money for start ups.
Its not worth is your mindset telling you not to change. There are 1000 of people who demonstrate otherwise. But those are just lucky.
AllyM said:
WayOutWest said:
Everyones favourite rags to riches former superstar trader Gary's Economics has been covering this theme in recent videos.
Gary wrote a very good book and it’s even better as an audiobook, but listening to/watching him on YT feels like a chore. He's not saying anything new or particularly interesting. Neither does he have a viable solution.
BandOfBrothers said:
With hindsight I think the GFC impact was overblown - if we hadn't bailed out the banks, the government would have had to find someone way to bail out the economy.
People simply won't sit around and take it if you try to take their homes etc away. There would have been riots.
Just as with Covid. Money is found from somewhere, disaster is averted. As much as the press like to try to tell you otherwise, because it sells more clicks.
How?People simply won't sit around and take it if you try to take their homes etc away. There would have been riots.
Just as with Covid. Money is found from somewhere, disaster is averted. As much as the press like to try to tell you otherwise, because it sells more clicks.
What happened in Greece in 2012? The banks would have ceased to exist within 48hours. That would bring down all payment systems, everything goes. There is no backstop to the banking system, what you are suggesting would need everyone to have an account at the Central Bank - plus the govt to have full control and ownership of SWIFT etc.
You could print all the money you want, but you'd need to physically deliver it to everyone within hours. Its not possible.
I mean its stupid to have all your eggs in 1 basket, but you do. They did (in a way exactly what you said). If that weekend both Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley didn't succumb to the Fed and become bank holding co's (they weren't banks pre that) - complete system failure. The legal and regulatory landscape doesn't mean you have to default on an entire loan amount - just the margin amount.
We have single point of failure risk and no way of controlling velocity. There isn't government structures big or fast enough to step in. As nuts as that is. Covid is a Mickey Mouse problem.
OoopsVoss said:
BandOfBrothers said:
With hindsight I think the GFC impact was overblown - if we hadn't bailed out the banks, the government would have had to find someone way to bail out the economy.
People simply won't sit around and take it if you try to take their homes etc away. There would have been riots.
Just as with Covid. Money is found from somewhere, disaster is averted. As much as the press like to try to tell you otherwise, because it sells more clicks.
How?People simply won't sit around and take it if you try to take their homes etc away. There would have been riots.
Just as with Covid. Money is found from somewhere, disaster is averted. As much as the press like to try to tell you otherwise, because it sells more clicks.
What happened in Greece in 2012? The banks would have ceased to exist within 48hours. That would bring down all payment systems, everything goes. There is no backstop to the banking system, what you are suggesting would need everyone to have an account at the Central Bank - plus the govt to have full control and ownership of SWIFT etc.
You could print all the money you want, but you'd need to physically deliver it to everyone within hours. Its not possible.
I mean its stupid to have all your eggs in 1 basket, but you do. They did (in a way exactly what you said). If that weekend both Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley didn't succumb to the Fed and become bank holding co's (they weren't banks pre that) - complete system failure. The legal and regulatory landscape doesn't mean you have to default on an entire loan amount - just the margin amount.
We have single point of failure risk and no way of controlling velocity. There isn't government structures big or fast enough to step in. As nuts as that is. Covid is a Mickey Mouse problem.
Russia has been excluded from western payment systems for 2 years and they've never been available in parts of Africa.
There absolutely is a backstop to the banking system - you yourself have given an example.
Just because it's wildely different to the status quo, doesn't make it impossible.
I often think it would actually have been a good thing to let the banks go to the wall and we start again. QE and austerity certainly didn't solve anything.
okgo said:
It’s all mostly fiction isn’t it? Like a ‘real’ people’s version of Stephen Bartlett - pair of fantasists.
I don't know. It would be interesting to hear from his colleagues of the time how much is BS. I question all the no 1 trader in the world stuff, and the "I'm always right" ego grates.As for the lefty politics, he seems to be leaving the core of the middle class alone to the extent anyone with a net worth of up to £2-3 million should be no worse off. But much above that and you're fair game.
There are worse ideas out there, one youtube thing I saw today was calling for Capital Gains Tax and income from rent, interest or dividends to be equalised with Income Tax + Employee NICs + Employer NICs for everyone. Because currently Rishi Sunak only pays "22% tax".
okgo said:
It’s all mostly fiction isn’t it?
So he didn't live in Ilford?His dad didn't buy a house on a Postman's salary and with his wife raise 3 kids?
He wasn't a good maths Student?
Didn't go to LSE?
He didn't work for City Bank
He didn't earn good money?
He didn't leave on his own accord?
He didn't get a PHD from Oxford?
He didn't start a youtube channel to at least try and do something to address what he sees/learnt?
My synopsis is that he made enough, was obsessed with escaping being poor and when he found that he didn't do what most do and lose themselves in it and continually chase. He won, he did it, but then he got 'enough' it lost it's allure? and didn't forget where he came from and those he grew up with, and sees their plight and has taken the time to look into how we've got here and whether it'll get better or worse. He sees it as getting worse for them and cares about that and future generations, rather than most traders not being from that background and so there isn't that same level of questioning of the way things are.
You may not like him, but where is you evidence for "mostly fiction"? It's a book and meant to be entertaining so I'm sure it's got some artistic licence in respect of the characters just like in something like the Wolf of Wolf street or Margin call?
OoopsVoss said:
How?
What happened in Greece in 2012? The banks would have ceased to exist within 48hours. That would bring down all payment systems, everything goes. There is no backstop to the banking system, what you are suggesting would need everyone to have an account at the Central Bank - plus the govt to have full control and ownership of SWIFT etc.
You could print all the money you want, but you'd need to physically deliver it to everyone within hours. Its not possible.
I mean its stupid to have all your eggs in 1 basket, but you do. They did (in a way exactly what you said). If that weekend both Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley didn't succumb to the Fed and become bank holding co's (they weren't banks pre that) - complete system failure. The legal and regulatory landscape doesn't mean you have to default on an entire loan amount - just the margin amount.
We have single point of failure risk and no way of controlling velocity. There isn't government structures big or fast enough to step in. As nuts as that is. Covid is a Mickey Mouse problem.
Absolutely correct and hardly anyone sees that.What happened in Greece in 2012? The banks would have ceased to exist within 48hours. That would bring down all payment systems, everything goes. There is no backstop to the banking system, what you are suggesting would need everyone to have an account at the Central Bank - plus the govt to have full control and ownership of SWIFT etc.
You could print all the money you want, but you'd need to physically deliver it to everyone within hours. Its not possible.
I mean its stupid to have all your eggs in 1 basket, but you do. They did (in a way exactly what you said). If that weekend both Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley didn't succumb to the Fed and become bank holding co's (they weren't banks pre that) - complete system failure. The legal and regulatory landscape doesn't mean you have to default on an entire loan amount - just the margin amount.
We have single point of failure risk and no way of controlling velocity. There isn't government structures big or fast enough to step in. As nuts as that is. Covid is a Mickey Mouse problem.
Most people wishing for banks to go away do that because they don't fathom the consequences of it. The banks know it too and that leads to abuse.
Due to the widespread ignorance shown on social platforms society faces the risk that more and more ignorant politicians lead and lead into chaos, City dwellers beware. Apart from raising temps without banks, no supermarkets.
WayOutWest said:
As for the lefty politics, he seems to be leaving the core of the middle class alone to the extent anyone with a net worth of up to £2-3 million should be no worse off. But much above that and you're fair game.
You can argue there is a bit of that "tax everyone more that's above me" side to it, but he's on the side of less tax for those earning and more on the super wealthy with passive income, where that income is able to create more income, it's not like that doesn't take any effort but it certainly hinders the lower ranks? The tag line being if you don't arrest the rise in the rich getting richer you won't resolve the issues of house prices accelerating away from more and more people over time.I think his background means that where he's got to is enough, like crazy enough for him, he can't embrace the lifestyle that money provides I don't think when he accomplished his goal it made him as happy as he was expecting? Neither did going back to study (I think that made it worse and encouraged him to do what he is trying too now) It's hard for him to see the need to keep going and going (most I suspect would just keep going and live up to their new 'means' level) and so thinks if those extra wealthy are curtailed from, ever rapidly, growing wealth they shouldn't exactly be unhappy, like putting the brakes on them, for the benefit of society?
Whether right or wrong I 'think' that's broadly his stance?
NickZ24 said:
Absolutely correct and hardly anyone sees that.
Most people wishing for banks to go away do that because they don't fathom the consequences of it. The banks know it too and that leads to abuse.
Due to the widespread ignorance shown on social platforms society faces the risk that more and more ignorant politicians lead and lead into chaos, City dwellers beware. Apart from raising temps without banks, no supermarkets.
Ignorance is partly fair enough, because we are never really sat down and explained much about money, commercial banking, central banks etc? I'd argue that it's not even that easy to find out definitively exactly what does go on, what exactly all the parties do, the fact there are crisis points to at least those running the show don't know all the in and outs, the pathways are options and the fixes vary, depending on which set of professionals/economists you ask?Most people wishing for banks to go away do that because they don't fathom the consequences of it. The banks know it too and that leads to abuse.
Due to the widespread ignorance shown on social platforms society faces the risk that more and more ignorant politicians lead and lead into chaos, City dwellers beware. Apart from raising temps without banks, no supermarkets.
So average Joe can't be blamed for their ignorance too much, after all to most they only get as far as, money in when they earn it and then money out when they need it. On this simple notion there is no reason for them ever to think for example that removing all the money they've put in along with everyone else could ever not be possible!? You'd call that their ignorance on their part when in the cold light of day they see it as unfathomable, and in many ways they are right?
BandOfBrothers said:
OoopsVoss said:
BandOfBrothers said:
With hindsight I think the GFC impact was overblown - if we hadn't bailed out the banks, the government would have had to find someone way to bail out the economy.
People simply won't sit around and take it if you try to take their homes etc away. There would have been riots.
Just as with Covid. Money is found from somewhere, disaster is averted. As much as the press like to try to tell you otherwise, because it sells more clicks.
How?People simply won't sit around and take it if you try to take their homes etc away. There would have been riots.
Just as with Covid. Money is found from somewhere, disaster is averted. As much as the press like to try to tell you otherwise, because it sells more clicks.
What happened in Greece in 2012? The banks would have ceased to exist within 48hours. That would bring down all payment systems, everything goes. There is no backstop to the banking system, what you are suggesting would need everyone to have an account at the Central Bank - plus the govt to have full control and ownership of SWIFT etc.
You could print all the money you want, but you'd need to physically deliver it to everyone within hours. Its not possible.
I mean its stupid to have all your eggs in 1 basket, but you do. They did (in a way exactly what you said). If that weekend both Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley didn't succumb to the Fed and become bank holding co's (they weren't banks pre that) - complete system failure. The legal and regulatory landscape doesn't mean you have to default on an entire loan amount - just the margin amount.
We have single point of failure risk and no way of controlling velocity. There isn't government structures big or fast enough to step in. As nuts as that is. Covid is a Mickey Mouse problem.
Russia has been excluded from western payment systems for 2 years and they've never been available in parts of Africa.
There absolutely is a backstop to the banking system - you yourself have given an example.
Just because it's wildely different to the status quo, doesn't make it impossible.
I often think it would actually have been a good thing to let the banks go to the wall and we start again. QE and austerity certainly didn't solve anything.
The solution I gave wasn't an alternate, they bailed them (GS/MS) out and backstopped them to prevent a contagion event ending everyone. The fact is now, if you were owed money by Lehman Brothers International - you'd get it all back. They went bust not because they were insolvent, but illiquid - and they nearly took everyone with them.
You don't have time for an alternate. The historical view of gradual collapse (which arguably we are in anyway) - doesn't account for population growth, e-money lack of energy / food security (i.e. globalisation) etc - its going to go fast.
Depends on how cynical you are, you could argue that the response to the GFC was to make the system "too big too fail". So protect at all costs.
Greece, Russia and Africa as answers to a complex G7 Western nation's financial system?
Greece? Pre Sovereign debt crisis, Greece was (outside major cities and tourist areas) largely a barter based economy. But bailed out.
Russia actually still has SWIFT access via Gazprombank and Sberbank - otherwise the oil market would have imploded. Domestically they use the Central Bank system. Also its all GDP growth numbers are also hiding real structural issues, its running down savings and internal investment at a biblical rate.
Africa as a blueprint for the UK?
Let the banks go to the wall? I'd ask why - I mean they don't determine QE or growth policy, they are admin.
The banks are only the on / off rail for QE/QT - otherwise you have no transmission mechanism. That's exactly why the banks will be saved, there is no government infrastructure to move e-money.
The question really is - did they have do to QE / loose Monetary Policy so aggressively. I'd suggest if they didn't, 50% of global manufacturing and brands would have disappeared; with a good portion still zombies today.
They didn't do QE specifically to inflate house prices, that's second order effect.
WayOutWest said:
okgo said:
There are worse ideas out there, one youtube thing I saw today was calling for Capital Gains Tax and income from rent, interest or dividends to be equalised with Income Tax + Employee NICs + Employer NICs for everyone. Because currently Rishi Sunak only pays "22% tax".
If "22%" is what RS pays on every £ of his personal income subject to UK income tax, I'd be surprised it's that low. My comparative amount is 25% and I'm pretty sure he has more income to declare than me, a mere pensioner!R.
The Leaper said:
WayOutWest said:
okgo said:
There are worse ideas out there, one youtube thing I saw today was calling for Capital Gains Tax and income from rent, interest or dividends to be equalised with Income Tax + Employee NICs + Employer NICs for everyone. Because currently Rishi Sunak only pays "22% tax".
If "22%" is what RS pays on every £ of his personal income subject to UK income tax, I'd be surprised it's that low. My comparative amount is 25% and I'm pretty sure he has more income to declare than me, a mere pensioner!R.
Some is also declared in the US it seems -
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/feb/09/r...
The Leaper said:
If "22%" is what RS pays on every £ of his personal income subject to UK income tax, I'd be surprised it's that low. My comparative amount is 25% and I'm pretty sure he has more income to declare than me, a mere pensioner!
R.
According to RS’ tax summary most of his income is investment gains, subject to CGT at 20%. R.
brickwall said:
According to RS’ tax summary most of his income is investment gains, subject to CGT at 20%.
Yup, that's the way it works. The wealthy don't need to trouble themselves too much about income tax of 40%, 45%, 60% when their reward can be pocketed in the form of capital gains. Mr Starmer and his crew will probably have rather different ideas on this subject when their first budget rolls around.Rachel Reeves likes to say they will clamp down on tax avoidance. Her ideas of tax avoidance go rather wider than the conventional definition. She will tell you that you're "avoiding tax" unless you're " paying your fair share"...
IMO anyone who's awake and paying attention could usefully make sure their ISA allowances are fully utilised and and any CGT in the pipeline is paid while the rate remains relatively benign. And that 25% tax free lump sum for pensioners could easily be caught within the net as well.
BandOfBrothers said:
I often think it would actually have been a good thing to let the banks go to the wall and we start again. QE and austerity certainly didn't solve anything.
Short-term would have been worse than a car-crash, but once everyone sorted themselves out I'm inclined to agree. It'd certainly have removed the hubris from that industry (and arguably the speculators too), and might have moved us back towards something sustainable.As it, all that's happened is the taxpayer has funded shareholder losses and banker bonuses, and they've all carried on as before once the dust settled. Hardly a good example of capitalism in action.
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