Can any one advise - CSA demands £58,000 out of the blue!!!
Discussion
I've just received a demand for £58,000 from the CSA for my 2 daughters who I've not seen for 17 years. My last actual contact with them was when my ex-wife told me that she did not want me to see them again and that she wanted no more money from me as "They have everything they need". I never challenged my right to see my daughtewrs and, as told to do so by her, never paid her any further maintenance and I never ever received any further demand from her or the CSA.
My mother was also forced to stop seeing her grandchildren due to my ex's anti attitude to her.
Last year, I succeeded to make contact with my children via the internet and things have been progressing positively with the elder daughter, now 26 years old and hopefully soon with the younger, aged 24 years.
However, I've just received a letter from the CSA demanding £58,000 in arrears, due from 1993 to 2003. I suspect this is due to my ex forwarding details of where I live and work gained due to my contact with my daughters. They do not know of my ex's suspected actions and I expect they will be hurt by my new very serious dilemma.
I'm self employed, live in rented accommodation and thankfully have no assets.
Can anyone on here advise me if the CSA have a case against me relative to their lack of trying to source my address details etc as they only sent a demand to an address I was living at in 1999 and never bothered to search further?
Any recommendations to any solicitors specialising in CSA cases would also be gratefully received.
My mother was also forced to stop seeing her grandchildren due to my ex's anti attitude to her.
Last year, I succeeded to make contact with my children via the internet and things have been progressing positively with the elder daughter, now 26 years old and hopefully soon with the younger, aged 24 years.
However, I've just received a letter from the CSA demanding £58,000 in arrears, due from 1993 to 2003. I suspect this is due to my ex forwarding details of where I live and work gained due to my contact with my daughters. They do not know of my ex's suspected actions and I expect they will be hurt by my new very serious dilemma.
I'm self employed, live in rented accommodation and thankfully have no assets.
Can anyone on here advise me if the CSA have a case against me relative to their lack of trying to source my address details etc as they only sent a demand to an address I was living at in 1999 and never bothered to search further?
Any recommendations to any solicitors specialising in CSA cases would also be gratefully received.
Edited by Aardvark27 on Monday 28th December 20:48
Go here http://www.childsupportsolutions.co.uk/index.htm
They're recommended.
And here http://www.fnf.org.uk/
You can also call the FNF helpline from 6pm tonight 0300 0300 363
And go here too http://www.nacsa.co.uk
I *think* they can't pursue debt from earlier than 12 July 2000 without getting an Administrative Liability Order, but the law is/was being reviewed such that they didn't have to go to court to raise them. So you need to stop that happening too.
And send a shoebox full of cat s
t to:
Clearbrook House
Towerfield Drive
Bickleigh Down Business Park
Plymouth PL6 7TN
They're my delightful processors
Edited to remove some guff about Deduction of Earnings
They're recommended.
And here http://www.fnf.org.uk/
You can also call the FNF helpline from 6pm tonight 0300 0300 363
And go here too http://www.nacsa.co.uk
I *think* they can't pursue debt from earlier than 12 July 2000 without getting an Administrative Liability Order, but the law is/was being reviewed such that they didn't have to go to court to raise them. So you need to stop that happening too.
And send a shoebox full of cat s
t to:Clearbrook House
Towerfield Drive
Bickleigh Down Business Park
Plymouth PL6 7TN
They're my delightful processors
Edited to remove some guff about Deduction of Earnings
Edited by bigandclever on Wednesday 9th December 11:46
Soovy said:
See a Family Law solicitor NOW. Do it NOW.
Your ex has obviously informed the CSA as revenge for your having contact with the kids.
I suspect they can make this stick. What a bh.
What do people think?............Your ex has obviously informed the CSA as revenge for your having contact with the kids.
I suspect they can make this stick. What a b
h.If the CSA do have me banged to rights and there's no hope of an appeal would it best for me not to spend a fortune on CSA specialist solicitors and then only to lose the case anyway or to just defend myself.
I do have a solicitor friend who could give me guidance through the legal procedures.
How do they justify the bill?
Can they provide evidence that you have cost them 58000 pounds in that time frame?
Who do you owe the money to, your ex or your children as they are now adults? Can you send a cheque to your daughter's addresses?
Can they provide a breakdown of the ammount and justify awarding this to your ex?
The CSA is (IIRC) only involved if voluntary payments are stopped or if the recipient is on benefits. Can they provide evidence that your ex was on benefits in this timeframe? If not can they prove that voluntary payments (in your case equal to zero as agreed) were not made? Note that as the agreement was zero you must have met or exceeded the voluntary support. In other words what is their justification for getting involved if you kept both your agreement and you cost them nothing?
As the agreement was zero and you have made payments equal to zero then why are they pursuing you unless as compensation for benefits?
All good questions to ask your solicitor.
Can they provide evidence that you have cost them 58000 pounds in that time frame?
Who do you owe the money to, your ex or your children as they are now adults? Can you send a cheque to your daughter's addresses?
Can they provide a breakdown of the ammount and justify awarding this to your ex?
The CSA is (IIRC) only involved if voluntary payments are stopped or if the recipient is on benefits. Can they provide evidence that your ex was on benefits in this timeframe? If not can they prove that voluntary payments (in your case equal to zero as agreed) were not made? Note that as the agreement was zero you must have met or exceeded the voluntary support. In other words what is their justification for getting involved if you kept both your agreement and you cost them nothing?
As the agreement was zero and you have made payments equal to zero then why are they pursuing you unless as compensation for benefits?
All good questions to ask your solicitor.
Aardvark27 said:
Soovy said:
See a Family Law solicitor NOW. Do it NOW.
Your ex has obviously informed the CSA as revenge for your having contact with the kids.
I suspect they can make this stick. What a bh.
What do people think?............Your ex has obviously informed the CSA as revenge for your having contact with the kids.
I suspect they can make this stick. What a b
h.If the CSA do have me banged to rights and there's no hope of an appeal would it best for me not to spend a fortune on CSA specialist solicitors and then only to lose the case anyway or to just defend myself.
I do have a solicitor friend who could give me guidance through the legal procedures.
king hell mate which bit of GO AND SEE A SOLICITOR NOW don't you get?!!amare32 said:
£58k is scandalous. Saying that the up keep of 2 children over a span of 17 years is not going to be cheap.
Firstly congrats to the OP for making contact with his daughters. I can't for the life of me imagine how any father could abandon his children (I'm speaking as one who is separated from my sons mother) but you deserve some respect for attempting to come back in to your daughters lives.Breaking down the numbers though and whilst £58k sounds like a big pill to swallow in one hit it's based on ten years when I'm presumming the OP provided no money for two children.
If you break that down it works out (roughly, not knowing some of the facts) at £480 per month for them both, with the OP having a net monthly income of around £2,400.
Not sure that sounds such a scandalous amount to me, though I'd be concerned about that money being paid to the mother and not the children now they are old enough to use it wisely themselves.
Good luck OP, let us know how you get on.
musclecarmad said:
i thought they can only claim from the minute they make contact for money and then onwards and not before.
They can enforce a back-dated claim from the date it was made to the CSA by Mrs Ex. But the fact that she only contacted the CSA a full 2 years after the last contact and agreed maintenance payment was made is in my favour as is the fact that she stated that she wanted no more contact or money from me, period. I have a bona fide witness to her stating this who will swear this on oath in any Court of Law. I am awaiting my Data Statement from the CSA and as advised by a respected CSA victim support website I am awaiting the results of this statement before consulting legal advice. No real info = no real advice.
Thanks to all for the replies, topic to be continued...................
NewNameNeeded said:
amare32 said:
£58k is scandalous. Saying that the up keep of 2 children over a span of 17 years is not going to be cheap.
Breaking down the numbers though and whilst £58k sounds like a big pill to swallow in one hit it's based on ten years when I'm presumming the OP provided no money for two children.Aardvark27 said:
My ex told me in 1991 to clear-off and never contact my daughters again "As they have everything they need, they do not need you and we do not need any money from you, clear-off and get out of our lives......" .............so I did and as instructed I never paid her any more money, but always my hope was that in their later teen years they would look me up or respond to my contact searches.
I do feel for you, though I would personally fight until my dying breathe before I gave up on seeing my son. I guess this comes down to a "he said / she said" defence against a legal obligation to support your children. Can't see that going in your favour, but I hope above all else none of this spoils the renewed contact with your children. Best of luck!
Surely this will be about benefits? That is, your ex claimed 58k of benefits over the years that she wouldn't have been entitled to if you were paying. In the CSA's eyes, your girls "had everything they need" courtesy of Joe Taxpayer. I gather this catches parents out a lot - often the mother gains nothing from child support payments because she's on benefits, so the father either pays "outside the system" or not at all. Then years later, the CSA finds out, expects you to pony up, and doesn't go away.
Mind you the CSA are well known for their ridiculous behaviour, for both parents, so they could be talking out of their collective clueless arse.
Mind you the CSA are well known for their ridiculous behaviour, for both parents, so they could be talking out of their collective clueless arse.
NewNameNeeded said:
Aardvark27 said:
My ex told me in 1991 to clear-off and never contact my daughters again "As they have everything they need, they do not need you and we do not need any money from you, clear-off and get out of our lives......" .............so I did and as instructed I never paid her any more money, but always my hope was that in their later teen years they would look me up or respond to my contact searches.
I do feel for you, though I would personally fight until my dying breathe before I gave up on seeing my son. I will just add: contact and money are NOT connected. It doesn't matter if you never see your children again, the CSA will still want payment.
I'm AKA Aarkwright27 ...OP
After 4 years of hassle, the CSA were still pursuing me for £58,000 but recently I fronted them, stood my ground and fired them a few broadsides regarding my reasons opposing my ex's/CSA claims for any future Enforcements via a County Court Hearing, as well as sending a broadside to the Ex telling her what I thought of her.
The result was that my Ex conceded her Claim with the CSA and the CSA have now shelved this case. Job done!!! Result !!!
My advice to others is to be polite but firm with the CSA staff, they are not so Draconian as before and can actually help you with your cause. Be firm with your Ex. do not go belly up, strike first and hard.
And then relax!!!
After 4 years of hassle, the CSA were still pursuing me for £58,000 but recently I fronted them, stood my ground and fired them a few broadsides regarding my reasons opposing my ex's/CSA claims for any future Enforcements via a County Court Hearing, as well as sending a broadside to the Ex telling her what I thought of her.
The result was that my Ex conceded her Claim with the CSA and the CSA have now shelved this case. Job done!!! Result !!!
My advice to others is to be polite but firm with the CSA staff, they are not so Draconian as before and can actually help you with your cause. Be firm with your Ex. do not go belly up, strike first and hard.
And then relax!!!
Edited by GilbertGutbucket on Thursday 24th October 20:58
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