PV Solar Power

[x5x3]

I'm not intending to re-start the "lively discussion" here but I am considering Solar PV for a slightly different reason - I want some independence from the power companies/world economies/natural resource fluctuations - if someone has a better idea then please let me know. I'd like to know what my costs are likely to be for the next 25 years (and yes I know the Government could change/cancel the FIT etc), our power consumption is higher than average and PV seems a good way to limit (or at least reduce) our exposure to the changes coming over the next few years.

[NugentS]

I have just signed up.

Price = 13K
Sanyo HIT 250's * 16 = 4 Kw because less efficient panels won't fit on my roof - so I have paid extra for the Sanyo's

I am also an above average electrickery user and am trying to mitigate some of my bills. I have a south facing roof with no shade based near London
I estimate I will be paid / cost offset approx £1500 pa. This is made up of FITS payments @ 43p per unit plus less use of grid and selling some back to grid however the major part is FITS - the rest is just bonus.

13K / 1500 = 8.666 years to get my initial money back

FITS is guaranteed for 25 years and increases with RPI. As long as you install before April then you will get the 43p. Install after April - its probably going down
Price of electricity is going up rapidly
Price of gas is also going up quite rapidly

Its a long term investment - but it does seem worth it

Sean

N.B. Figures are approximate - mileage may vary (to be a PH slant on things)

[herewego]

Why are you guys above average users. Is that something worth addressing?

[caziques]

herewego said:

Why are you guys above average users. Is that something worth addressing?

This. What is considered "average" in the UK? and is electricity being wasted?

Usually better to cut out waste rather than generate more.

[NugentS]

caziques said:

This. What is considered "average" in the UK? and is electricity being wasted?

Usually better to cut out waste rather than generate more.

I work from home on multiple computers
I have a vmware lab at home running multiple hosts and multiple NAS - 24*7
Lightbulbs are almost all low power
My office hits 30 degrees so I have air on

Etc

Sean

[bigburd]

Sean, welcome to the "solar generators"

One thing many people don't take into account is the calculations are based on an average of 1100hrs sunlight per annum, check the averages for past years on www.metoffice.gov.uk

http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/climate/uk/datasets/

Midlands
Hours/Year
1525.8 2010
1538 2009
1456.3 2008
1557 2007
1579.9 2006
1506.8 2005
1431.9 2004
1685.5 2003
1403.7 2002
1485.7 2001

Edited by bigburd on Wednesday 28th September 23:42

[NugentS]

even better

Sean

[zcacogp]

caziques said:

herewego said:

Why are you guys above average users. Is that something worth addressing?

This. What is considered "average" in the UK? and is electricity being wasted?

Usually better to cut out waste rather than generate more.

That's the daft thing about the FITs at the moment; it's very little to do with the amount you use, it's everything to do with the amount you generate. And you are paid much more for a unit you generate that you would pay to buy it off the grid.

This is (as I understand it) the basis of arguments like Mr GN's - and it's understandable.


Oli.

[herewego]

That everybody should be encouraged(probably through finance) to minimise their consumption of electricity not just to avoid global warming, but balance of payments, resource waste, financial waste, health and probably a host of other reasons, should go without saying.
Paying people to reduce their consumption is one, rather difficult to implement, way to attempt it. A much simpler way is to have a tiered tariff, with prices rising with consumption.

[icarus1]

It's a big decision to make.
A reasonable system will cost around £10k and your unlikely to know just how succesful you've been until 12 months have passed by. Even then climate variations will provide different output levels.
I've tried to detail my experience and the costs involved at: http://www.solarpowerdiary.co.uk/p/installation-co...

If you need some impartial advice, or just more information just let me know.

[herewego]

icarus1 said:

It's a big decision to make.
A reasonable system will cost around £10k and your unlikely to know just how succesful you've been until 12 months have passed by. Even then climate variations will provide different output levels.
I've tried to detail my experience and the costs involved at: http://www.solarpowerdiary.co.uk/p/installation-co...

If you need some impartial advice, or just more information just let me know.

Very good. just a small point, can you check your kWs and kWhs. It should be a small k and many of the kWs should be kWhs.

[RichyBoy]

Been thinking about this but worried about the fly by night nature of these companies quoting long warranties. Which are the big companies that do solar?

Is it worth going with someone like british gas for solar pv and has anyone had their panel setup?

[bigburd]

The long warranties (25yrs) is "Manufacturers Warranty on the Panel" - take into account an inverter lifespan is circa 10yrs so budget for that to be replaced in 10yrs

Pay with your credit card some of the cost and you will be covered by Section 75 of Consumer Credit Act if any part of the supply chain or products fail. Like this you should not need to pay for any "extended warranty"

Avoid Rent a Roof (free or lo cost solar)
Avoid getting a loan / finance to fund install

Get word of mouth recommendations - if in doubt check for complaints online or with your local trading standards

Oh and check last weeks Watchdog out on iPlayer!!

[anonymous-user]

Im thinking of getting the 'freeish' ones from my electricity supplier. Sure they will get the feed in tariffs, but at least I will get to use the free stuff during the day, so should make some good savings by using power heavy appliances during that period. I can't see any drawbacks really, good sized roof, facing south, not really visible to me or anybody else. Minimal outlay (£99).
Any waranty issues, or reducing of government payments in the future, are also their problem.

[anonymous-user]

PM me and I will do you a quote! We are based down in Corwall but Im happy to do you a quote that you can use for comparison purposes!

[Paul Drawmer]

My system has been running for a year (-18 days) as of today.

The total generated from a 3.885kWp system has been 3888kWh. My export meter was fitted on 12th April, since then I've exported 2000kWh.

[anonymous-user]

Paul Drawmer said:

My system has been running for a year (-18 days) as of today.

The total generated from a 3.885kWp system has been 3888kWh. My export meter was fitted on 12th April, since then I've exported 2000kWh.

What spec is your system Paul? Im guessing your pretty happy with it

[Paul Drawmer]

MonkeyMatt said:

What spec is your system Paul? Im guessing your pretty happy with it

I've PV with 21 X Sharp 185 mono crystalline and a Deihl 3800S inverter.
System: 3.885kWp, slope 30°, Lat 52' Orientation 175° (OX15)

There's a comparison web site run by a French guy, that compares monthly outputs with your nearest installations, after 'normalising' the results by allowing for slope/size/orientation etc. It's very useful for making sure the results are consistent and would show if output dropped off in relation to others.
http://www.bdpv.fr/index_en.php

I've also fitted solar thermal:
20 X 58mm evacuated tubes into a 210L twin coil cylinder.
Just to put that in perspective; our 210L hot water tank is approx twice the size of a normal one, and yesterday (V sunny) it raised the whole tank to 78C. I've only fired the boiler up three times this summer.

[s3fella]

Paul Drawmer said:

My system has been running for a year (-18 days) as of today.

The total generated from a 3.885kWp system has been 3888kWh. My export meter was fitted on 12th April, since then I've exported 2000kWh.

Been looking into these arrays, purely for FIT, but also to help with the bills, we have a south facing low pitch roof on an annexe that is perfect for this, not visible to us or anyone else.

So how much have you had per FIT and can you tell how much free electricity you've been able to use? Is it true that FIT is paid on sum generated, not sum exported, (ie not just what you cnnot use yourself, it's the full generated sum whether used locally or sold back?).

[Paul Drawmer]

s3fella said:

So how much have you had per FIT and can you tell how much free electricity you've been able to use? Is it true that FIT is paid on sum generated, not sum exported, (ie not just what you cnnot use yourself, it's the full generated sum whether used locally or sold back?).

FIT (Feed In Tariff) is a misnomer. The actual payment should be called a GT as it's paid, as you said, on every unit generated, regardless of what you do with it. There is also a small payment for each unit actually fed back into the grid.

The amounts are adjusted for inflation each year, so I received 41.3p up to April and 43.3p after then for every unit generated. For units actually exported I got 3p upto April and 3.3p after April for each unit. Note that most installation will get an amount of 'deemed' export which will be 50% of the actual generated amount. If you have a separate export meter, then that reading will be used to establish the actual amount exported.

In the first year the generation was worth £1,747. I paid £13,700 for my installation, today it should cost about £11,000.

Under the current scheme, my payments will stay on this scale, increasing with inflation for 25 years. The performance of the panels will drop off over that time, by about 20%. I'm looking for payback in 8 years, 12% ROI.

New entrants into the scheme will get lower rates after next April. Don't know how much lower, but it's designed to cut back the income to reflect the lower capital costs as installation prices come down.

'Free electricity' is difficult to work out. If I run the kettle, dishwasher etc in the middle of a sunny day, then I only pay 3.3p per unit (ie the cost of not exporting it). However it is difficult to tell how much benefit I am getting from changing my usage to allow for that. There's also a knock-on effect of just being more aware of using power generally. I'm much more aware of switching things on and off, and my unit per day imported has gone down from 11 to 7, but it will go up again as the days get shorter.