The definitive low-energy GU10 lighting thread
Discussion
Chaps,
We have a number of GU10 halogen bulbs in zcacogp-towers. And some of them are used a lot. The kitchen has four lighting circuits, one of which comprises six 50w GU10s, which are on a lot of the time. That's 300w ... assume they are on for 4 hours a day, that's 1.2kWH = 436 kWH / year. At 12p a unit for electricity (and it may be more now), that's £52 a year to run the things.
Bad piccie here:
Low energy bulbs would seem to be the solution. Question is, which ones to choose? There seem to be four fundamentally different types, as follows. (I have listed as much as I can tell about each option, with an idea of how long it will take to recoup the purchase price - this is about saving money, after all.)
1. CFL. Like this:
Megaman seem to be the biggest brand, and opinion is very divided on whether they are any good or not. Here is a long discussion between people who love them and people who slate them. These claim to be 440lux, are 11w and cost £8.50p each. Comes out at £11.56p/year to run my 6 lights. Payback in around a year and 3 months.
2. Multiple small LEDs, like this:
A fiver from toolstation and I've tried them - the light output is minimal and the quality of light is very cold. No lumen listed, but they claim to use (approx) 1.8 watts. Not really an option for us, but annual cost is a mere £1.90p, paying back in around 7 months.
3. Fewer, brighter LED's. Like this:
Claimed to be 200 or 240lm (presumably lumens), and come in at nine quid from Toolstation. 5.4 watts, 35000 hour working life. Annual cost £5.67p, paying back in around 14 months.
These appear to be the branded (Sylvania) equivalent, and have different specs again - 1200cd (whatever that is), cost twice as much and are 3.5w for 15000 hours of life (annual cost £3.67p, paying back in 2 yrs 4 months or so). By comparison a poor option, but I am guessing the previous ones may well be a bit hit-and-miss quality-wise. (Still, if they have a half-decent warranty then they may yet be the better choice.)
For comparison there is a Halolite one here as well. 4w, £19, 180lumens, 30000 hour life. Annual cost £4.20p, payback in just under 2 1/2 years.
4. Very bright, possibly single LED. Like this:
3w, £10, not much more detail from toolstation. Annual cost £3.15p, payback in a year and a couple of months.
5. Even more expensive, 3-LED thing, like this:
Available here, they cost a whopping £50 each, and claim to be 3x3w (so presumably 9w, giving an annual cost of £9.46p, payback in 7 years.)
So, that's the background. The question is obvious and simple - which one is the best bet? They vary hugely in output and price. On a simple cost analysis the multiple-LED ones are the clear choice, but I've tried one of these and the light output is woeful. Finding comparable facts (and figures) about each one is not that simple, and I simply don't know which to choose.
Opinions (and particularly ones backed up by experience) welcomed - thanks.
Oli.
We have a number of GU10 halogen bulbs in zcacogp-towers. And some of them are used a lot. The kitchen has four lighting circuits, one of which comprises six 50w GU10s, which are on a lot of the time. That's 300w ... assume they are on for 4 hours a day, that's 1.2kWH = 436 kWH / year. At 12p a unit for electricity (and it may be more now), that's £52 a year to run the things.
Bad piccie here:
Low energy bulbs would seem to be the solution. Question is, which ones to choose? There seem to be four fundamentally different types, as follows. (I have listed as much as I can tell about each option, with an idea of how long it will take to recoup the purchase price - this is about saving money, after all.)
1. CFL. Like this:
Megaman seem to be the biggest brand, and opinion is very divided on whether they are any good or not. Here is a long discussion between people who love them and people who slate them. These claim to be 440lux, are 11w and cost £8.50p each. Comes out at £11.56p/year to run my 6 lights. Payback in around a year and 3 months.
2. Multiple small LEDs, like this:
A fiver from toolstation and I've tried them - the light output is minimal and the quality of light is very cold. No lumen listed, but they claim to use (approx) 1.8 watts. Not really an option for us, but annual cost is a mere £1.90p, paying back in around 7 months.
3. Fewer, brighter LED's. Like this:
Claimed to be 200 or 240lm (presumably lumens), and come in at nine quid from Toolstation. 5.4 watts, 35000 hour working life. Annual cost £5.67p, paying back in around 14 months.
These appear to be the branded (Sylvania) equivalent, and have different specs again - 1200cd (whatever that is), cost twice as much and are 3.5w for 15000 hours of life (annual cost £3.67p, paying back in 2 yrs 4 months or so). By comparison a poor option, but I am guessing the previous ones may well be a bit hit-and-miss quality-wise. (Still, if they have a half-decent warranty then they may yet be the better choice.)
For comparison there is a Halolite one here as well. 4w, £19, 180lumens, 30000 hour life. Annual cost £4.20p, payback in just under 2 1/2 years.
4. Very bright, possibly single LED. Like this:
3w, £10, not much more detail from toolstation. Annual cost £3.15p, payback in a year and a couple of months.
5. Even more expensive, 3-LED thing, like this:
Available here, they cost a whopping £50 each, and claim to be 3x3w (so presumably 9w, giving an annual cost of £9.46p, payback in 7 years.)
So, that's the background. The question is obvious and simple - which one is the best bet? They vary hugely in output and price. On a simple cost analysis the multiple-LED ones are the clear choice, but I've tried one of these and the light output is woeful. Finding comparable facts (and figures) about each one is not that simple, and I simply don't know which to choose.
Opinions (and particularly ones backed up by experience) welcomed - thanks.
Oli.
Badgerade,
Yes, I know that shop is run by E36GUY - I didn't want to say in my post but you have saved me the dilemma - thanks.
I guess my reluctance to identify him comes from the fact that the bulbs he sells seem to be such a poor bet (on paper) compared with the competition, and I don't want to appear to be dismissive of him. The question is how much better they possibly can be for such a massively much higher price (and higher power consumption as well.)
Oli.
Yes, I know that shop is run by E36GUY - I didn't want to say in my post but you have saved me the dilemma - thanks.
I guess my reluctance to identify him comes from the fact that the bulbs he sells seem to be such a poor bet (on paper) compared with the competition, and I don't want to appear to be dismissive of him. The question is how much better they possibly can be for such a massively much higher price (and higher power consumption as well.)
Oli.
Buy one from CPC @ £1.80. See what you think, I've found them to be the best by far!! No failures and 12 months old, unlike the expensive ones & instantly bright............
ETA link http://cpc.farnell.com/pro-elec/gu11w/lamp-gu10-en...
Although on offer @ £1.80 by memory...
ETA link http://cpc.farnell.com/pro-elec/gu11w/lamp-gu10-en...
Although on offer @ £1.80 by memory...
Edited by Dave_ST220 on Thursday 29th September 13:26
Are your GU10s 12volts or 240volts? If they are 12volts then you are in a world of hurt as you will have to change the transformers too. Of course I am being silly as the 12volt ones are MR16 or something similar.
As you were.
ETA
for stupidity.
As you were.
ETA
for stupidity.
Edited by Road2Ruin on Thursday 29th September 13:29
Rex - thanks. Codes would be good.
Dave, thanks also. I may try that.
Bored S2upid - there are actually 14 (three strings of 6, 4 and 4 respectively. The last string isn't visible in that picture. There is also a single CFL bayonet-fit lamp over the table - also not visible in the picture.) Why so many? Because we use the kitchen a lot and enjoy cooking, and the quality of lighting is key to this. I designed the lighting when I built the kitchen and it works very, very well indeed - just a bit heavy on the 'ol leccy bills! A mix could be a good idea, but the most-used string is the ones 'round the outside (which are on in the picture), as they are over the worksurfaces. We only very occasionally turn on the four in a square pattern in the middle. On this basis, I'd probably start by changing the six around the outside, and maybe leave the four in the centre for a while.
Oli.
ETA: R2R - You've updated it, but are right - they are 240v.
Dave, thanks also. I may try that.
Bored S2upid - there are actually 14 (three strings of 6, 4 and 4 respectively. The last string isn't visible in that picture. There is also a single CFL bayonet-fit lamp over the table - also not visible in the picture.) Why so many? Because we use the kitchen a lot and enjoy cooking, and the quality of lighting is key to this. I designed the lighting when I built the kitchen and it works very, very well indeed - just a bit heavy on the 'ol leccy bills! A mix could be a good idea, but the most-used string is the ones 'round the outside (which are on in the picture), as they are over the worksurfaces. We only very occasionally turn on the four in a square pattern in the middle. On this basis, I'd probably start by changing the six around the outside, and maybe leave the four in the centre for a while.
Oli.
ETA: R2R - You've updated it, but are right - they are 240v.
I went with 12x 3w single LEDs in two circuits, options of 4,8 or 12 lights on. In the day you think the bulbs are going to do nothing, at night they are very very effective.
Problem i have so far is they've been installed for three months, in that time 4 have blown. at £8 each it could get pricey.
Problem i have so far is they've been installed for three months, in that time 4 have blown. at £8 each it could get pricey.
Replace them all with ZEP1's from http://www.ecoledlight.co.uk/
Run by a PHer (who no-doubt will be along in a moment) but recommended by me and several other happy customers on PH
EDIT: Hmm, should have read the entire thread first.
EDIT again: Here is my kitchen. ZEP1's in the ceiling, LED strips under the cabinets:
Pretty much finished (finally) by furtive, on Flickr
I've also got them in my en-suite and am going to be ordering some more for my bathroom very soon
Run by a PHer (who no-doubt will be along in a moment) but recommended by me and several other happy customers on PH
EDIT: Hmm, should have read the entire thread first.
EDIT again: Here is my kitchen. ZEP1's in the ceiling, LED strips under the cabinets:
Pretty much finished (finally) by furtive, on Flickr
I've also got them in my en-suite and am going to be ordering some more for my bathroom very soon
Edited by furtive on Thursday 29th September 13:52
zcacogp said:
I guess my reluctance to identify him comes from the fact that the bulbs he sells seem to be such a poor bet (on paper) compared with the competition, and I don't want to appear to be dismissive of him. The question is how much better they possibly can be for such a massively much higher price (and higher power consumption as well.)
I've fitted some LED products from Guy and can confirm that the quality is eons ahead of the general DIY shed type stuff. Perimeter lights:
Floodlights (10W each)
I've got 3 of the number 3 LEDS in my downstairs toilet, and they are brilliant.
I've got the non dimmable versions of these everywhere else http://www.simplyled.co.uk/GU10-Dimmable-High-Powe...
Warm white in living areas and Cool in bathrooms and they are brilliant. not missing the GU10 at all.
I've got the non dimmable versions of these everywhere else http://www.simplyled.co.uk/GU10-Dimmable-High-Powe...
Warm white in living areas and Cool in bathrooms and they are brilliant. not missing the GU10 at all.
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