How to identify boundary?

[Fas1975]

Need some advice again guys.

Moved into my property in April last year. Since then, there's an issue with a couple of the fence panels.

As you can see from the pic below, the red line highlights the boundary of my property. The arrow indicated location of fence with the issue:



As you can see, whilst the fence encloses my garden, it also forms the back fence of the neighbour. Looking at the paperwork that came with the purchase transaction, there's no detail in terms of boundary ownership. I've already spoken to the solicitor who handle the purchase and they've said that the documents they hold, also, don't show ownership details, and this indicates the previous owner didn't know.

The solicitor suggests speaking to the current owner. Problem is, he's passed away. House is currently under-offer, but the estate agent won't give me current / new owner details either, citing confidentiality agreements / acts or whatever.

So, is there anything that exists that definitively gives an indication on boundary ownerships so I know who is responsible for fixing the fence? Land registry don't have detailed records. They were destroyed a number of years ago, and they only have the bare minimum on file.

Thanks in advance.

[blueg33]

Very quick reply (sorry a bit busy at mo)

No other way than a title plan with T marks. If this is missing its shared responsibility, unless you can proove who has maintained over a long period. Land Registry will tell you who adjoining owners are.

[furtive]

Get a copy of the land registry details of the other house. That might show that they are responsible for it

[Fas1975]

What do I need to ask for, and who do I need to ask, to get a T marked document.

I've searched the LR website, and especially here:

http://www.landregistryservices.com/property-bound...

All of the sample documents show the same level of detail I have, none of the plans show the T-Marks. Which leads me to believe I'm either looking for the wrong document, or I'm asking the wrong body?

[Chrisgr31]

Logic would suggest that it would be your responsibility as otherwise you could end up with several different styles of fence down that boundary.

If the neighbouring house is empty as the owner has died I'd just get on and fix the problem which saves hassle of arguing about who is liable, or trying to agree what should replace it and who pays.

Incidentially do you see the good or bad side of the fence, this historically would give a clue as to who paid for it, but in the modern world it doesnt.

[furtive]

You can order and download the title plan for a property from the Land Registry website:

http://www.landregistry.gov.uk/public/online-servi...

Search for the address of the property in question and follow the instructions.

[btsidi]

Fas1975 said:

is there anything that exists that definitively gives an indication on boundary ownerships so I know who is responsible for fixing the fence?

Usually the person who cares more about the fence is the person to fix it.
If a neighbour's not fussed, then it won't get done

[Fas1975]

furtive said:

You can order and download the title plan for a property from the Land Registry website:

http://www.landregistry.gov.uk/public/online-servi...

Search for the address of the property in question and follow the instructions.

Took a punt on this at £4, but it's the same detail I have in the house purchase pack. Shows the same boundary I've already posted, but doesn't show the ownership. I'll get it fixed, but I begrudge paying for something that I shouldn't have to pay for.

[furtive]

Did you get it for your house, or for the other house?

[Fas1975]

furtive said:

Did you get it for your house, or for the other house?

Both. Just a plot with red line around it. No T-Mark indicators on either

[northwest monkey]

Fas1975 said:

Took a punt on this at £4, but it's the same detail I have in the house purchase pack. Shows the same boundary I've already posted, but doesn't show the ownership. I'll get it fixed, but I begrudge paying for something that I shouldn't have to pay for.

The thing is you'll never get someone to pay for a fence they dont want to pay for. When I bought the inlaws place, the fence to one side was rotten - not just the panels, but the concrete posts & base boards as well. The neighbour was having none of it - she reckoned it was absolutely fine but she wouldn't have a problem if we wanted to replace it but she was contributing nothing as in her opinion it was fine. Technically it was half her responsibility for her portion of fence but you can't get blood out of a stone!

[Fas1975]

northwest monkey said:

The thing is you'll never get someone to pay for a fence they dont want to pay for. When I bought the inlaws place, the fence to one side was rotten - not just the panels, but the concrete posts & base boards as well. The neighbour was having none of it - she reckoned it was absolutely fine but she wouldn't have a problem if we wanted to replace it but she was contributing nothing as in her opinion it was fine. Technically it was half her responsibility for her portion of fence but you can't get blood out of a stone!

I appreciate that, but currently, I have no-one to ask. Original owner is dead. House is being sold by the estate. I cannot get in contact with either the new purchaser or the estate. Wanted to do my research. If it's my fence, it's my fence. If it isn't, the least I can do is ask the new owners to fix it, or wait for it to fall over and they'll fix it regardless. It's not bad currently, but I'm a fan of pre-emptive maintenance. But again, if it's not my fence, I'd rather it not be my money for the repair.

[Jobbo]

Is the fence along that whole boundary one continuous style all the way along? If so, it's more likely that it was yours. Absent any other evidence or agreement, the fence will be the property of whoever put it up, and if one continuous fence, it's more likely that it was put up by whoever previously owned or built your house.

Note that I simply say 'more likely'; it's impossible to be definitive. What are you trying to achieve? If you want the fence to be repaired without having to pay for it, you'll probably end up disappointed. Just pay to fix it if that's the issue.

[cptsideways]

Usually...

The fence owner gets to see the front face of the fence, where its party fence. This is normally a good indication of who's it is. Only time thats not the case would be a road frontage for example.

Or someone put their fence in the wrong way round

[blueg33]

cptsideways said:

Usually...

The fence owner gets to see the front face of the fence, where its party fence. This is normally a good indication of who's it is. Only time thats not the case would be a road frontage for example.

I have been buying land for 20 odd years and can confirm that the above is correct 50% of the time.

[blueg33]

Op. If the property and its neighbours pre date the 1970's then its highly likely that there is no definitive answer.

[Fas1975]

blueg33 said:

Op. If the property and its neighbours pre date the 1970's then its highly likely that there is no definitive answer.

My place was built in 1962, the others were certainly within a couple of years of that.

[blueg33]

Fas1975 said:

My place was built in 1962, the others were certainly within a couple of years of that.

The problem is that conveyancers rarely thought about boundary ownership until the late 1970's/80's. I suspect that any more cash spent with the land registry will be wasted.

Looking at the arrangement of the gardens, its most likely that you are responsible, but as others have said that is in no way definitive.

Why dont you ask some of the other neighbours what they have done over the years?

Otherwise the best you can do is assume shared responsibility and that if you want something doing then you will have to pay.

Its a very common problem.

[Fas1975]

Appreciate the advice. Will just get on with fixing it. Will put it down as a "neighbourly gesture"

[mondeoman]

Smart move - I'd've said as it goes across several other properties the likelihood is that its yours.