Best Wifi enabled thermostat
Discussion
Back again with more TRV queries as trying to get my head around how best to solve our problem...
We have recently installed hive heating. We have two heating circuits, so two thermostats, plus hot water.
One heating circuit is only for the lounge, single radiator with no trv on it.
The other stat controls a further 11 rads, 10 with trvs, one without (in the same room as the stat)
Our problem is we have a couple of room rooms that are often a bit cooler than the rest of the house.... I thought the smart thing to do would be install smart TRVs on these rads however I think after alot of reading this wouldn't actually work as even if the temp in those rooms is requested to be higher than the main stat, if the main stat isn't on they won't call for heat.
I think, it seems, the best way to solve the issue is actually to install smart TRV's on the rest of the house, and use those to keep those rooms cooler, while allowing the main stat to run to a higher temp and heat the cold rooms?!
So main stat set to 22 degrees for example... this will heat the cooler rooms to approx 20 degrees, meanwhile the rest of the house is kept at a sensible temp by using the smart TRV to set those to say 19.
We have recently installed hive heating. We have two heating circuits, so two thermostats, plus hot water.
One heating circuit is only for the lounge, single radiator with no trv on it.
The other stat controls a further 11 rads, 10 with trvs, one without (in the same room as the stat)
Our problem is we have a couple of room rooms that are often a bit cooler than the rest of the house.... I thought the smart thing to do would be install smart TRVs on these rads however I think after alot of reading this wouldn't actually work as even if the temp in those rooms is requested to be higher than the main stat, if the main stat isn't on they won't call for heat.
I think, it seems, the best way to solve the issue is actually to install smart TRV's on the rest of the house, and use those to keep those rooms cooler, while allowing the main stat to run to a higher temp and heat the cold rooms?!
So main stat set to 22 degrees for example... this will heat the cooler rooms to approx 20 degrees, meanwhile the rest of the house is kept at a sensible temp by using the smart TRV to set those to say 19.
I'm on Tado, but I am assuming the principle will be the same.
TL:DR You need a smart TRV in the room with the thermostat.
Example (assume thermostat is in the hall):
Set Hall temp at 20degs.
Set smart TRVs in other rooms to say 22degs
Hall heats up to 20degs, thermostat switches off.
Smart rooms call for heat.
Hall dumb rad heats up and thermostat switches off. Heating off, smart rooms don't heat up.
Smart rooms call for heat again, Hall heats up again, thermostat turns off and the loop repeats as you've introduced a conflict between the dumb Hall and the smart rooms.
They will continue to fight one another and all you'll do is heat your hall.
By introducing a smart TRV to the Hall (which is paired with the thermostat - that is the thermostat controls the temp of the smart TRV, not the smart Hall TRV itself - in Tado this is a simple setting).
This arrangement controls the temp in the now smart hall and allows the other smart rooms to heat up as instructed.
HTH
TL:DR You need a smart TRV in the room with the thermostat.
Example (assume thermostat is in the hall):
Set Hall temp at 20degs.
Set smart TRVs in other rooms to say 22degs
Hall heats up to 20degs, thermostat switches off.
Smart rooms call for heat.
Hall dumb rad heats up and thermostat switches off. Heating off, smart rooms don't heat up.
Smart rooms call for heat again, Hall heats up again, thermostat turns off and the loop repeats as you've introduced a conflict between the dumb Hall and the smart rooms.
They will continue to fight one another and all you'll do is heat your hall.
By introducing a smart TRV to the Hall (which is paired with the thermostat - that is the thermostat controls the temp of the smart TRV, not the smart Hall TRV itself - in Tado this is a simple setting).
This arrangement controls the temp in the now smart hall and allows the other smart rooms to heat up as instructed.
HTH
Or a cheaper, dumber, but effective way would be to only add a smart TRV to the Hall (thermostat room).
This would allow all of the other dumb rads to heat up as normal, whilst keeping the Hall at a sensible temp without switching off the the thermostat.
You could then fit dumb thermostats to the other rooms, wacking up them up in the cold rooms and reducing them slightly in the warmer rooms to suit.
This would allow all of the other dumb rads to heat up as normal, whilst keeping the Hall at a sensible temp without switching off the the thermostat.
You could then fit dumb thermostats to the other rooms, wacking up them up in the cold rooms and reducing them slightly in the warmer rooms to suit.
Dan_1981 said:
Back again with more TRV queries as trying to get my head around how best to solve our problem...
We have recently installed hive heating. We have two heating circuits, so two thermostats, plus hot water.
?One heating circuit is only for the lounge, single radiator with no trv on it.
?The other stat controls a further 11 rads,? 10 with trvs, one without (in the same room as the stat)
Our problem is we have a couple of room rooms that are often a bit cooler than the rest of the house.... I thought the smart thing to do would be install smart TRVs on these rads however I think after alot of reading this wouldn't actually work as even if the temp in those rooms is requested to be higher than the main stat, if the main stat isn't on they won't call for heat.
?
I think, it seems, the best way to solve the issue is actually to install smart TRV's on the rest of the house, and use those to keep those rooms cooler, while allowing the main stat to run to a higher temp and heat the cold rooms?!
So main stat set to 22 degrees for example... this will heat the cooler rooms to approx 20 degrees, meanwhile the rest of the house is kept at a sensible temp by using the smart TRV to set those to say 19.
When you say cooler rooms, I assume you mean you want them the same as the rest of the house but they're cooler because of less insulation/draughts/lack of sun etc? If so can you not just relocate the Hive stat into one of the cooler rooms so heat is called more often, and then control the temperature in the other rooms with conventional TRVs?We have recently installed hive heating. We have two heating circuits, so two thermostats, plus hot water.
?One heating circuit is only for the lounge, single radiator with no trv on it.
?The other stat controls a further 11 rads,? 10 with trvs, one without (in the same room as the stat)
Our problem is we have a couple of room rooms that are often a bit cooler than the rest of the house.... I thought the smart thing to do would be install smart TRVs on these rads however I think after alot of reading this wouldn't actually work as even if the temp in those rooms is requested to be higher than the main stat, if the main stat isn't on they won't call for heat.
?
I think, it seems, the best way to solve the issue is actually to install smart TRV's on the rest of the house, and use those to keep those rooms cooler, while allowing the main stat to run to a higher temp and heat the cold rooms?!
So main stat set to 22 degrees for example... this will heat the cooler rooms to approx 20 degrees, meanwhile the rest of the house is kept at a sensible temp by using the smart TRV to set those to say 19.
Thanks both.
Yes when i say cooler, i mean draftier, shaded / or over the garage etc.
I think I can manage it though... rads are as below..
Downstairs
Hallway - no TRV - main stat - set stat to 22 degrees.
Lounge - x 1 rad, separate stat / heating circuit. Ignore & manage as stand alone
Downstairs toilet - x 1 rad, dumb trv. Leave as dumb & set to a 'three'
Kitchen / Diner / Utility Room - x 2 rads. Fit smart TRV to large dining room rad, leave smaller utility rad as dumb trv
Upstairs
Landing - small rad, leave as dumb trv, set to a 'three'
Bathroom & Ensuite - Towel rails, leave both as dumb and a high setting as we like them warm.
Office - Fit smart TRV - doesn't need to be warm when not in use
Master - Smart TRV, prefer bedroom a little cooler.
Both kids bedrooms - the cooler rooms. Leave as dumb TRV, turned up to a 6 and let the main stat run them - typically they are 2 degrees less than the main stat so would hit target of 20 degrees.
So i'd need to buy three smart TRV if I decided this way the right way to go....
Still not convinced
Yes when i say cooler, i mean draftier, shaded / or over the garage etc.
I think I can manage it though... rads are as below..
Downstairs
Hallway - no TRV - main stat - set stat to 22 degrees.
Lounge - x 1 rad, separate stat / heating circuit. Ignore & manage as stand alone
Downstairs toilet - x 1 rad, dumb trv. Leave as dumb & set to a 'three'
Kitchen / Diner / Utility Room - x 2 rads. Fit smart TRV to large dining room rad, leave smaller utility rad as dumb trv
Upstairs
Landing - small rad, leave as dumb trv, set to a 'three'
Bathroom & Ensuite - Towel rails, leave both as dumb and a high setting as we like them warm.
Office - Fit smart TRV - doesn't need to be warm when not in use
Master - Smart TRV, prefer bedroom a little cooler.
Both kids bedrooms - the cooler rooms. Leave as dumb TRV, turned up to a 6 and let the main stat run them - typically they are 2 degrees less than the main stat so would hit target of 20 degrees.
So i'd need to buy three smart TRV if I decided this way the right way to go....
Still not convinced
Dan_1981 said:
Our problem is we have a couple of room rooms that are often a bit cooler than the rest of the house.... I thought the smart thing to do would be install smart TRVs on these rads however I think after alot of reading this wouldn't actually work as even if the temp in those rooms is requested to be higher than the main stat, if the main stat isn't on they won't call for heat.
This is a question of balancing the radiators across the zone, turn down some lock-shields until you get even heating across the zone.Smart TRVs are so you can set that balance dynamically to a schedule, rather than set the balance itself. Eg if you only use the lounge in the evenings you could keep that room cool the rest of the day while having the kitchen and dining room warm.
Dan_1981 said:
Back again with more TRV queries as trying to get my head around how best to solve our problem...
We have recently installed hive heating. We have two heating circuits, so two thermostats, plus hot water.
?One heating circuit is only for the lounge, single radiator with no trv on it.
?The other stat controls a further 11 rads,? 10 with trvs, one without (in the same room as the stat)
Our problem is we have a couple of room rooms that are often a bit cooler than the rest of the house.... I thought the smart thing to do would be install smart TRVs on these rads however I think after alot of reading this wouldn't actually work as even if the temp in those rooms is requested to be higher than the main stat, if the main stat isn't on they won't call for heat.
?
I think, it seems, the best way to solve the issue is actually to install smart TRV's on the rest of the house, and use those to keep those rooms cooler, while allowing the main stat to run to a higher temp and heat the cold rooms?!
So main stat set to 22 degrees for example... this will heat the cooler rooms to approx 20 degrees, meanwhile the rest of the house is kept at a sensible temp by using the smart TRV to set those to say 19.
Tado smart TRV's will fire up the boiler and heat individual radiators if the temperature in that room is below the set point even if the main thermostat is below it's setpoint. When this happens it will also heat up all other non smart TRV radiators.We have recently installed hive heating. We have two heating circuits, so two thermostats, plus hot water.
?One heating circuit is only for the lounge, single radiator with no trv on it.
?The other stat controls a further 11 rads,? 10 with trvs, one without (in the same room as the stat)
Our problem is we have a couple of room rooms that are often a bit cooler than the rest of the house.... I thought the smart thing to do would be install smart TRVs on these rads however I think after alot of reading this wouldn't actually work as even if the temp in those rooms is requested to be higher than the main stat, if the main stat isn't on they won't call for heat.
?
I think, it seems, the best way to solve the issue is actually to install smart TRV's on the rest of the house, and use those to keep those rooms cooler, while allowing the main stat to run to a higher temp and heat the cold rooms?!
So main stat set to 22 degrees for example... this will heat the cooler rooms to approx 20 degrees, meanwhile the rest of the house is kept at a sensible temp by using the smart TRV to set those to say 19.
Tado Smart TRV's work great for isolating rooms that are not in use but when trying to warm a house with a mix of smart TRVs and dumb TRVs is a compromise, the main problem of the compromise is explaining what's going on to non-technical users of the system. It's best if all radiators have smart TRV's
paralla said:
Tado smart TRV's will fire up the boiler and heat individual radiators if the temperature in that room is below the set point even if the main thermostat is below it's setpoint. When this happens it will also heat up all other non smart TRV radiators.
Other radiators shouldn't come on as long as they at least have passive TRVs on them. paralla said:
Tado smart TRV's will fire up the boiler and heat individual radiators if the temperature in that room is below the set point even if the main thermostat is below it's setpoint. When this happens it will also heat up all other non smart TRV radiators.
That's correct, unless the thermostat is in a room with a dumb radiator. That dumb radiator will heat up, warm the thermostat room to the thermostat temp at which point the thermostat will turn off the heating. The smart TRVs will call for heat, but the thermostat and its dumb rad will switch it off again.You need a smart TRV in the thermostat room, controlled by the thermostat. That way you can set the thermostat room at 10degs and heat the smart TRV rooms to 22degs or whatever without the thermostat switching off the heating.
By the way, as posted earlier, Evohome is amazing when it works.
If you find yourself having to reinstall the system, be prepared to ask for help. The online workflow is terrible, and the telephone support nonexistent.
All working now, but has made me rethink if I would use the system again. Any electronic system that needs a professional installer to make it work is not a safe choice. Luckily the person that did mine believes in after sales service and answered my call, and helped.
All the other local installers I called were not available, or not I terested as I was not a client already. Two had given up on the work as it was too complex. And this is London.
If you find yourself having to reinstall the system, be prepared to ask for help. The online workflow is terrible, and the telephone support nonexistent.
All working now, but has made me rethink if I would use the system again. Any electronic system that needs a professional installer to make it work is not a safe choice. Luckily the person that did mine believes in after sales service and answered my call, and helped.
All the other local installers I called were not available, or not I terested as I was not a client already. Two had given up on the work as it was too complex. And this is London.
Tado is fine for a "dumb" boiler like mine - I have gradually added on bits and now have a wireless stat in every room I use, and a smart TRV on every rad. I don't think they will develop it much fiurther, their customer service answers are few and far between, and it does not integrate with other dashboards the way I want it to. But once you put the stuff in, it's great. Needs nothing, and will email you if there is an outage on their end.
Just installed Tado with Smart TRV's in our new house. Heating is on an S-plan with one thermostat controlling the valve for each floor, had to contact support for them to link the specific TRV's to the correct thermostat but it didn't take long and my only run in with their support has been great. Nothing to complain about and does what it says. Was pretty easy to set up too.
I may see about getting a TRV added to the bedroom where the thermostat is, but at the moment that gets warmer than intended due to other rooms on the floor calling for heat. Not the end of the world and I'm in two minds about putting it in our bedroom as they can be a touch noisy.
I may see about getting a TRV added to the bedroom where the thermostat is, but at the moment that gets warmer than intended due to other rooms on the floor calling for heat. Not the end of the world and I'm in two minds about putting it in our bedroom as they can be a touch noisy.
Harry Flashman said:
By the way, as posted earlier, Evohome is amazing when it works.
If you find yourself having to reinstall the system, be prepared to ask for help. The online workflow is terrible, and the telephone support nonexistent.
All working now, but has made me rethink if I would use the system again. Any electronic system that needs a professional installer to make it work is not a safe choice. Luckily the person that did mine believes in after sales service and answered my call, and helped.
All the other local installers I called were not available, or not I terested as I was not a client already. Two had given up on the work as it was too complex. And this is London.
I have to admit i'm having really mixed reviews with Evo home at the minute. I don't like at the minute that the boiler is firing up every other minute it would seem to warm up a room that's at the desired temperature. Also using the app doesn't seem to sync up to the main controller very well. If you find yourself having to reinstall the system, be prepared to ask for help. The online workflow is terrible, and the telephone support nonexistent.
All working now, but has made me rethink if I would use the system again. Any electronic system that needs a professional installer to make it work is not a safe choice. Luckily the person that did mine believes in after sales service and answered my call, and helped.
All the other local installers I called were not available, or not I terested as I was not a client already. Two had given up on the work as it was too complex. And this is London.
I have had a mix of standard TRVs and the HR91's up stairs and it just does not work at all so i've had to fork out earlier than i wanted for some for the rest of the rads as some rooms are just too hot!
Rojibo said:
I may see about getting a TRV added to the bedroom where the thermostat is, but at the moment that gets warmer than intended due to other rooms on the floor calling for heat. Not the end of the world and I'm in two minds about putting it in our bedroom as they can be a touch noisy.
Check your mountings - I find if the base of the TRV body is tightened too much, it tends to make the radiator act a bit like a speaker. Mine are virtually silent, and I can just notice them if I adjust the temp while listening, then it is just a faint buzz for a second or two..guindilias said:
Tado is fine for a "dumb" boiler like mine - I have gradually added on bits and now have a wireless stat in every room I use, and a smart TRV on every rad. I don't think they will develop it much fiurther, their customer service answers are few and far between, and it does not integrate with other dashboards the way I want it to. But once you put the stuff in, it's great. Needs nothing, and will email you if there is an outage on their end.
My guess is they're struggling with their pricing model vs the server running costs. They talk a good game on their support forum when they do reply, but they don't implement anything that involves more server hits. I don't think any of the hardware has been substantially updated in 5 years or so.What it does is really very good, as you say. But what's there isn't much different to when mine went in 7 years ago. You can't overlay temperatures from several zones on the same chart still. It's very annoying that you can't do all of the settings yourself, so it's a pain to make sure your setup will work as it should before you buy a load of kit.
My biggest complaint though is that they sell it as the eco option, never waste any heat etc etc. But if you use it with an unvented cylinder setup you can't use Open Therm and Hot Water - they need to update their hardware and they won't. They also don't have any communication back from the tank, a simple thermostat swap would let you know the tank temperature. By programming the tank volume, shower temp and flow rate that could be converted into minutes per shower. They could use temperature drop to detect showers and then fully manage the hot water to match anticipated demand and let you know how much water was being used etc. All really useful for reducing energy consumption.
As I said, I think they're hamstrung by running costs and market saturation and unable to fund development. Wouldn't be overly surprised if they move to a subscription of bankrupty approach eventually.
Gassing Station | Homes, Gardens and DIY | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff