Unsolicited letters from surveyors
Discussion
I recently applied for PP on a garage that is half mine, half my neighbour's. We get on very well and they were fully aware of the plans.
Today they brought me a letter they had received from an outfit called 'Vincent Brown & Associates, Party Wall Surveyors' based in Canary Wharf. Essentially it's a fear-inducing letter encouraging them to commission Vincent Brown to do a survey. It has a form to sign and return in a pre-paid envelope, nice and easy. There is no mention of the cost, but it says their neighbour (me) will be liable for the cost.
It really is no better than the PPI jackals, and one can't help thinking that if Vincent Brown were any good they would have proper customers, and wouldn't have to send out speculative letters, which they do no doubt by the thousand. A quick internet search reveals the nature of their business, and it seems almost guaranteed to cause disputes amongst neighbours and uncessary costs, so watch out!
Today they brought me a letter they had received from an outfit called 'Vincent Brown & Associates, Party Wall Surveyors' based in Canary Wharf. Essentially it's a fear-inducing letter encouraging them to commission Vincent Brown to do a survey. It has a form to sign and return in a pre-paid envelope, nice and easy. There is no mention of the cost, but it says their neighbour (me) will be liable for the cost.
It really is no better than the PPI jackals, and one can't help thinking that if Vincent Brown were any good they would have proper customers, and wouldn't have to send out speculative letters, which they do no doubt by the thousand. A quick internet search reveals the nature of their business, and it seems almost guaranteed to cause disputes amongst neighbours and uncessary costs, so watch out!
Vincent Brown Associates are very well known shisters in the Party Wall Surveying world.
As you have discovered, they scour planning applications and then send unsolicoted letters to neighbours. The information that they give is technically incorrect, and could potentially leave your neighbours liable for unnecessary costs if they sign up with them.
As you have discovered, they scour planning applications and then send unsolicoted letters to neighbours. The information that they give is technically incorrect, and could potentially leave your neighbours liable for unnecessary costs if they sign up with them.
blueg33 said:
Have you taken account of party wall act?
Its a letter, not a cold call so IMO a lot less irritating, you can open it when you want and bin it without having to speak to a pushy sales person, A long way off PPI cold calling
I saw it not just as opportunism but rabble-rousing - something that could cause serious disputes. My neighbour could easily have signed up, and unbeknownst to me I get a bill. A swift Google shows them to be little better than Gladstone Brooks, ie money-grubbing parasites - and I might just use their reply-paid envelope to tell them so. Or phone up and pretend to be my neighbour... that could be fun...Its a letter, not a cold call so IMO a lot less irritating, you can open it when you want and bin it without having to speak to a pushy sales person, A long way off PPI cold calling
They may not be in RICS but their letter has a 'Chartered Building Consultancy' logo on it - if that means anything?
When I applied for PP years ago I got loads of unsolicited quotes and offers to quote from builders.
Whilst PP remains accessible to the public we remain vulnerable to this sort of stuff. It ought to be possible for neighbours and other persons having an interest to get to look at plans but to bar the people who look at this stuff speculatively - a way would be to remove all addresses/names from the application before them being made accessible i.e public interest could still be served as those with an interest would already know the location.
Whilst PP remains accessible to the public we remain vulnerable to this sort of stuff. It ought to be possible for neighbours and other persons having an interest to get to look at plans but to bar the people who look at this stuff speculatively - a way would be to remove all addresses/names from the application before them being made accessible i.e public interest could still be served as those with an interest would already know the location.
Simpo Two said:
blueg33 said:
Have you taken account of party wall act?
Its a letter, not a cold call so IMO a lot less irritating, you can open it when you want and bin it without having to speak to a pushy sales person, A long way off PPI cold calling
I saw it not just as opportunism but rabble-rousing - something that could cause serious disputes. My neighbour could easily have signed up, and unbeknownst to me I get a bill. A swift Google shows them to be little better than Gladstone Brooks, ie money-grubbing parasites - and I might just use their reply-paid envelope to tell them so. Or phone up and pretend to be my neighbour... that could be fun...Its a letter, not a cold call so IMO a lot less irritating, you can open it when you want and bin it without having to speak to a pushy sales person, A long way off PPI cold calling
They may not be in RICS but their letter has a 'Chartered Building Consultancy' logo on it - if that means anything?
I received the same letter last year, it might even be the same firm, after my neighbour applied for planning.
It made me laugh actually, due to the fact our house is detached, as is theirs!
A complete waste of time and postage on their part. A basic bit of research would have confirmed that.
It made me laugh actually, due to the fact our house is detached, as is theirs!
A complete waste of time and postage on their part. A basic bit of research would have confirmed that.
Grandad Gaz said:
I received the same letter last year, it might even be the same firm, after my neighbour applied for planning.
It made me laugh actually, due to the fact our house is detached, as is theirs!
A complete waste of time and postage on their part. A basic bit of research would have confirmed that.
Cheaper to send the letter out than spend the time doing the research!It made me laugh actually, due to the fact our house is detached, as is theirs!
A complete waste of time and postage on their part. A basic bit of research would have confirmed that.
KTF said:
If the neighbour had signed them up and you then received the bill on your mat, would you really have to pay it given that you had not approved the work in the first place?
Their letter says 'As is usual in such matters Mr Simpo will be responsible for paying your surveyor's reasonable fees'.So yes, they just sign and return a form, and I get a bill. That's what's wrong IMHO.
There is a section in their T&Cs called 'Charges and Payment' but no amount is mentioned. A quick trawl suggests that whereas a standard fee might be £400, these guys charge £1,000. And no, I damn well wouldn't pay it! Fortunately my neighbours and I get on very well and the first thing they did was bring the leter round for a good laugh.
Simpo Two said:
KTF said:
If the neighbour had signed them up and you then received the bill on your mat, would you really have to pay it given that you had not approved the work in the first place?
Their letter says 'As is usual in such matters Mr Simpo will be responsible for paying your surveyor's reasonable fees'.So yes, they just sign and return a form, and I get a bill. That's what's wrong IMHO.
There is a section in their T&Cs called 'Charges and Payment' but no amount is mentioned. A quick trawl suggests that whereas a standard fee might be £400, these guys charge £1,000. And no, I damn well wouldn't pay it! Fortunately my neighbours and I get on very well and the first thing they did was bring the leter round for a good laugh.
You would only be responsible for the reasonable fees of the neighbour's surveyor, if that surveyor was properly appointed after you had served the appropriate Notice under the Act.
If your neighbour signed them up before you had even served the required Notice, then they are on a sticky wicket, and your neighbour will be on the hook for meeting their surveyor's fees.
Hey I'm L and I actually work for Vincent Brown, please don't 
me but hear me out on their behalf...
The aim really is not to induce fear in a neighbour. Unfortunately many neighbours (and parties undertaking work) are not aware of the Party Wall legislation and our letter serves to inform both parties. If a neighbour wishes to cancel their authorisation for us to advise on their behalf before a notice is served, we always honour that, no questions asked. We do not seek to ensnare people. We are a specialist party wall surveying firm and the majority of our business is not gained from our speculative letters. As mentioned above, it is not dissimilar to a builder sending a speculative letter to a party who has been granted PP.
The cost of going through the party wall process cannot be thought of as ‘unnecessary’ just as planning costs and building control fees are necessary. It is a legal obligation to serve notice on neighbours if you undertake certain types of work.
If anyone does have any questions please ask, it's much better to discuss it than make assumptions
me but hear me out on their behalf...The aim really is not to induce fear in a neighbour. Unfortunately many neighbours (and parties undertaking work) are not aware of the Party Wall legislation and our letter serves to inform both parties. If a neighbour wishes to cancel their authorisation for us to advise on their behalf before a notice is served, we always honour that, no questions asked. We do not seek to ensnare people. We are a specialist party wall surveying firm and the majority of our business is not gained from our speculative letters. As mentioned above, it is not dissimilar to a builder sending a speculative letter to a party who has been granted PP.
The cost of going through the party wall process cannot be thought of as ‘unnecessary’ just as planning costs and building control fees are necessary. It is a legal obligation to serve notice on neighbours if you undertake certain types of work.
If anyone does have any questions please ask, it's much better to discuss it than make assumptions
LGB said:
Hey I'm L and I actually work for Vincent Brown, please don't me but hear me out on their behalf...
The aim really is not to induce fear in a neighbour. Unfortunately many neighbours (and parties undertaking work) are not aware of the Party Wall legislation and our letter serves to inform both parties. If a neighbour wishes to cancel their authorisation for us to advise on their behalf before a notice is served, we always honour that, no questions asked. We do not seek to ensnare people. We are a specialist party wall surveying firm and the majority of our business is not gained from our speculative letters. As mentioned above, it is not dissimilar to a builder sending a speculative letter to a party who has been granted PP.
The cost of going through the party wall process cannot be thought of as ‘unnecessary’ just as planning costs and building control fees are necessary. It is a legal obligation to serve notice on neighbours if you undertake certain types of work.
If anyone does have any questions please ask, it's much better to discuss it than make assumptions
Thanks for joining the forum. I hope you stay, contribute and enjoy all that PH has to offer. me but hear me out on their behalf...The aim really is not to induce fear in a neighbour. Unfortunately many neighbours (and parties undertaking work) are not aware of the Party Wall legislation and our letter serves to inform both parties. If a neighbour wishes to cancel their authorisation for us to advise on their behalf before a notice is served, we always honour that, no questions asked. We do not seek to ensnare people. We are a specialist party wall surveying firm and the majority of our business is not gained from our speculative letters. As mentioned above, it is not dissimilar to a builder sending a speculative letter to a party who has been granted PP.
The cost of going through the party wall process cannot be thought of as ‘unnecessary’ just as planning costs and building control fees are necessary. It is a legal obligation to serve notice on neighbours if you undertake certain types of work.
If anyone does have any questions please ask, it's much better to discuss it than make assumptions
For now, can you please show the text of the letter you send to the neighbours of those who get PP? And also let us know when, typically, you send them out (with regard to the application/granting of PP)?
LGB said:
Hey I'm L and I actually work for Vincent Brown, please don't me but hear me out on their behalf...
The aim really is not to induce fear in a neighbour. Unfortunately many neighbours (and parties undertaking work) are not aware of the Party Wall legislation and our letter serves to inform both parties. If a neighbour wishes to cancel their authorisation for us to advise on their behalf before a notice is served, we always honour that, no questions asked. We do not seek to ensnare people. We are a specialist party wall surveying firm and the majority of our business is not gained from our speculative letters. As mentioned above, it is not dissimilar to a builder sending a speculative letter to a party who has been granted PP.
The cost of going through the party wall process cannot be thought of as ‘unnecessary’ just as planning costs and building control fees are necessary. It is a legal obligation to serve notice on neighbours if you undertake certain types of work.
If anyone does have any questions please ask, it's much better to discuss it than make assumptions
me but hear me out on their behalf...The aim really is not to induce fear in a neighbour. Unfortunately many neighbours (and parties undertaking work) are not aware of the Party Wall legislation and our letter serves to inform both parties. If a neighbour wishes to cancel their authorisation for us to advise on their behalf before a notice is served, we always honour that, no questions asked. We do not seek to ensnare people. We are a specialist party wall surveying firm and the majority of our business is not gained from our speculative letters. As mentioned above, it is not dissimilar to a builder sending a speculative letter to a party who has been granted PP.
The cost of going through the party wall process cannot be thought of as ‘unnecessary’ just as planning costs and building control fees are necessary. It is a legal obligation to serve notice on neighbours if you undertake certain types of work.
If anyone does have any questions please ask, it's much better to discuss it than make assumptions
Bookmarked.
Gassing Station | Homes, Gardens and DIY | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff