Discussion
Have you got enough space around the island? From the plan, it only looks like 750-ish mm at the 'top' & 'bottom' of the plan. I would say that you need at least a metre between units & ideally 1.2m.
Could you incorporate a peninsular, rather than an island, to give you more elbow room?
Could you use 'L' shaped base corner units to improve access?
As an aside, some kitchen manufacturers make shallow (300mm deep) floor units, removing the need to use wall units on the floor & some American-style F/F units are more than 900mm wide.
We're just coming to the end of a major kitchen refurb, so these issues are still quite 'fresh' in my mind….
Could you incorporate a peninsular, rather than an island, to give you more elbow room?
Could you use 'L' shaped base corner units to improve access?
As an aside, some kitchen manufacturers make shallow (300mm deep) floor units, removing the need to use wall units on the floor & some American-style F/F units are more than 900mm wide.
We're just coming to the end of a major kitchen refurb, so these issues are still quite 'fresh' in my mind….
Island looks big.
Access to cupboards under the island overhang looks awkward.
What's on top of the double oven, microwave? Looks very high to me. I'd move that elsewhere and raise both ovens a bit, putting a big pan drawer under the lower oven.
Also - one sink?? Where's your drainer?
Edit: I'd say there's also too much dead space under the sink with that blank. I'd rethink cupboard strategy there.
Access to cupboards under the island overhang looks awkward.
What's on top of the double oven, microwave? Looks very high to me. I'd move that elsewhere and raise both ovens a bit, putting a big pan drawer under the lower oven.
Also - one sink?? Where's your drainer?
Edit: I'd say there's also too much dead space under the sink with that blank. I'd rethink cupboard strategy there.
Edited by hornetrider on Friday 23 January 12:41
Thank you for your comments/suggestions.
The island isn't quite right in that picture.
The plan is to have an island that's 1200mm wide and 1800mm long. At that point, the whole space is 4300mm wide so allowing for 600mm each side for normal cabinets leaves 3100mm between which is 950mm all around which should be ample. My plan (slightly different to this one) for the island will still have a couple of cabinets recessed under the overhang of the granite, however the plan is to store stuff here that isn't for every day storage - stuff that's used only occasionally. It'll be a bit of a pain, however there'll only be a 300mm overhang.
The reason for going island instead of peninsular was because it'll have less impact on the use of the rest of the room.
The corner units I'm going to use are quite clever - they have shelves that totally come out of the cabinets on a system that allows access to all that space. Much nicer than having L shaped cabinets with 2 doors.
I know some American Fridge Freezers can be exactly 900mm or slightly larger. What I'm currently unsure about is how much space either side is required. That is a point I've put to matey doing the design.
That is a microwave on top of the double oven. I've never been sold on that to be honest - I don't know why you wouldn't just whack it on the counter really!
I'm going to have one big sink with draining grooves in the granite. I don't like 2 small sinks personally.
The area under the sink isn't actually a blanking plate. Again, a clever cabinet design - the top draw is for bottles of cleaning stuff etc that is a U shape - so you can fit stuff either side of the sink and between the sink and the front of the cabinet if that makes sense. The bottom draw is a big draw. We then have a 900mm draw under the induction hob for cutlery etc followed by 2 900mm pan draws under that.
I think I've covered everything. Any further comments chaps and chapesses?!
The island isn't quite right in that picture.
The plan is to have an island that's 1200mm wide and 1800mm long. At that point, the whole space is 4300mm wide so allowing for 600mm each side for normal cabinets leaves 3100mm between which is 950mm all around which should be ample. My plan (slightly different to this one) for the island will still have a couple of cabinets recessed under the overhang of the granite, however the plan is to store stuff here that isn't for every day storage - stuff that's used only occasionally. It'll be a bit of a pain, however there'll only be a 300mm overhang.
The reason for going island instead of peninsular was because it'll have less impact on the use of the rest of the room.
The corner units I'm going to use are quite clever - they have shelves that totally come out of the cabinets on a system that allows access to all that space. Much nicer than having L shaped cabinets with 2 doors.
I know some American Fridge Freezers can be exactly 900mm or slightly larger. What I'm currently unsure about is how much space either side is required. That is a point I've put to matey doing the design.
That is a microwave on top of the double oven. I've never been sold on that to be honest - I don't know why you wouldn't just whack it on the counter really!
I'm going to have one big sink with draining grooves in the granite. I don't like 2 small sinks personally.
The area under the sink isn't actually a blanking plate. Again, a clever cabinet design - the top draw is for bottles of cleaning stuff etc that is a U shape - so you can fit stuff either side of the sink and between the sink and the front of the cabinet if that makes sense. The bottom draw is a big draw. We then have a 900mm draw under the induction hob for cutlery etc followed by 2 900mm pan draws under that.
I think I've covered everything. Any further comments chaps and chapesses?!
I've no comments to make about the layout, bar what has already been said about the island, but I notice that the design has several of these
divider panels and end panels that go all the way to the ground. I'd avoid them if you possibly can, they are something of a nuisance when it comes to floor sweeping/mopping, and careful fitting is needed to ensure that water doesn't eventually find its way in and adversely effect the substrate of the panels.
divider panels and end panels that go all the way to the ground. I'd avoid them if you possibly can, they are something of a nuisance when it comes to floor sweeping/mopping, and careful fitting is needed to ensure that water doesn't eventually find its way in and adversely effect the substrate of the panels.
American fridge freezers are 70cm deep. Some deeper than that.
It will therefore stick out if using standard 60cm deep carcasses,
If going bespoke, have the carcasses made deeper so that the fridge doesn't look silly sticking out.
But also reduce your island.
90cm isn't a lot all round and the fridge freezer will knock this down further still.
Try to allow 1.2m around island
Eta: especially allow this with the positioning of your dishwasher.
It will be a right pain filling and emptying that with the island so close.
Think of how much space is left once that door is open and the drawer out.
P. S: 2 dishwashers
It will therefore stick out if using standard 60cm deep carcasses,
If going bespoke, have the carcasses made deeper so that the fridge doesn't look silly sticking out.
But also reduce your island.
90cm isn't a lot all round and the fridge freezer will knock this down further still.
Try to allow 1.2m around island
Eta: especially allow this with the positioning of your dishwasher.
It will be a right pain filling and emptying that with the island so close.
Think of how much space is left once that door is open and the drawer out.
P. S: 2 dishwashers
Edited by Ilikebeaver on Friday 23 January 15:22
Do you have an additional pantry anywhere in the house?
I only ask as depending on how tall you are, you may find your wall cabinets make the workspace below almost unusable. If you raise these, others not as tall as you may find it difficult to use these cabinets. It's all up to your personal preference.
I wouldn't worry too much about the cabinet access beneath the island. When you think about it, there are cabinets in your kitchen which you will rarely use - so placing larger / not so frequently used items in these cabinets will be a good option and it is essentially 'free' storage space.
I would avoid the built-in microwave. These are incredibly expensive imo and given the amount of use the microwave gets, if you have an issue with it, a counter top microwave in an appliance garage is a better option. But again it is up to you.
If you are planning on using groves in the granite as a drainer, that is fine, however i would recommend looking at a quartz counter top instead of granite.
We have had problems with granite due to staining and it's porous nature. Quartz will be of comparable price, but much easier to maintain.
When designing the cutout of the fridge, go a little larger than the standard size iirc, 36" is the standard width... however again, if anything goes wrong with the fridge, you will want to be able to replace with a new unit with little problems.
Oh, I would also bring the ceiling down on top of your appliance wall, so that the cabinets butt up against the ceiling. It'll look much sharper imo and stop dust etc. gathering on top of your units.
It looks like a nice kitchen....
I only ask as depending on how tall you are, you may find your wall cabinets make the workspace below almost unusable. If you raise these, others not as tall as you may find it difficult to use these cabinets. It's all up to your personal preference.
I wouldn't worry too much about the cabinet access beneath the island. When you think about it, there are cabinets in your kitchen which you will rarely use - so placing larger / not so frequently used items in these cabinets will be a good option and it is essentially 'free' storage space.
I would avoid the built-in microwave. These are incredibly expensive imo and given the amount of use the microwave gets, if you have an issue with it, a counter top microwave in an appliance garage is a better option. But again it is up to you.
If you are planning on using groves in the granite as a drainer, that is fine, however i would recommend looking at a quartz counter top instead of granite.
We have had problems with granite due to staining and it's porous nature. Quartz will be of comparable price, but much easier to maintain.
When designing the cutout of the fridge, go a little larger than the standard size iirc, 36" is the standard width... however again, if anything goes wrong with the fridge, you will want to be able to replace with a new unit with little problems.
Oh, I would also bring the ceiling down on top of your appliance wall, so that the cabinets butt up against the ceiling. It'll look much sharper imo and stop dust etc. gathering on top of your units.
It looks like a nice kitchen....
Edited by toohuge on Friday 23 January 15:26
I'd agree on the comments regarding the island. 950mm may seem like a lot but in reality it'll feel rather tight especially as your kitchen area is already fairly snug. The worktops will overhang the cabinets slightly and you may lose another 10mm or so if the walls where you main run units run is a bit uneven. Doesn't seem like much but it all adds up when you are already tight here. 1200mm gaps all round are really optimum.
Ilikebeaver said:
American fridge freezers are 70cm deep. Some deeper than that.
It will therefore stick out if using standard 60cm deep carcasses,
If going bespoke, have the carcasses made deeper so that the fridge doesn't look silly sticking out.
I think you'll find that it needs to stick out beyond the line of the carcasses so that the doors can be opened fully to allow access to the drawers @ the bottom.It will therefore stick out if using standard 60cm deep carcasses,
If going bespoke, have the carcasses made deeper so that the fridge doesn't look silly sticking out.
Ilikebeaver said:
American fridge freezers are 70cm deep. Some deeper than that.
It will therefore stick out if using standard 60cm deep carcasses,
If going bespoke, have the carcasses made deeper so that the fridge doesn't look silly sticking out.
The fridge will stick out a bit to accommodate the wide opening doors that are required.It will therefore stick out if using standard 60cm deep carcasses,
If going bespoke, have the carcasses made deeper so that the fridge doesn't look silly sticking out.
Ilikebeaver said:
But also reduce your island.
90cm isn't a lot all round and the fridge freezer will knock this down further still.
Try to allow 1.2m around island
1.2m around the island would give me a 70cm (which would become 60cm) island which seems, to me anyway, a poor use of space given the size of area available.90cm isn't a lot all round and the fridge freezer will knock this down further still.
Try to allow 1.2m around island
I rearranged my parents' kitchen last night (they have a movable island) to 90cm all the way around and it was perfectly usable including loading the dishwasher etc.
Ilikebeaver said:
P. S: 2 dishwashers
Wondered about having 2 dishwashers... 
toohuge said:
Do you have an additional pantry anywhere in the house?
I only ask as depending on how tall you are, you may find your wall cabinets make the workspace below almost unusable. If you raise these, others not as tall as you may find it difficult to use these cabinets. It's all up to your personal preference.
No additional pantry, but do have good sized utility. I need space above the cabinets for the Sonos to go I only ask as depending on how tall you are, you may find your wall cabinets make the workspace below almost unusable. If you raise these, others not as tall as you may find it difficult to use these cabinets. It's all up to your personal preference.
toohuge said:
I wouldn't worry too much about the cabinet access beneath the island. When you think about it, there are cabinets in your kitchen which you will rarely use - so placing larger / not so frequently used items in these cabinets will be a good option and it is essentially 'free' storage space.
That's the plan!toohuge said:
I would avoid the built-in microwave. These are incredibly expensive imo and given the amount of use the microwave gets, if you have an issue with it, a counter top microwave in an appliance garage is a better option. But again it is up to you.
Agree with that after sleeping on it again. No built in microwave.toohuge said:
When designing the cutout of the fridge, go a little larger than the standard size iirc, 36" is the standard width... however again, if anything goes wrong with the fridge, you will want to be able to replace with a new unit with little problems.
It does need to be bigger. I've looked up a couple of fridge options and they need to be wider than that.toohuge said:
Oh, I would also bring the ceiling down on top of your appliance wall, so that the cabinets butt up against the ceiling. It'll look much sharper imo and stop dust etc. gathering on top of your units.
But Sonos!!!toohuge said:
It looks like a nice kitchen....
Thank you - fingers crossed it'll turn out well!blade runner said:
you may lose another 10mm or so if the walls where you main run units run is a bit uneven
All brand new walls - I hope they'll be better than that!!herewego said:
Is it OK to have the oven next to the fridge?
Honestly, I don't know, however it's not the first I've seen like this. I will ask the question however. I do intend to use reasonable brands of appliances. I could put ovens under the induction hob, however I do like the ovens in a full height cabinet. Maybe there just isn't the space for that...singlecoil said:
Most decent makes will have a website from which you can download the fitting instructions, and those will normally give detailed info on how much fitting space is needed. Quite often the housing size needed will vary depending on how wide the customer requires the doors to open.
Spot on - they do seem to which will be useful! Fancy quoting for the job - it's not a million miles away from where you're based.The Moose said:
singlecoil said:
Most decent makes will have a website from which you can download the fitting instructions, and those will normally give detailed info on how much fitting space is needed. Quite often the housing size needed will vary depending on how wide the customer requires the doors to open.
Spot on - they do seem to which will be useful! Fancy quoting for the job - it's not a million miles away from where you're based.I've had a close look at the layout. To my mind there are nowhere near enough drawers and far too many plain cupboards with shelves. I think you could do a lot better if I can say that without causing offence 
Drawer units are somewhat more expensive that plain cupboards but they are so much more usable, they don't hold more but what they hold is so much easier to reach. For instance. Given full extension drawers you can reach stuff that's behind other stuff, that's not so easy with a fixed shelf, especially if you are having to bend down to see what's in it anyway.
I only supply cabinetry, so don't quote for worktops, appliances, fitting etc, as others firms do include these or some of them, comparing quotes can be tricky. AFAICS there are 24 units in the design shown, counting the doubles as one each. I don't think I would be inclined to quote for an equivalent of what's shown in the design above, but I think I could do it a lot better and still be under 5 figures.
Drawer units are somewhat more expensive that plain cupboards but they are so much more usable, they don't hold more but what they hold is so much easier to reach. For instance. Given full extension drawers you can reach stuff that's behind other stuff, that's not so easy with a fixed shelf, especially if you are having to bend down to see what's in it anyway.
I only supply cabinetry, so don't quote for worktops, appliances, fitting etc, as others firms do include these or some of them, comparing quotes can be tricky. AFAICS there are 24 units in the design shown, counting the doubles as one each. I don't think I would be inclined to quote for an equivalent of what's shown in the design above, but I think I could do it a lot better and still be under 5 figures.
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