A++ LED downlighting - which ones?
Discussion
Buzz84 said:
red_slr said:
What is the cost of this conversion? We are moving into a new place and there are 35 GU10s, maybe a few more I missed.
If you already have the fittings installed and want to upgrade them to LED's then the LAP LED's that Screwfix are great, I have 5 in my kitchen and they are really good, and all the reviews on the screwfix website are positive. plus they are the right size to be a direct hassle free upgrade.http://www.screwfix.com/p/lap-gu10-led-lamp-346lm-...
http://www.screwfix.com/p/lap-gu10-led-lamps-346lm...
http://www.screwfix.com/p/lap-gu10-led-lamp-250lm-...
smn159 said:
RobinOakapple said:
I think everybody gets that they are good, the thing is, how much do they cost?
Well a quick Google suggests < £30, but suggest that you give Guy a callWe have a ton of these - http://www.ledhut.co.uk/spot-lights/gu10-led-bulbs...
The Zep things were all well and good, but blimey they were expensive, plus the cost of ripping out dozens of perfectly serviceable GU10 downlighters and cutting all new holes was bonkers. We used the Ledhut bunch above, and ordered about 8 different bulbs, tried them out simultaneously and then settled on the one I linked above as the best compromise between brightness and power use.
The Zep things were all well and good, but blimey they were expensive, plus the cost of ripping out dozens of perfectly serviceable GU10 downlighters and cutting all new holes was bonkers. We used the Ledhut bunch above, and ordered about 8 different bulbs, tried them out simultaneously and then settled on the one I linked above as the best compromise between brightness and power use.
RedLeicester said:
We have a ton of these - http://www.ledhut.co.uk/spot-lights/gu10-led-bulbs...
The Zep things were all well and good, but blimey they were expensive, plus the cost of ripping out dozens of perfectly serviceable GU10 downlighters and cutting all new holes was bonkers. We used the Ledhut bunch above, and ordered about 8 different bulbs, tried them out simultaneously and then settled on the one I linked above as the best compromise between brightness and power use.
To be fair, you bought yours quite some time ago when they were still reasonably new and yes, expensive. They've come down significantly since.The Zep things were all well and good, but blimey they were expensive, plus the cost of ripping out dozens of perfectly serviceable GU10 downlighters and cutting all new holes was bonkers. We used the Ledhut bunch above, and ordered about 8 different bulbs, tried them out simultaneously and then settled on the one I linked above as the best compromise between brightness and power use.
G
E36GUY said:
Jimboka said:
Homebase TCP LED bulbs are great prices at the moment . Under £3 for candle bulbs or pairs of gu10.. Loads of shapes & sizes, ..
250 lumens. Only half what you'll get from a 50W halogen. Just saying. Again.We just recently moved into a new house that had 6 GU10s in the bathroom, 9 in the kitchen, 2 in the downstairs toilet, 3 outside and 2 in the over extractor hood. All about 50w each. I replaced all of them with the 346lumen LAP ones from screwfix and haven't been disappointed. I'm guessing the tech has come on a bit since Guy's post in 2011 as they don't have massive heatsinks nor do they run very hot?
350 lumen is equivalent to a 35W halogen so not a 50W replacement but if they are working for you then that's what matters.
Remember, to look at them directly, given the light source for LED is far more intense, they will appear brighter than comparing it by eye to a 50 halogen but it's deceiving. The lux level (the level of light at a given distance from source) is where you would see the differences.
350 lumen is a realistic expectation for a retrofit hence why yours are not particularly hot. More than that needed you really want to go for a proper down light. With the limited heat sink you have, that's running about at capacity. If you simply up the wattage then this is when the sink would get overpowered.
We tested a remaining nameless retrofit GU10 LED lamp recommended on PH which was claiming a frankly ludicrous 580 lumens from 9W. We fitted it to a lux meter at 500mm distance. When it came on it was 1900 lux which was a decent start but an hour later, it was too hot to touch and the lux had dropped to 600. Thus it had lost 70% of it's initial output as it heated up. Ultimately, that's going to lead to failure.
It's the heat generated by electricity entering the semi-conductor part of the LED that we are needing to keep out of the diode itself to ensure that remains cool. If you can't do that effectively the diode will die in time. Further, as with all LED lights, you have the driver involved. With a down light these are separate items of a size typically a little larger than a 10 pack of fags. In a retrofit, this has been compressed into a tiny little package to fit within the lamp cap. Transformers by nature generate a bit of heat themselves so if you've got a heat sink that's running hotter than ideal and that is all running up into a tiny driver that itself has no breathing space then again, this can lead to failure. Pretty much all the GU10 failures I have witnessed are down to the failure of this part.
That is why the retrofits have limitations. I've never said they are rubbish - just that they have limitations with regards to output and lifespan. It's also important to understand that at the cheaper end of the market you really will be getting lower grade (wide step macadam ellipse) LED diodes. Effectively this means a looser tolerance around a colour temperature. You may think you are getting 3000k but with a wide step LED, this could be +/- 2-300k either side of that desired mark. Therefore, if you have several lights running along a wall for example, the output colours will all be varying shades as you can see below.
Not that they wont be bright neccessarily but the colour consistency and CRI (Colour Rendering Index - how correct colours look under that light) will not be anywhere near as good as higher spec product. Retrofit lamps by Soraa for example - which are about the best on the market using LEDs of the grade that we do cost pretty much what a complete down light does!
If one's happy driving a Lada great but if you want a Mercedes with leather, Bose and Nav then it's going to cost you more. Our market is no different.
Remember, to look at them directly, given the light source for LED is far more intense, they will appear brighter than comparing it by eye to a 50 halogen but it's deceiving. The lux level (the level of light at a given distance from source) is where you would see the differences.
350 lumen is a realistic expectation for a retrofit hence why yours are not particularly hot. More than that needed you really want to go for a proper down light. With the limited heat sink you have, that's running about at capacity. If you simply up the wattage then this is when the sink would get overpowered.
We tested a remaining nameless retrofit GU10 LED lamp recommended on PH which was claiming a frankly ludicrous 580 lumens from 9W. We fitted it to a lux meter at 500mm distance. When it came on it was 1900 lux which was a decent start but an hour later, it was too hot to touch and the lux had dropped to 600. Thus it had lost 70% of it's initial output as it heated up. Ultimately, that's going to lead to failure.
It's the heat generated by electricity entering the semi-conductor part of the LED that we are needing to keep out of the diode itself to ensure that remains cool. If you can't do that effectively the diode will die in time. Further, as with all LED lights, you have the driver involved. With a down light these are separate items of a size typically a little larger than a 10 pack of fags. In a retrofit, this has been compressed into a tiny little package to fit within the lamp cap. Transformers by nature generate a bit of heat themselves so if you've got a heat sink that's running hotter than ideal and that is all running up into a tiny driver that itself has no breathing space then again, this can lead to failure. Pretty much all the GU10 failures I have witnessed are down to the failure of this part.
That is why the retrofits have limitations. I've never said they are rubbish - just that they have limitations with regards to output and lifespan. It's also important to understand that at the cheaper end of the market you really will be getting lower grade (wide step macadam ellipse) LED diodes. Effectively this means a looser tolerance around a colour temperature. You may think you are getting 3000k but with a wide step LED, this could be +/- 2-300k either side of that desired mark. Therefore, if you have several lights running along a wall for example, the output colours will all be varying shades as you can see below.
Not that they wont be bright neccessarily but the colour consistency and CRI (Colour Rendering Index - how correct colours look under that light) will not be anywhere near as good as higher spec product. Retrofit lamps by Soraa for example - which are about the best on the market using LEDs of the grade that we do cost pretty much what a complete down light does!
If one's happy driving a Lada great but if you want a Mercedes with leather, Bose and Nav then it's going to cost you more. Our market is no different.
Edited by E36GUY on Thursday 6th August 10:23
Much as I like the apparent build quality and the output of these ZEP lights, having had 2 of 8 ZEP 1s fail in 18 months is slightly concerning. Having said that, the first was swapped for a new unit no problem, although the second I'm still waiting to hear about. Guy, 2 lights were received back in your office on 4 August. Would you be able to find out what the status is please, as I've heard nothing. Many thanks.
Number 7 said:
Much as I like the apparent build quality and the output of these ZEP lights, having had 2 of 8 ZEP 1s fail in 18 months is slightly concerning. Having said that, the first was swapped for a new unit no problem, although the second I'm still waiting to hear about. Guy, 2 lights were received back in your office on 4 August. Would you be able to find out what the status is please, as I've heard nothing. Many thanks.
You need to contact Layla at our office to put a chase on that as she administers any warranty requirements. Also - I don't know who to look up if I could as I do struggle to match PH names to real names! Gassing Station | Homes, Gardens and DIY | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff