Discussion
Broadly speaking
- It is always cheaper to let something heated go cold/cooler and then reheat, than it is to maintain a temperature.
- Heating water is cheaper with mains gas than electricity, because the latter is about three times the cost per kWh.
- Cold water out of the main is likely only a handful of degrees warmer than outside temperatures, so no real saving there.
At which point the chemicals cost is likely what swings it, but while I don't have one of these pools, if you are literally going to use it for one/two nights maybe you don't really need them?
Obviously the longer term answer is that regardless of if you approve of their methods of campaign, Insulate Briton are bang on the money, that energy is and should be to precious to just spunk it up the wall in favour of sorting the job out properly and keeping an almost uninsulated cubic meter of water in you r garden at bathing temperature in January is bonkers.
£3/day is over a grand a year, so if you actually want it for more than a few months lockdown you should seriously think about getting the proper thing.
- It is always cheaper to let something heated go cold/cooler and then reheat, than it is to maintain a temperature.
- Heating water is cheaper with mains gas than electricity, because the latter is about three times the cost per kWh.
- Cold water out of the main is likely only a handful of degrees warmer than outside temperatures, so no real saving there.
At which point the chemicals cost is likely what swings it, but while I don't have one of these pools, if you are literally going to use it for one/two nights maybe you don't really need them?
Obviously the longer term answer is that regardless of if you approve of their methods of campaign, Insulate Briton are bang on the money, that energy is and should be to precious to just spunk it up the wall in favour of sorting the job out properly and keeping an almost uninsulated cubic meter of water in you r garden at bathing temperature in January is bonkers.
£3/day is over a grand a year, so if you actually want it for more than a few months lockdown you should seriously think about getting the proper thing.
I'm still running my 10 year old Master Spa - been through 3 re-circulation pumps and one light in that time, but otherwise been good to me.
I turn it off once outside temperatures get low because the heating costs go up.
If i had to replace it - i would probably go for a two man tub, because it's mainly me using it with the wife occasionally getting in - realistically the image of having a great big party with everyone in the tub doesn't happen and paying to heat all that water along with the chemicals is becoming marginal with the expected price increases coming soon.
Also having used a heat-pump heated hot tub when i was away on holiday, that's the next thing i want to consider - because heat pumps are most efficient when it's warm - which is also when i use it the most.
I turn it off once outside temperatures get low because the heating costs go up.
If i had to replace it - i would probably go for a two man tub, because it's mainly me using it with the wife occasionally getting in - realistically the image of having a great big party with everyone in the tub doesn't happen and paying to heat all that water along with the chemicals is becoming marginal with the expected price increases coming soon.
Also having used a heat-pump heated hot tub when i was away on holiday, that's the next thing i want to consider - because heat pumps are most efficient when it's warm - which is also when i use it the most.
dhutch said:
Broadly speaking
- It is always cheaper to let something heated go cold/cooler and then reheat, than it is to maintain a temperature.
- Heating water is cheaper with mains gas than electricity, because the latter is about three times the cost per kWh.
- Cold water out of the main is likely only a handful of degrees warmer than outside temperatures, so no real saving there.
At which point the chemicals cost is likely what swings it, but while I don't have one of these pools, if you are literally going to use it for one/two nights maybe you don't really need them?
Obviously the longer term answer is that regardless of if you approve of their methods of campaign, Insulate Briton are bang on the money, that energy is and should be to precious to just spunk it up the wall in favour of sorting the job out properly and keeping an almost uninsulated cubic meter of water in you r garden at bathing temperature in January is bonkers.
£3/day is over a grand a year, so if you actually want it for more than a few months lockdown you should seriously think about getting the proper thing.
It’s the actual “how much does it cost for a gas boiler to heat X litres” I’m really interested in. I get the general principals….maybe I just accept that, empty when not using and fill when we want….- It is always cheaper to let something heated go cold/cooler and then reheat, than it is to maintain a temperature.
- Heating water is cheaper with mains gas than electricity, because the latter is about three times the cost per kWh.
- Cold water out of the main is likely only a handful of degrees warmer than outside temperatures, so no real saving there.
At which point the chemicals cost is likely what swings it, but while I don't have one of these pools, if you are literally going to use it for one/two nights maybe you don't really need them?
Obviously the longer term answer is that regardless of if you approve of their methods of campaign, Insulate Briton are bang on the money, that energy is and should be to precious to just spunk it up the wall in favour of sorting the job out properly and keeping an almost uninsulated cubic meter of water in you r garden at bathing temperature in January is bonkers.
£3/day is over a grand a year, so if you actually want it for more than a few months lockdown you should seriously think about getting the proper thing.
You don’t have a hot tub? perhaps you don’t appreciate it can be a nice experience to chill out with a beer on a crisp starry evening. I recommend it! Less so on a dreary grey wet evening, mind you!
Insulate Britain? Bunch of nutters, IMHO…. ringleader sounds a great guy too
We are reasonably aware of energy costs/usage….had solar for over a decade, run a small EV for 80% of our motoring, etc etc….but you still have to have *some* fun along the way. We will go months without using it….but sadly no point us lashing out thousands on ‘the proper thing’ - our garden doesn’t have spectacular views that we would want to make it worth having there all year round, Covid excepted….& we aren’t regular hot tub people in general, hence just having the inflatable one!
eliot said:
I'm still running my 10 year old Master Spa - been through 3 re-circulation pumps and one light in that time, but otherwise been good to me.
I turn it off once outside temperatures get low because the heating costs go up.
If i had to replace it - i would probably go for a two man tub, because it's mainly me using it with the wife occasionally getting in - realistically the image of having a great big party with everyone in the tub doesn't happen and paying to heat all that water along with the chemicals is becoming marginal with the expected price increases coming soon.
Also having used a heat-pump heated hot tub when i was away on holiday, that's the next thing i want to consider - because heat pumps are most efficient when it's warm - which is also when i use it the most.
I use an ASHP to heat my custom tub. In summer the costs are around £1 a day depending on how mild it is (Scotland). The tub holds around 3000L and is reasonably insulated, but not perfect.I turn it off once outside temperatures get low because the heating costs go up.
If i had to replace it - i would probably go for a two man tub, because it's mainly me using it with the wife occasionally getting in - realistically the image of having a great big party with everyone in the tub doesn't happen and paying to heat all that water along with the chemicals is becoming marginal with the expected price increases coming soon.
Also having used a heat-pump heated hot tub when i was away on holiday, that's the next thing i want to consider - because heat pumps are most efficient when it's warm - which is also when i use it the most.
In winter time the costs can be huge, especially when its low temps and damp. The unit is nearly always on and off with defrost cycles and can burn through £5 a day no problems. This is what they consider a 10kW unit, that uses around 2kW when operating.
mikeiow said:
It’s the actual “how much does it cost for a gas boiler to heat X litres” I’m really interested in. I get the general principals….maybe I just accept that, empty when not using and fill when we want….
Energy required = Mass of water (1kg/litre) x Specific heat capacity water (4184 J/kgK) x deltaT Energy cost = Cost of energy per unit x number of units needed x efficiency of process.
Stick it all in a spreadsheet, assuming or measuring values for start temp of the 'cold' water, and boiler/cylinder efficiency (maybe 80%), google an give any unit conversions required, kWh to Joule (3600,000) etc. and allow you to move your assumptions around to see how much the effect things if that is of interest.
mikeiow said:
You don’t have a hot tub? perhaps you don’t appreciate it can be a nice experience to chill out with a beer on a crisp starry evening. I recommend it! Less so on a dreary grey wet evening, mind you!
We don't currently own a hot-tub for various reasons including the initial purchase price, running costs, and having more important home improvements to complete before that. However we have used a hot tub many a time and do enjoy them a lot, typically several times a year, with our last holiday to the lakes involved a hillside cottage with a hot tub which looked out over the property and the whole valley, which was absolutely lovely, even the night it was raining, and having one at our house at some point has not been ruled out at all.I am well up fun, and have a significant number of hobbies and past times, which does obviously include consuming energy for enjoyment, not against that at all and don't even have any problem at all with inflatable hot tubs, in effect an adult paddling pool with heater, but they are equally clearly not intended to form part of a permeant installation. Its a slight shame nobody supplies a foam filled 'self inflating' hot tub with insulated walls, base and lid because that would make a nice mid point between and air-filled and rigid foam tub.
Alt view - a proper one from Jacuzzi on 0% is £130 a month. The quality of the unit versus a ‘holiday cottage’ one is likely to be chalk and cheese in terms of jets, features and thermal insulation
Compared to an inflated one - multiply that by 5
Our Jacuzzi has barely affected our electricity bill, the frost or snow remains in situ on the lid such is the insulation.
Compared to an inflated one - multiply that by 5
Our Jacuzzi has barely affected our electricity bill, the frost or snow remains in situ on the lid such is the insulation.
PushedDover said:
Alt view - a proper one from Jacuzzi on 0% is £130 a month. The quality of the unit versus a ‘holiday cottage’ one is likely to be chalk and cheese in terms of jets, features and thermal insulation
Compared to an inflated one - multiply that by 5
Our Jacuzzi has barely affected our electricity bill, the frost or snow remains in situ on the lid such is the insulation.
Compared to an inflated one - multiply that by 5
Our Jacuzzi has barely affected our electricity bill, the frost or snow remains in situ on the lid such is the insulation.
dhutch said:
£3/day is over a grand a year, so if you actually want it for more than a few months lockdown you should seriously think about getting the proper thing.
Exactly. If already paying £90/month on electric to run an inflatable, surely it doesnt even need 'man maths' to make the numbers talk.PushedDover said:
Alt view - a proper one from Jacuzzi on 0% is £130 a month. The quality of the unit versus a ‘holiday cottage’ one is likely to be chalk and cheese in terms of jets, features and thermal insulation
Compared to an inflated one - multiply that by 5
Our Jacuzzi has barely affected our electricity bill, the frost or snow remains in situ on the lid such is the insulation.
What's the RRP like though? Just had a look, don't fancy signing up for yet more spam just to see prices...Compared to an inflated one - multiply that by 5
Our Jacuzzi has barely affected our electricity bill, the frost or snow remains in situ on the lid such is the insulation.
8bit said:
What's the RRP like though? Just had a look, don't fancy signing up for yet more spam just to see prices...
Ours ? £7,100 for an outside bath
BUT to be fair - we have spectacular views, we use it lots and now rarely watch nonsense on TV, sharing some catch up time (not adding protein strands !) and don’t use the inside bath.
Perhaps I can sell you a bath ?
I’d agree 7k is barking. £140 pm is acceptable and I see it as a tank and a half of fuel - we never think twice on filling the car do we ??
8bit said:
What's the RRP like though? Just had a look, don't fancy signing up for yet more spam just to see prices...
Just signed my details away, and got a call within 20mins.......cash price is around the £5-12k mark, depending on number of seats 3-7 and which 'range' (spec) you go for but £6-8k gets you a nice 4-5/6 seat tub.
Higher spec ranges attract longer interest free periods, 3year on the J200 'classic' series, 4 on the J300 'comfort', 5 on the J400 and 500 'Designer/Luxury' spec.
J-225 RRP £6,249 + standard delivery & installation £500 = £6,749 4-5 person
Deposit £500 followed by 36 payments of £159.69 at 0% APR over three years.
Deposit £2000 followed by 36 payments of £118.03 at 0% APR over three years.
J-335 RRP £12,249 + standard delivery & installation £500 = £12,749 5-6 person
Deposit £500 followed by 48 payments of £255.18 at 0% APR over four years.
Jacuzzi Manchester have the follow 'wet' for a try before you buy; J-575, J-475, J-435, J-335, a J-16 swimspa. If not a 200 series.
Claiming £10/12 per week running costs, using it 4-5 times a week during winter, which saves £43/month over £3/day suggested above.
Obviously with a well insulated tub, the less you use it the less it costs, and when shut up the running costs fall significantly.
As said, obviously it is a completely different product/experience to a blow up tub, any there will be other options/makes/models/price points.
All interesting stuff.
Thanks guys. We'd been considering "proper" tubs starting from around the £5k mark but were concerned we'd be out of pocket quite a bit if we ended up not using it. I think it was a suggestion earlier in this very thread that prompted us to buy a Lay-z-spa and use that for a year to see if it was a novelty thing or likely to last.
That year will be up in March, we still use the Lay-z-spa tub pretty much every weekend, although the heater goes off through the week to save energy costs. If the insulation in the Jacuzzi ones really is that good then £120-£140/month instead of £80-ish for electricity alone doesn't seem so bad.
Do these come fully assembled or in some sort of kit form? The other issue we may have with getting something like these is that our garden is enclosed. We can get through the garage but the rear door out to the garden is just a regular-sized sort of door (about 2.2m high I think) which might scupper us.
That year will be up in March, we still use the Lay-z-spa tub pretty much every weekend, although the heater goes off through the week to save energy costs. If the insulation in the Jacuzzi ones really is that good then £120-£140/month instead of £80-ish for electricity alone doesn't seem so bad.
Do these come fully assembled or in some sort of kit form? The other issue we may have with getting something like these is that our garden is enclosed. We can get through the garage but the rear door out to the garden is just a regular-sized sort of door (about 2.2m high I think) which might scupper us.
8bit said:
Thanks guys. We'd been considering "proper" tubs starting from around the £5k mark but were concerned we'd be out of pocket quite a bit if we ended up not using it. I think it was a suggestion earlier in this very thread that prompted us to buy a Lay-z-spa and use that for a year to see if it was a novelty thing or likely to last.
That year will be up in March, we still use the Lay-z-spa tub pretty much every weekend, although the heater goes off through the week to save energy costs. If the insulation in the Jacuzzi ones really is that good then £120-£140/month instead of £80-ish for electricity alone doesn't seem so bad.
Do these come fully assembled or in some sort of kit form? The other issue we may have with getting something like these is that our garden is enclosed. We can get through the garage but the rear door out to the garden is just a regular-sized sort of door (about 2.2m high I think) which might scupper us.
The J-#25 is 193x214x87cm and J#35 214x214x92cm so it is almost like they have designed it to go through a doorway! It arrives in one part, but as we are the corner with good access I don't know any more than that.That year will be up in March, we still use the Lay-z-spa tub pretty much every weekend, although the heater goes off through the week to save energy costs. If the insulation in the Jacuzzi ones really is that good then £120-£140/month instead of £80-ish for electricity alone doesn't seem so bad.
Do these come fully assembled or in some sort of kit form? The other issue we may have with getting something like these is that our garden is enclosed. We can get through the garage but the rear door out to the garden is just a regular-sized sort of door (about 2.2m high I think) which might scupper us.
I did ask about out life, and was told; "one of our spas should last 20 - 25 years" still carrying spares for 30yo models.
The warranty is as follows:
- J200 series is 7 years on the shell structure, 5 years on the shell surface, 2 years on the plumbing, jets , pipes , pumps and electrics
- J-300 series is 10 years on the shell structure, 7 years on the shell surface, 3 years on the plumbing, jets, pipes, pumps, and electrics
- J-400 & J-500 is 10 years on the shell structure, 7 years on the shell surface 4 years on the plumbing, jets , pipes , pumps and electrics
We had a 5k hottub for around 5 years
Wasn’t used much & it ate as much electricity as the rest of the house combined. Doubled the electric bill.
Only around £50 a month for the hottub back then.
Gave it away a couple of years ago, new owner paid for flatbed etc to remove it.
In hindsight it was a waste of money, glad to see the back of it.
The higher energy costs & projected hikes have confirmed that getting rid was the right move. £100/£150 a month going forward ..
Wasn’t used much & it ate as much electricity as the rest of the house combined. Doubled the electric bill.
Only around £50 a month for the hottub back then.
Gave it away a couple of years ago, new owner paid for flatbed etc to remove it.
In hindsight it was a waste of money, glad to see the back of it.
The higher energy costs & projected hikes have confirmed that getting rid was the right move. £100/£150 a month going forward ..
8bit said:
Thanks guys. We'd been considering "proper" tubs starting from around the £5k mark but were concerned we'd be out of pocket quite a bit if we ended up not using it. I think it was a suggestion earlier in this very thread that prompted us to buy a Lay-z-spa and use that for a year to see if it was a novelty thing or likely to last.
That year will be up in March, we still use the Lay-z-spa tub pretty much every weekend, although the heater goes off through the week to save energy costs. If the insulation in the Jacuzzi ones really is that good then £120-£140/month instead of £80-ish for electricity alone doesn't seem so bad.
As above and earlier in the thread - we rented this one for a month. That year will be up in March, we still use the Lay-z-spa tub pretty much every weekend, although the heater goes off through the week to save energy costs. If the insulation in the Jacuzzi ones really is that good then £120-£140/month instead of £80-ish for electricity alone doesn't seem so bad.
It ran off the 13Amp plug, and could not keep up with the heat loss when in use for any length of time. Faff. and average jets.
We replaced with the Jacuzzi as much for the bulletproof warranty and my pal has one recommended the customer service and the endorse of "buy cheap buy twice" etc
This fella is totally different experience, size and heat retention :
But bigger.
The 'real one\ must be a good 8inches higher, but when seen from the underside the top one had naff all insulation. The jacuzzi one, when you remove a side panel, is jammed full of insulation.
8bit said:
Do these come fully assembled or in some sort of kit form? The other issue we may have with getting something like these is that our garden is enclosed. We can get through the garage but the rear door out to the garden is just a regular-sized sort of door (about 2.2m high I think) which might scupper us.
Fully assembled and the Jacuzzi guys come fill it and commission it. Delivered on a trolley on its side. You need to have a 32 Amp connection nearby and a flying armoured cable for them to wire in.Id imagine too big to get through a conventional door.
Sounds a chinook job.
mikeiow said:
It’s the actual “how much does it cost for a gas boiler to heat X litres” I’m really interested in. I get the general principals….maybe I just accept that, empty when not using and fill when we want….
Ours would cost between £15-£20 to heat from cold (1500l) Running in eco mode where it would keep at around 20 degrees cost just over £30 a month
PushedDover said:
Alt view - a proper one from Jacuzzi on 0% is £130 a month. The quality of the unit versus a ‘holiday cottage’ one is likely to be chalk and cheese in terms of jets, features and thermal insulation
Compared to an inflated one - multiply that by 5
Our Jacuzzi has barely affected our electricity bill, the frost or snow remains in situ on the lid such is the insulation.
Barely affected your energy bill? You must use a lot of energy on other things then! Compared to an inflated one - multiply that by 5
Our Jacuzzi has barely affected our electricity bill, the frost or snow remains in situ on the lid such is the insulation.
Unless this is nonsense:
James6112 said:
We had a 5k hottub for around 5 years
Wasn’t used much & it ate as much electricity as the rest of the house combined. Doubled the electric bill.
Wasn’t used much & it ate as much electricity as the rest of the house combined. Doubled the electric bill.
dhutch said:
£3/day is over a grand a year, so if you actually want it for more than a few months lockdown you should seriously think about getting the proper thing.
My point was we don’t want the thing all year! We aren’t paying £90pcm or a grand a year because we only use it from time to time. Daft to compare those: it we used it all the time I’d clearly spend the thousands on a ‘real’ one!
That’s why I was asking about costs for just refilling it, if we used it a couple of weekends in a row but didn’t need it between.
- sigh*
mikeiow said:
PushedDover said:
Alt view - a proper one from Jacuzzi on 0% is £130 a month. The quality of the unit versus a ‘holiday cottage’ one is likely to be chalk and cheese in terms of jets, features and thermal insulation
Compared to an inflated one - multiply that by 5
Our Jacuzzi has barely affected our electricity bill, the frost or snow remains in situ on the lid such is the insulation.
Barely affected your energy bill? You must use a lot of energy on other things then! Compared to an inflated one - multiply that by 5
Our Jacuzzi has barely affected our electricity bill, the frost or snow remains in situ on the lid such is the insulation.
Unless this is nonsense:
James6112 said:
We had a 5k hottub for around 5 years
Wasn’t used much & it ate as much electricity as the rest of the house combined. Doubled the electric bill.
Wasn’t used much & it ate as much electricity as the rest of the house combined. Doubled the electric bill.
dhutch said:
£3/day is over a grand a year, so if you actually want it for more than a few months lockdown you should seriously think about getting the proper thing.
My point was we don’t want the thing all year! We aren’t paying £90pcm or a grand a year because we only use it from time to time. Daft to compare those: it we used it all the time I’d clearly spend the thousands on a ‘real’ one!
That’s why I was asking about costs for just refilling it, if we used it a couple of weekends in a row but didn’t need it between.
- sigh*
But if you know my tubs power burn and my utility bills better than me I do apologise.
bayleaf said:
Genuine question - what's the appeal of sitting in a warm bath of chemicals?
We've had one for many years. We find that wife and I talk to each other rather than staring at a screen in the evenings. We have all our best ideas in discussions in the tub for example we moved to a small holding and have loved it, all from an idea in the tub many years ago.We star gaze from it, stay out in the cold whilst enjoying the warmth. After busy day say woodcutting, it is great for the muscles. And excuse for a bottle of wine, G&T etc.
We love ours although they are costly.
Tom8 said:
bayleaf said:
Genuine question - what's the appeal of sitting in a warm bath of chemicals?
We've had one for many years. We find that wife and I talk to each other rather than staring at a screen in the evenings. We have all our best ideas in discussions in the tub for example we moved to a small holding and have loved it, all from an idea in the tub many years ago.We star gaze from it, stay out in the cold whilst enjoying the warmth. After busy day say woodcutting, it is great for the muscles. And excuse for a bottle of wine, G&T etc.
We love ours although they are costly.
It does get recognised though that we have amazing views and skies, and not overlooked in any way.
And to call it a bath of chemicals is not quite understanding- once you’ve your own Tub and a handle on ensuring you’re clean going in, the chemicals used are minimal.
A rental / commercial will be by contrast a heavily concentrated chem mix IMHO
(Puerile mode - your wife is lovely)
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