Loft conversion woes

[bmwmike]

Hi all

Looking for a bit of guidance please!

Long story short had a loft company in to split up a large bedroom in a dormer bungalow into two bedrooms.

Started in November and was due to be completed by Christmas. Most of the work was complete and kids were in their new rooms for Christmas.

Have since found out that part of the work has weakened the structure of the roof. The loft company have been dragging their heals over snagging and electrical signoff but since a floor bowed I've pushed them to send an SE who confirmed it was structural and they had damaged the roof when they cut a door into the eaves.

Given that they've been slow so far I want to push them to provide a date for completion of the remaining work and the fix for the structural weakness.

I am also going to insist their SE provide a full report on the rest of the roof because they made a lot of changes. Actually only went with them because they agreed the work was structural then they left the builders to it - no SE involvement until I asked why one of the floors had bowed up!

Anyway, if they don't agree to all this I am wondering what else I can do - solicitor?

Any comments appreciated. Very worried about my roof right now.


Thanks
Mike

[Tom_C76]

Contact Building Control to check an application was made for the work and to see what the inspector has seen if they did apply. They should have done. And I'd have been tempted to employ an engineer yourself rather than getting them to do it so the engineers are working for you.

[bmwmike]

Building control are involved already though I only told them about this on Friday when I found out. The SE is "bound" to be independent apparently.

Should I keep BC copied on all emails to the loft company? BC have been fairly useless to date I must say.

I am basically spelling out what I expect the loft company to do.

Edit decided not to copy BC just yet as I know the officer is on holiday. In meantime have spelled out what I expect loft company to do, giving them a deadline of Thursday to respond with a schedule of dates. I also expect their SE to visit within the week.

We shall see!

Edited by bmwmike on Sunday 26th February 23:11

[roofer]

Doesn't sound like a 'Loft Company'

More like a bunch of chancers. Cheapest ?

[bmwmike]

Nope not cheapest.. we had a much cheaper quote from a builder but went with the loft co because of the roof changes and because they have expertise supposedly in this area.

Not had much luck with trades lately. Even had a NICEIC spark who, by his own deacription on the minor works cert, had to borrow a neutral.

[joshcowin]

Yep contact a SE get a report!

Don't copy building control in, just arrange a final appointment with them (sign-off), the BC officer will come out and either pass the work or tell you what is required!

What type of contract did you sign and what level of insurance cover do they have?

[bmwmike]

joshcowin said:

Yep contact a SE get a report!

Don't copy building control in, just arrange a final appointment with them (sign-off), the BC officer will come out and either pass the work or tell you what is required!

What type of contract did you sign and what level of insurance cover do they have?

That's the thing though. BC had already come out to do final inspection and were happy with it all, pending final electric cert.

Contract - don't have it to hand at moment but there is one, original quote states "engineer calculations" and "all works to comply with building control and be certified".

[joshcowin]

bmwmike said:

That's the thing though. BC had already come out to do final inspection and were happy with it all, pending final electric cert.

Contract - don't have it to hand at moment but there is one, original quote states "engineer calculations" and "all works to comply with building control and be certified".

Well at least you have a contract!
Ensure you get engineer calcs, either yourself or from the contractor.
Get the electrician to come over, do you have his number?

You are correct a decent contractor would have completed all this.
I am guessing you are holding final payment? I hope you are.

[bmwmike]

Final payment - hell yes, approx 10% remaining. The SE even suggested (verbally) that the damage is done and whilst there should not be any further movement we won't really know for sure that his proposed fixes resolve it fully until 12 months have past.

[joshcowin]

bmwmike said:

Final payment - hell yes, approx 10% remaining. The SE even suggested (verbally) that the damage is done and whilst there should not be any further movement we won't really know for sure until 12 months have past.

I would imagine if they have the relevant calcs and building control have signed off the structural work there is not a lot you can do. The building company will say they have completed the works as stated by the SE and that building control have agreed these works have been undertaken.

Would your claim be against the SE? If there has been structural issues and the works have been completed following his guidance then the contractor isnt at fault rather the SE got something wrong?

[bmwmike]

The loft company were supposed to be doing all the work. It's not my SE but theirs who came around at my request after the floor bowed. Then I found out all the work had been done without any SE involvement.

Which begs the question what BC were doing? Should they not be asking for structural calculations?

Edited by bmwmike on Monday 27th February 11:35

[joshcowin]

bmwmike said:

The loft company were supposed to be doing all the work. It's not my SE but theirs who came around at my request after the floor bowed. Then I found out all the work had been done without any SE involvement.

Which begs the question what BC were doing? Should they not be asking for structural calculations?

Edited by bmwmike on Monday 27th February 11:35

Yes BC should have calcs and drawings, have you confirmed that the elec certificate is the only item holding up full sign off?

So the loft company employ their own SE, I doubt that, find out which SE they use, do you have his name?

[bmwmike]

Apologies just checked with wife and the SE is not their SE he is independent third party and was brought in to comment on the bowed floor. So not employed by loft company.

BC contact is out of office till Thursday this week but I have an email saying the only thing outstanding is electric signoff.

What a mess.

[Little Lofty]

I guess with this being existing BC maybe haven't gone overboard for new regs and calcs, It just depends on the individual building inspector sometimes. They only come when you ask them, so if you really want to hide something dodgy it's not that difficult really.
I've be just rehashed an old loft that was done about 30 years ago with no planning or building regs. It's was a right old mess, I honestly don't dont how it survived any high winds. The ridge beam was a piece of 9x2 propped by a few random timber posts hidden in the walls, the dormer exterior was clad with plasterboard covered with plastic tongue and groove, nothing was straight, plumb or level Building control wanted calcs for the new steel ridge beam and have classed it as a new loft conversions, he has cut me some slack with regards to insulation levels etc.

[Angrybiker]

bmwmike said:

The loft company were supposed to be doing all the work. It's not my SE but theirs who came around at my request after the floor bowed. Then I found out all the work had been done without any SE involvement.

Which begs the question what BC were doing? Should they not be asking for structural calculations?

Edited by bmwmike on Monday 27th February 11:35

This is where they skimped and where you should always supervise closely. They didn't use an SE and thus built incorrectly. I think you have a case against them - they can't say they built it to standards because they didn't set any! - but your BC hasn't helped. I'm a bit surprised by your BC, they should have been on the case and all over calculations and design before you even started work. And also all over reviewing how it's getting on and potential problems at several stages during the build. Mine were. If they didn't do this then I don't know who you can complain to but it might be an idea. Regardless, starting work before you have a proper structural design is incompetence bordering on gross negligence - what if one of you had fallen through the floor?

When I did my extensions and loft I got my own architect and SE up front and reviewed and understood the design in detail with them before even going to BC - then it's easy, just hand builders the drawings and calcs and tell them to get on with it.

[bmwmike]

Does anyone have any advice for calling breach of contract in these circs? They've done most of the work bar snagging however they have caused a structural issue by cutting a sole plate.

Am considering giving them 2 weeks to resolve this otherwise I'll get someone else in and bill them. Is that the right way to do it?


Thanks

[Spudler]

Polite but firm letter first off.
Should do the trick.
Always got (depending on amount) fast tract to fall back on.

[bmwmike]

So they turned up Thursday to replaster a crack and ended up squirting expanding foam over one of my doors by accident. Promised to turn up next day to finish off making good but didn't show. So one snag item is now two because they need to clean the expanded foam off my door plus the plaster job looks worse than before they started.

It's actually getting funny.

In the meantime the SE turns up to do a report and finds other stuff done wrong which might require significant rework. We've decorated and got it all looking good not to mention carpets etc down.

Have to wait for the full SE report to be sent to loft company and then ask them nicely for a copy (they paid for it). Worst case I'll pay for a copy myself.

Thinking it might be time to get legal.

Edited by bmwmike on Monday 13th March 19:02

[roofer]

bmwmike said:

Thinking it might be time to get legal.

Edited by bmwmike on Monday 13th March 19:02

Correct.

[Qcarchoo]

A friend of mine had a very similar thing happen which has resulted in the complete roof structure having to be replaced.
The first step was to get an independant structural survey.
All legal fees were covered by his home insurance.