knocking a wall out, a steel and is it possible?

[m3jappa]

I shouldn't have to be making this post but due to seriously struggling to get a structural engineer round and waiting for a while i am. I do now have an engineer coming next week but i assume ill have to wait his results for a while longer as well.
I know I'm not going to get exactly what I'm after but it might be interesting to see what people think.

Bear with me while i try and explain.

i want to remove the wall with the patio doors in (pic below to follow)

Behind this wall is a 'porch' of some description. it previously had 3 pillars right at the back but now has 2 and i assume a steel to support the weight of the balcony above it.

the balcony is concrete, approx 200mm thick.

this is sandwiched into the wall above the patio doors. so you have as follows:

wall with doors
3 course brickwork
200mm of concrete floor cantilevered out
top of house.

a couple of builder mates looked and said while they think its fine its definitely more complicated than just chucking a steel in. one even commented that the concrete itself is acting as a lintel in some way as it obviously travels to either side of the wall, both of which are structural walls.

another mate said i may have a problem in that the floor is probably block and beam (80's bovis) and that if the engineer wanted goal posts to hold the steel it might be hard.

my worry is that it might not be possible. the plan is to open this room to the kitchen open the wall to the porch bit, remove conservatory and have doors in that opening where the old pillar was. this would give us a room which is 10.7m x 4.1m so enough for a kitchen, diner lounge. without being able to incorporate the porch into the building id have 9.1m length which i don't feel is enough for what we want.

so any ideas?

bloody pics come out upside down for some reason but you should see what i mean.



this door way was previously open to the porch as were the pillars.



balcony which is above porch

Edited by m3jappa on Tuesday 21st March 19:55

Edited by m3jappa on Tuesday 21st March 19:58

[TA14]

m3jappa said:

another mate said i may have a problem in that the floor is probably block and beam (80's bovis) and that if the engineer wanted goal posts to hold the steel it might be hard.

I would tend to agree with your mate. Whether you need goal posts will depend on the overall stability of the building and how much (if any) of a nib you wish to retain. You would think that a 203UC would kill it so it's possible you just need to sort out the details.

[ozzuk]

I can't help on the loading, but one thought (and it isn't easy to see from your pics/description) but if you are removing what looks like an external door then building regs might have an issue with the construction of the porch as there is now no barrier between it and the main house.

May not be an issue, but might want to check before doing any major works!

[bobtail4x4]

ozzuk said:

I can't help on the loading, but one thought (and it isn't easy to see from your pics/description) but if you are removing what looks like an external door then building regs might have an issue with the construction of the porch as there is now no barrier between it and the main house.

May not be an issue, but might want to check before doing any major works!

this is PH no one seems to care.

[m3jappa]

ozzuk said:

I can't help on the loading, but one thought (and it isn't easy to see from your pics/description) but if you are removing what looks like an external door then building regs might have an issue with the construction of the porch as there is now no barrier between it and the main house.

May not be an issue, but might want to check before doing any major works!

The external door will be moved to the gap between the pillars on the porch iykwim. I assume the only issue would be they may want added insulation, I planned to gun the floor up that the conservatory people must have done, insulate that and worst case may have to use some insulation backed plasterboard on the ceiling (which would be the base of the balcony roof) and also on the external wall.
I hope that's ok any way.....

[ozzuk]

I wouldn't assume its okay, conservatories I believe are usually classed as non-inhabitable, you are changing that by moving the external door to essentially become habitable. Building control will worry about insulation, but also roof construction, security, wall construction, flooring etc. Really is worth checking if you ever want to sell the property or you could be knocking a lot of value off your home instead of adding it - and potentially making it un-mortgageable (worst case).

[m3jappa]

I spoke to someone at building control today and while she did try she possibly wasn't that helpful. She just said it can be done on a building notice and someone will come and inspect and make suggestions once started. My fear is the suggestion they make is to un do it all
She could advise on anything technical so wasn't much help. I'm not sure on how to go about it tbh.

The roof is the concrete roof of the balcony, this could be insulated with insulated plasterboard. The floor will be whatever it has to be. The doors are Ali bi fold doors. Window will be a normal window. Walls are technically the remaining pillar and the remaining house wall.

[anonymous-user]

if you're worried about building control you can hire your own inspector instead of using the council one.

I did that with my loft conversion and it was cheaper and also because I was paying him he was happy to discuss things with my builder before things were done, rather than the council approach of letting you spend all the money and then make you undo it all.

I won't be using a council inspector again ever

[bobtail4x4]

m3jappa said:

I spoke to someone at building control today and while she did try she possibly wasn't that helpful. She just said it can be done on a building notice and someone will come and inspect and make suggestions once started. My fear is the suggestion they make is to un do it all
She could advise on anything technical so wasn't much help. I'm not sure on how to go about it tbh.

The roof is the concrete roof of the balcony, this could be insulated with insulated plasterboard. The floor will be whatever it has to be. The doors are Ali bi fold doors. Window will be a normal window. Walls are technically the remaining pillar and the remaining house wall.

ask them for a pre start visit,

[bobtail4x4]

keirik said:

if you're worried about building control you can hire your own inspector instead of using the council one.

I did that with my loft conversion and it was cheaper and also because I was paying him he was happy to discuss things with my builder before things were done, rather than the council approach of letting you spend all the money and then make you undo it all.

I won't be using a council inspector again ever

I was going to ignore this but...

if your builder needs to ask what to do, you need a better builder, the Approved Inspectors are usually cheaper than the LA as they have part qualified staff, and only do 2 or 3 inspections,
try ringing one for advice in the middle of a job when your crappy builder has bodged something.
yes Im a LA BCO I get calls most days from people who cant contact the AI.
they usually dont use them again,apart from the dodgy ones who want to get things covered quickly.

[Spudler]

bobtail4x4 said:

keirik said:

if you're worried about building control you can hire your own inspector instead of using the council one.

I did that with my loft conversion and it was cheaper and also because I was paying him he was happy to discuss things with my builder before things were done, rather than the council approach of letting you spend all the money and then make you undo it all.

I won't be using a council inspector again ever

I was going to ignore this but...

if your builder needs to ask what to do, you need a better builder, the Approved Inspectors are usually cheaper than the LA as they have part qualified staff, and only do 2 or 3 inspections,
try ringing one for advice in the middle of a job when your crappy builder has bodged something.
yes Im a LA BCO I get calls most days from people who cant contact the AI.
they usually dont use them again,apart from the dodgy ones who want to get things covered quickly.

I'll agree with most of that...apart from the last sentence, utter bks.

[bobtail4x4]

Spudler said:

I'll agree with most of that...apart from the last sentence, utter bks.

only going on what Im told, builder prices for job, is undercut massivly, no way can work be done for the price,
he asks guy who gets job, to be told "no one checks, 125 polystyrene is a third the price of celotex, 100mm of foundation concrete and 50mm oversite who will know?"

[Lesgrandepotato]

We've found local building control to be really helpful and pragmatic about whats to be done - in my experience if they know and trust your builder then its not any hassle.

[Muncher]

Lesgrandepotato said:

We've found local building control to be really helpful and pragmatic about whats to be done - in my experience if they know and trust your builder then its not any hassle.

Building control have been the one department within the council who for me have been helpful, punctual, pragmatic, if only the rest of the council took a leaf out of their book!