End of Tenancy Cleaning Question
Discussion
Philemon said:
Agree with Double six.
We have had tenants who try and fail and it ends up costing them for the oven dishwasher and carpets to be professionally cleaned, afterwards.
One tenant had their Mum come around and spend 2 days cleaning for them. 60 miles drive each way, time and materials etc.
Oven £40
Dishwasher £5
Carpets £60 (fully carpeted 2 bed)
Not expensive to have done.
This only works when you have a good landlord. many are just greedy scum who want to cheat all the time. I attended a check in with friends .I doubt a mouse had even cleaned .We even asked the last tenant if they had cleaned etc .Yet despite this the landlord and agency claimed it was spotless and had been pro cleaned . There was food under the sofas , the fridge had almost 'alive" inside . The bathroom was terrible. It was a nightmare .The people had no choice .They had to move in et c. But we made a video , and they left after 2 years .No issues. They got the full money back for the "false check in " and all their deposit back .We have had tenants who try and fail and it ends up costing them for the oven dishwasher and carpets to be professionally cleaned, afterwards.
One tenant had their Mum come around and spend 2 days cleaning for them. 60 miles drive each way, time and materials etc.
Oven £40
Dishwasher £5
Carpets £60 (fully carpeted 2 bed)
Not expensive to have done.
It was that or they go to court for fraud.
its a 2 sided sword.
There is no way I am having a professional come and clean 1 rug and 1 set of carpet stairs for a house that we are being kicked out of because the landlord has decided to sell up. I take umbrage at the fact we also have to pay £216 for a check out fee for a house that has been sold.
They cant have it both ways.
They cant have it both ways.
FrankAbagnale said:
Generally no wiggle room and hiring a machine yourself will only result in a professional clean coming out of your deposit.
You could ask for proof that the carpets were prof. cleaned prior to you moving in, but the chances are the last outgoing tenant had them done when they left and they'll have documentation proving that.
Either way, if in your contract it states it must be professionally cleaned on the way out, you'll have to get it done regardless of your opinions on quality/state of carpet.
As the poster above says, I would expect the professional clean would cover the whole property in addition to the carpets.
No reason hiring a machine yourself won't satisfy them especially if they were worn and marked to start with they will have a very good case when it came to a dispute. You could ask for proof that the carpets were prof. cleaned prior to you moving in, but the chances are the last outgoing tenant had them done when they left and they'll have documentation proving that.
Either way, if in your contract it states it must be professionally cleaned on the way out, you'll have to get it done regardless of your opinions on quality/state of carpet.
As the poster above says, I would expect the professional clean would cover the whole property in addition to the carpets.
OP - they can insist you clean the carpets but they can't just take £150 out of your deposit if you don't as I'm sure your aware.
TheAngryDog said:
There is no way I am having a professional come and clean 1 rug and 1 set of carpet stairs for a house that we are being kicked out of because the landlord has decided to sell up. I take umbrage at the fact we also have to pay £216 for a check out fee for a house that has been sold.
They cant have it both ways.
100% . if they ask you to leave for THEIR benefit etc .Deposit back, hard luck . No cleaning etc . They cant have it both ways.
many landlords use tenants as a "free upgrade" each time. When you rent a hotel room, are you cleaning it when you leave ? I think the law should be . A tenant when leaving should be asked to provide a landlords reference to anyone wanting to rent it. The landlords want to know everything about a tenant etc . lets see land lords having to show they are paying the mortgage on time and the bank is not thinking of taking the house back in 4 months time etc . Lets see if the landlord is a fixer rather than a runner when it comes to things not working etc . Its all stacked against the tenant these days .
DoubleSix said:
As for the system being stacked in favour of the landlord - that is pure comedy....
I think it works both ways - system is stacked in favour of the landlord for good tenants (who don't have the time to dispute charges, chase repayment of deposits etc.) but likewise bad tenants can leave landlords out of pocket. I have only rented twice so far and left the flats exactly as I found it - still got charged for cleaning and had to chase them for deposits. The first time they faked a cleaning bill for the previous tenant. It doesn't help that some lettings agents make United Airlines look like beacons of success in customer service.brianashley said:
This only works when you have a good landlord. many are just greedy scum who want to cheat all the time. I attended a check in with friends .I doubt a mouse had even cleaned .We even asked the last tenant if they had cleaned etc .Yet despite this the landlord and agency claimed it was spotless and had been pro cleaned . There was food under the sofas , the fridge had almost 'alive" inside . The bathroom was terrible. It was a nightmare .The people had no choice .They had to move in et c. But we made a video , and they left after 2 years .No issues. They got the full money back for the "false check in " and all their deposit back .
It was that or they go to court for fraud.
its a 2 sided sword.
Why did they have no choice? If the house isn't up to scratch don't move in or insist it's cleaned properly on check in. It was that or they go to court for fraud.
its a 2 sided sword.
I've had tenants go over the property with a fine tooth Combe adding loads of little things to the inventory pics it's what everyone should be doing before signing anything.
BoRED S2upid said:
Why did they have no choice? If the house isn't up to scratch don't move in or insist it's cleaned properly on check in.
I've had tenants go over the property with a fine tooth Combe adding loads of little things to the inventory pics it's what everyone should be doing before signing anything.
if you are due to move in with a child etc and you might not have anywhere else to go etc .Why get bullied into having to accept a scum landlord cheating etc .Also some of these "checking agencies are crooked. Estate agents the whole lot. Once they have their fees they dont give a monkey about the tenant . I've had tenants go over the property with a fine tooth Combe adding loads of little things to the inventory pics it's what everyone should be doing before signing anything.
I want to see councils etc and the police coming down a lot harder on bad landlords
I suspect many of the 'tales of woe' from evil greedy landlords are actually just shoddy process being followed on autopilot by agents.
Landlords generally want minimum hassle and I know of none in my circle who can be arsed to skim a few quid off deposits unless genuinely required to cover costs incurred - but hey the real world is far less exciting than the fictitious one full of drama and wrong doing.
Landlords generally want minimum hassle and I know of none in my circle who can be arsed to skim a few quid off deposits unless genuinely required to cover costs incurred - but hey the real world is far less exciting than the fictitious one full of drama and wrong doing.
BoRED S2upid said:
Why did they have no choice? If the house isn't up to scratch don't move in or insist it's cleaned properly on check in.
I've had tenants go over the property with a fine tooth Combe adding loads of little things to the inventory pics it's what everyone should be doing before signing anything.
Exactly, but don't go pointing out reality - it's inconvenient when you're on a soapbox having a big whine.I've had tenants go over the property with a fine tooth Combe adding loads of little things to the inventory pics it's what everyone should be doing before signing anything.
Like you I go through check in person with my tenants and am very happy to make note of every scuff or scrape. Each page of my extensive inventory is initialled... it's a non issue.
AFAIK the TDS is pretty cut and dry on disputes.
Should a dispute arise, If a landlord or agent can't provide an independent check in report that shows a professional clean then they will nearly always find in favour of the tenant.
So, if you move in to a property and feel it is not in good order and are being penalised on the way out, go to the TDS. Or, if you disagree with the check in report when you move in, question it immediately.
Don't move in, not question the check in report, moan when check out comes and not go to TDS.
I am sure there are exceptions, but in the vast vast majority of cases I have found the TDS to be pretty reasonable, if anything more in favour of the tenant.
Also, an agent does not want disputes over deposits. They make no money from disputes, there is no margin. The agent takes instruction from the landlord on how they want to deal with any cleaning issues following the check out report. An agent would much rather mediate and get the file closed at the end of the tenancy than have the admin drag on.
Should a dispute arise, If a landlord or agent can't provide an independent check in report that shows a professional clean then they will nearly always find in favour of the tenant.
So, if you move in to a property and feel it is not in good order and are being penalised on the way out, go to the TDS. Or, if you disagree with the check in report when you move in, question it immediately.
Don't move in, not question the check in report, moan when check out comes and not go to TDS.
I am sure there are exceptions, but in the vast vast majority of cases I have found the TDS to be pretty reasonable, if anything more in favour of the tenant.
Also, an agent does not want disputes over deposits. They make no money from disputes, there is no margin. The agent takes instruction from the landlord on how they want to deal with any cleaning issues following the check out report. An agent would much rather mediate and get the file closed at the end of the tenancy than have the admin drag on.
Edited by FrankAbagnale on Wednesday 26th April 09:21
FrankAbagnale said:
AFAIK the TDS is pretty cut and dry on disputes.
Should a dispute arise, If a landlord or agent can't provide an independent check in report that shows a professional clean then they will nearly always find in favour of the tenant.
So, if you move in to a property and feel it is not in good order and are being penalised on the way out, go to the TDS. Or, if you disagree with the check in report when you move in, question it immediately.
Don't move in, not question the check in report, moan when check out comes and not go to TDS.
I am sure there are exceptions, but in the vast vast majority of cases I have found the TDS to be pretty reasonable, if anything more in favour of the tenant.
TDS is a good system . Sometimes it can work against a landlord who has been nothing but good. But as a rule it protects the tenant.Should a dispute arise, If a landlord or agent can't provide an independent check in report that shows a professional clean then they will nearly always find in favour of the tenant.
So, if you move in to a property and feel it is not in good order and are being penalised on the way out, go to the TDS. Or, if you disagree with the check in report when you move in, question it immediately.
Don't move in, not question the check in report, moan when check out comes and not go to TDS.
I am sure there are exceptions, but in the vast vast majority of cases I have found the TDS to be pretty reasonable, if anything more in favour of the tenant.
DoubleSix said:
Thank god I don't have tenants like some of the deluded halfwits on here!
I have no issue with our land lord. I do have issue with the estate agency, and those will be the ones imposing the charges on us. If we were moving out on our own accord and a new tenant was moving in then it would be a different story. The last house I rented before this one I lived in for 18 months. I redecorated the house during the week I moved out and cleaned it to within an inch of its life. The landlord commented that out of all of the houses he has let, this was by far the best condition one he had been given back. Deposit instantly returned.Next time you call me a deluded halfwit, think before you type.
TheAngryDog said:
DoubleSix said:
Thank god I don't have tenants like some of the deluded halfwits on here!
I have no issue with our land lord. I do have issue with the estate agency, and those will be the ones imposing the charges on us. If we were moving out on our own accord and a new tenant was moving in then it would be a different story. The last house I rented before this one I lived in for 18 months. I redecorated the house during the week I moved out and cleaned it to within an inch of its life. The landlord commented that out of all of the houses he has let, this was by far the best condition one he had been given back. Deposit instantly returned.Next time you call me a deluded halfwit, think before you type.
- The agent will call the landlord and explain that you don't want to professional clean
- The landlord will respond saying, "not a problem" or "No, I insist on the clean".
- The agent will call you and relay the landlords response.
- If you dont feel that there was a comprehensive check in which shows proof of a professional clean, say you are happy to go to the TDS over the matter should there be any deduction of deposit.
- The agent will call the landlord and say "the tenant wants to go to TDS if we charge for a clean, in our opinion we will/wont win. What would you like to do?"
- The landlord will respond to the agent
- The agent will let you know the response
If they don't charge you for a clean, great.
If they do charge you, and you are in the right, the TDS will rule in your favour. If you are in the wrong, the deductions will stand.
The agent aren't making the choice on whether to impose the charges. They are taking instruction from the landlord following the independent check in report which will detail "wear and tear" or "tenant responsibility".
A few remarks based on comments here:
(1) I'm both a landlord and a tenant. I let out two properties of my own, and rent a third in another area. There are good and bad tenants, just as there are good and bad landlords, and there are also good and bad agents.... although in my experience it is the agent who takes the mick more than the landlord who just wants the property maintained and to have the longest-term tenants possible. I've stopped using an agent for my own properties after being misled about the condition of the property and maintenance being undertaken. On the other side, as a tenant, I've been messed around with lettings agents who have almost no incentive to keep a regular tenant when they know the property can be filled again in a heartbeat and the fresh tenants will be paying additional fees that a remaining tenant would not be. DoubleSix mentions doing the check-in with his tenants, as I do as well, but when renting through an agent you are given the keys and asked to return the inventory within 2 weeks. They do not attend the property with you.
(2) We signed the contract around 6 weeks before moving in, and it was while the previous tenants were still living in the property. When we moved in we completed the inventory and noted any damage or marks before returning it. At this point the memory of signing a clause stating "all carpets to be professionally cleaned at end of tenancy" was a distant memory and we had trust that the inventory was the guide to be used when determining the condition of the property on entry and exit. The property was clean, but there were marks on the carpets as noted below.
(3) The carpets are no more marked or stained beyond reasonable wear than they were on arrival. While we could spend the £180 I've been quoted for carpet cleaning to be completed, my issue is that I do not believe they were done before we moved in, nor that it should be required as the carpets are no dirtier than they were at the time we moved in beyond what is reasonable. We have not stained or left marks. If this clause is a 'standard' clause, and the previous tenants did not have the carpets cleaned, then I do not trust that the agent/landlord will arrange for the carpets to be cleaned this time either and will simply pocket the deduction from our deposit. I have no objection to leaving a property clean and in good repair - This is what we would do at any rate, and would not quibble over deductions for damage (such as where we have put a mirror on the wall in the bedroom). This is about being charged for what is or is not reasonable.
(4) A £180 bill is neither here nor there - This is not about the cost, but the principle, and also the effort or arranging a cleaner, being present at the property for it, and spending the money before our deposit is returned. I would sooner forward the quote to the agent and say "We agree to this amount being deducted for cleaning to be arranged by you/the landlord" - But I doubt they would accept this.
(5) Why would a tenant have no choice but to move in? Suppose in our example that 6 weeks after viewing the property for the first time and signing the contract that we receive the keys and rock up to find the place in a mess and poor state of repair. We've already given notice on our current home and will be returning the keys a few days later. We've signed a 6-month tenancy for this new place, and have used all our savings for the deposit and moving costs. Unless you have a friend or family member who is willing to let you stay, you have no choice. And for the huge numbers of people less fortunate than us here, there are no extra savings to pay for a hotel room, or do anything but suck it up and move in.
(6) I don't want to get to TDS dispute stage. I'd rather have a reasonable conversation with the agent and say "Look, it clearly wasn't professionally cleaned when we moved in, so why are you asking us now? Is there any damage beyond what was there on arrival which you wish us to remove?" but at this point I fear they will just say this is irrelevant because the contract states it must be "professionally cleaned". (The contract which we paid over £150 to sign initially, and then another £72 each year, and which is a generic template mentioning grass which we don't have (we don't even have a balcony), furniture not provided (it's unfurnished) and many other items not applicable to the property... but this is beside the point.)
(1) I'm both a landlord and a tenant. I let out two properties of my own, and rent a third in another area. There are good and bad tenants, just as there are good and bad landlords, and there are also good and bad agents.... although in my experience it is the agent who takes the mick more than the landlord who just wants the property maintained and to have the longest-term tenants possible. I've stopped using an agent for my own properties after being misled about the condition of the property and maintenance being undertaken. On the other side, as a tenant, I've been messed around with lettings agents who have almost no incentive to keep a regular tenant when they know the property can be filled again in a heartbeat and the fresh tenants will be paying additional fees that a remaining tenant would not be. DoubleSix mentions doing the check-in with his tenants, as I do as well, but when renting through an agent you are given the keys and asked to return the inventory within 2 weeks. They do not attend the property with you.
(2) We signed the contract around 6 weeks before moving in, and it was while the previous tenants were still living in the property. When we moved in we completed the inventory and noted any damage or marks before returning it. At this point the memory of signing a clause stating "all carpets to be professionally cleaned at end of tenancy" was a distant memory and we had trust that the inventory was the guide to be used when determining the condition of the property on entry and exit. The property was clean, but there were marks on the carpets as noted below.
(3) The carpets are no more marked or stained beyond reasonable wear than they were on arrival. While we could spend the £180 I've been quoted for carpet cleaning to be completed, my issue is that I do not believe they were done before we moved in, nor that it should be required as the carpets are no dirtier than they were at the time we moved in beyond what is reasonable. We have not stained or left marks. If this clause is a 'standard' clause, and the previous tenants did not have the carpets cleaned, then I do not trust that the agent/landlord will arrange for the carpets to be cleaned this time either and will simply pocket the deduction from our deposit. I have no objection to leaving a property clean and in good repair - This is what we would do at any rate, and would not quibble over deductions for damage (such as where we have put a mirror on the wall in the bedroom). This is about being charged for what is or is not reasonable.
(4) A £180 bill is neither here nor there - This is not about the cost, but the principle, and also the effort or arranging a cleaner, being present at the property for it, and spending the money before our deposit is returned. I would sooner forward the quote to the agent and say "We agree to this amount being deducted for cleaning to be arranged by you/the landlord" - But I doubt they would accept this.
(5) Why would a tenant have no choice but to move in? Suppose in our example that 6 weeks after viewing the property for the first time and signing the contract that we receive the keys and rock up to find the place in a mess and poor state of repair. We've already given notice on our current home and will be returning the keys a few days later. We've signed a 6-month tenancy for this new place, and have used all our savings for the deposit and moving costs. Unless you have a friend or family member who is willing to let you stay, you have no choice. And for the huge numbers of people less fortunate than us here, there are no extra savings to pay for a hotel room, or do anything but suck it up and move in.
(6) I don't want to get to TDS dispute stage. I'd rather have a reasonable conversation with the agent and say "Look, it clearly wasn't professionally cleaned when we moved in, so why are you asking us now? Is there any damage beyond what was there on arrival which you wish us to remove?" but at this point I fear they will just say this is irrelevant because the contract states it must be "professionally cleaned". (The contract which we paid over £150 to sign initially, and then another £72 each year, and which is a generic template mentioning grass which we don't have (we don't even have a balcony), furniture not provided (it's unfurnished) and many other items not applicable to the property... but this is beside the point.)
With all the above said by all posters, it is worth checking the deposit has been registered with the TDS first!
https://www.tenancydepositscheme.com/check-the-pro...
https://www.tenancydepositscheme.com/check-the-pro...
Guys, professional carpet cleaning has little to do with removing stains etc which you noted when going through your inventory on check in, right?
It's a hygiene consideration. The steam kills any potential bugs and nasties that the previous tenant may not have addressed.
All this talk of marks and stains is covered by the inventory.
It's a hygiene consideration. The steam kills any potential bugs and nasties that the previous tenant may not have addressed.
All this talk of marks and stains is covered by the inventory.
When I vacated my last rented property I found out through the letting agent which was their 'recommended' cleaning company and used that.
£250 later they'd left the hot water plus loads of lights on, and as it so happened I could have done a better job myself, but at least I had that magic receipt.
£250 later they'd left the hot water plus loads of lights on, and as it so happened I could have done a better job myself, but at least I had that magic receipt.
brianashley said:
TheAngryDog said:
There is no way I am having a professional come and clean 1 rug and 1 set of carpet stairs for a house that we are being kicked out of because the landlord has decided to sell up. I take umbrage at the fact we also have to pay £216 for a check out fee for a house that has been sold.
They cant have it both ways.
100% . if they ask you to leave for THEIR benefit etc .Deposit back, hard luck . No cleaning etc. They cant have it both ways.
Are you pair actually for real? What is the "both ways" that is being mentioned? Both the tenant and the landlord have signed a contract, so both need to stick to whatever has been agreed. What difference does it make to the current tenant/contract if the house is being either A) Sold B) Re-rented C) Used as a swinging venue or any other purpose?
If the landlord suddenly said... "Oh, i've noticed that you're buying your next property instead of renting, in that case i'm gonna charge you an extra hundred quid" then you'd certainly think that it's not fair. What happens to a property after a tenant leaves is absolutely nothing to do with the current tenants obligations.
You do know that the buyers of the house will have an agreement that the house is to be in a certain condition?
DoubleSix has rightly pointed out it's also the hygiene factor. If everyone could do a carpet clean to professional standards for 1/4 of the cost, then there's be no professional carpet cleaners!
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