When did gardeners get so blooming ;-) expensive???
Discussion
shedweller said:
May ask what happened to the last "set" of £10phr gardeners you had???
Were they... Messy,unreliable,unskilled,rough thickos........ Cheap???
No, they were fine (the one was a bit lazy and spent a bit of time in the van, but not disastrous) they were son and father in law and as a family unit they took over a pub. The bloke before them was really good but went and worked full time for the council. Were they... Messy,unreliable,unskilled,rough thickos........ Cheap???
They've always been around the same money around here but rates seem to have gone into orbit recently.
I find the references to my house a bit amusing because that should make no difference to the price of the job nor my ability to pay. But it does. We notice a distinct uplift in price for anything once they come round so that is why I always get an indication of price in advance for anything to set the datum.
Anyway, I've got a chap starting on Monday via the job centre for £10/hr. I'll see how he goes
LordGrover said:
What do they do for work/money in the depths of Winter?
My gardeners take the winter off and go on holiday for some winter sun. They are a husband and wife, and work through the rest of the year.Oh, and I pay £80 per month, that's for 2 people doing 2 hrs every 2 weeks, so paying £10 per person per hour.
Edited by ladderino on Saturday 20th May 00:08
citizensm1th said:
kurt535 said:
shedweller said:
To describe gardening as unskilled is incredibly offensive to me, you don’t want a gardener you want a slash and burn artist at 10phr operating out the back of a car with a crappy mower from screwfix….. Who will muck you about at every opportunity so you can come back on here and complain about “trades” all being s
t.
I am a professional gardener and I run a gardening business that employs 3 other guys 12 months of the year.
2 vehicles - with everyone insured
12k value in tools on each vehicle daily in normal use.
Uniform
Annual training (first aid spraying etc etc)
Premises
Waste carriers tickets
Waste disposal costs
Equipment repair and purchase 6k pa
Fuel 150+pw
Employment costs
And then I need to pay wages & holiday… How much is reasonable to pay someone with a degree who turns up every day, works hard and has kids/mortgage etc??? - Good trustworthy hardworking and knowledgeable guys are like rocking horse st - Something you will find out for yourself shopping at the bottom of the market.
In rural Devon I charge £25phr if its just a couple of hours due to travelling time etc, regular customers (weekly) of more than 4hrs per visit are charged at £22phr inclusive of waste disposal (maintenance)
The people we work for range from Doris who wants 2hrs a fortnight in her bungalow, up to individuals who spend 20k a year on garden maintenance.
We are busy…… If you want 2hrs of my time it will be mid September.
Full support from me Shed. There can be some very narrow minded people on here.....t.I am a professional gardener and I run a gardening business that employs 3 other guys 12 months of the year.
2 vehicles - with everyone insured
12k value in tools on each vehicle daily in normal use.
Uniform
Annual training (first aid spraying etc etc)
Premises
Waste carriers tickets
Waste disposal costs
Equipment repair and purchase 6k pa
Fuel 150+pw
Employment costs
And then I need to pay wages & holiday… How much is reasonable to pay someone with a degree who turns up every day, works hard and has kids/mortgage etc??? - Good trustworthy hardworking and knowledgeable guys are like rocking horse s
t - Something you will find out for yourself shopping at the bottom of the market. In rural Devon I charge £25phr if its just a couple of hours due to travelling time etc, regular customers (weekly) of more than 4hrs per visit are charged at £22phr inclusive of waste disposal (maintenance)
The people we work for range from Doris who wants 2hrs a fortnight in her bungalow, up to individuals who spend 20k a year on garden maintenance.
We are busy…… If you want 2hrs of my time it will be mid September.
My wife works in a nursery. You cannot work there without qualifications (at least a years training), and it pays minimum wage.
If you just want some weeding and grass mowing there is very little skill involved and I would think it's also minimum wage job.
If you want an actual gardener who knows their trade then it's going to be more expensive.
It's no different than say someone working in McD's Vs a proper chef.
A lot of people (like me) just need the McD's version to do the basics. In my area that will cost you £15ph which seems to be a lot for pushing a mower over grass and pulling a few weeds.
If I wanted landscaping and plant selection etc then I would expect to pay way more per hour.
98elise said:
My wife works in a nursery. You cannot work there without qualifications (at least a years training), and it pays minimum wage.
If you just want some weeding and grass mowing there is very little skill involved and I would think it's also minimum wage job.
A lot of people (like me) just need the McD's version to do the basics. In my area that will cost you £15ph which seems to be a lot for pushing a mower over grass and pulling a few weeds.
^^^This If you just want some weeding and grass mowing there is very little skill involved and I would think it's also minimum wage job.
A lot of people (like me) just need the McD's version to do the basics. In my area that will cost you £15ph which seems to be a lot for pushing a mower over grass and pulling a few weeds.
I really can't see why the OP is getting such a hard time.
As above my wife decided to leave her Managers job and become a Teaching Assistant - 2 yrs of NO money whilst training and now is on the minimum wage - and she's assessing / teaching children.
My parents found their last gardener shortly after moving in, he had a number of regular clients on a fortnightly rota, and my parents initially had him 1 day a fortnight 12 months of the year. He wasn't qualified but had been doing the job for years so plenty of experience. He worked bank holidays except Christmas and each client paid a share of them so my parents paid 1/10th and of course he got his daily rate from whoever he was working at that day. He took 2 weeks holiday a year and again was paid in proportion by his clients. If it rained so hard on your day in the summer he couldn't work he would make up hours at the weekend, if it rained in the winter he did DIY chores indoors. Parents supplied him with tea coffee and cake. He didnt drive so came by bicycle, and used my parents tools
Roll on 40 years, my parents were retired and still had Jim, who was now in his 80's. They used to go and pick him up, still give him tea coffee and cake, but had added lunch too. Large parts of the day were spent chatting, and after lunch they gave him a lift home. He still got paid for a full day! In the meantime they had also employed a Polish lady to come once a week! Jim has now passed away but their view was that he had served them well in his younger days, he hadn't charged them the earth, and they owed him a duty of care in his older years. A number of his other clients did a similar thing.
The Polish lady gets paid on a similar basis so comes 52 weeks a year gets paid holidays etc, if there are heavy tasks, she brings along her husband to assist who also gets paid. I will have to find out how much she gets paid, I bet its a lot more than £10 an hour and probably in the region of £20
Roll on 40 years, my parents were retired and still had Jim, who was now in his 80's. They used to go and pick him up, still give him tea coffee and cake, but had added lunch too. Large parts of the day were spent chatting, and after lunch they gave him a lift home. He still got paid for a full day! In the meantime they had also employed a Polish lady to come once a week! Jim has now passed away but their view was that he had served them well in his younger days, he hadn't charged them the earth, and they owed him a duty of care in his older years. A number of his other clients did a similar thing.
The Polish lady gets paid on a similar basis so comes 52 weeks a year gets paid holidays etc, if there are heavy tasks, she brings along her husband to assist who also gets paid. I will have to find out how much she gets paid, I bet its a lot more than £10 an hour and probably in the region of £20
I've not had a gardener for 4 yrs now, he used to charge £12 ph IIRC.
Nice bloke, who'd turn his hand to most things, fencing and hard landscaping during quiet times. A horticulturist he was not, he had his boys own book of plants, but much more comfortable mowing, weeding, cutting back with the odd bit of chainsaw action.
He was easing himself into retirement so he'd pick and choose who he worked for, as clients left they weren't replaced.
Proper PHer with a Transit and a Range Rover
Nice bloke, who'd turn his hand to most things, fencing and hard landscaping during quiet times. A horticulturist he was not, he had his boys own book of plants, but much more comfortable mowing, weeding, cutting back with the odd bit of chainsaw action.
He was easing himself into retirement so he'd pick and choose who he worked for, as clients left they weren't replaced.
Proper PHer with a Transit and a Range Rover
A real gardener - who knows all about ornamentals, veg, top and soft fruit, pests and diseases, how to prune etc - is worth £25ph. But if you just want someone to cut the grass and weed the beds, £10 is fine. It's unskilled labour and an ideal introduction to the workplace for youngsters. The idea that a mere grass cutter should earn £40Kpa is riduclous, sorry!
To those comparing a £15 per hour gardener to a £7.20 minimum wage employee: How much do you think it costs an Employer to employ that minimum-wage person ? Averaged over a year, I earn less than minimum wage for a job that is much harder than serving in a fast food outlet. I don't get paid for holidays, sickness or when the weather is bad.
Most gardeners don't earn that rate for 40 hours a week, 52 weeks of the year; to equate that £15 hourly rate with a £30K yearly salary is ridiculous. E.g., Many years ago I bought a £14000 car, assuming a 20% mark-up, that salesman is earning £2800 an hour. Nice work if you can get it !
If you want your gardener to earn only the minimum wage then the simple solution is to give them an employment contract and pay for: Employer's NI; 25 days paid annual leave; sickness cover; insurance; vehicle costs; tools and maintenance; fuel and consumables. I can guarantee it will cost you at least £15 an hour.
Most gardeners don't earn that rate for 40 hours a week, 52 weeks of the year; to equate that £15 hourly rate with a £30K yearly salary is ridiculous. E.g., Many years ago I bought a £14000 car, assuming a 20% mark-up, that salesman is earning £2800 an hour. Nice work if you can get it !
If you want your gardener to earn only the minimum wage then the simple solution is to give them an employment contract and pay for: Employer's NI; 25 days paid annual leave; sickness cover; insurance; vehicle costs; tools and maintenance; fuel and consumables. I can guarantee it will cost you at least £15 an hour.
Edited by lunarscope on Saturday 20th May 11:20
lunarscope said:
To those comparing a £15 per hour gardener to a £7.20 minimum wage employee: How much do you think it costs an Employer to employ that minimum-wage person ? Averaged over a year, I earn less than minimum wage for a job that is much harder than serving in a fast food outlet. I don't get paid for holidays, sickness or when the weather is bad.
Most gardeners don't earn that rate for 40 hours a week, 52 weeks of the year; to equate that £15 hourly rate with a £30K yearly salary is ridiculous. E.g., Many years ago I bought a £14000 car, assuming a 20% mark-up, that salesman is earning £2800 an hour. Nice work if you can get it !
If you want your gardener to earn only the minimum wage then the simple solution is to give them an employment contract and pay for: Employer's NI; 25 days paid annual leave; sickness cover; insurance; vehicle costs; tools and maintenance; fuel and consumables. I can guarantee it will cost you at least £15 an hour.
NI on a full week at minimum wage is £16. Stat illness is £50 odd a week if needed. 12% in lieu of holidays etc. Their vehicle is their own personal problem and allows you to be available for work in the first place so shouldn't be included in the rate. So no, the on-costs for someone doing 4 hours per week on an employed basis would be tiny. Approx £8/hr all in on a pro rata basisMost gardeners don't earn that rate for 40 hours a week, 52 weeks of the year; to equate that £15 hourly rate with a £30K yearly salary is ridiculous. E.g., Many years ago I bought a £14000 car, assuming a 20% mark-up, that salesman is earning £2800 an hour. Nice work if you can get it !
If you want your gardener to earn only the minimum wage then the simple solution is to give them an employment contract and pay for: Employer's NI; 25 days paid annual leave; sickness cover; insurance; vehicle costs; tools and maintenance; fuel and consumables. I can guarantee it will cost you at least £15 an hour.
Edited by lunarscope on Saturday 20th May 11:20
My two favourites in one topic, menial seeming jobs can be done just as well by morons and a contractors charge is his wage.
Like others have pretty much said it doesnt matter if its bin collecting or brain surgery you can do a good job or a bad one and a good jobs worth paying more for and often cheaper in the long run.
Some of the "oh thats menial, employ an idiot" I get to see.. I could write a godddam book.
Like others have pretty much said it doesnt matter if its bin collecting or brain surgery you can do a good job or a bad one and a good jobs worth paying more for and often cheaper in the long run.
Some of the "oh thats menial, employ an idiot" I get to see.. I could write a godddam book.
BoRED S2upid said:
Plate spinner said:
Child labour is the answer. You're own children, obviously.
As soon as little BS2 is old enough he will pop round. He loves helping me in the garden although he needs a bit more tuition as to what's a weed he's got lawn mowing sorted. £10 an hour would be more than enough for him a little extra pocket money. Greg_D said:
NI on a full week at minimum wage is £16. Stat illness is £50 odd a week if needed. 12% in lieu of holidays etc. Their vehicle is their own personal problem and allows you to be available for work in the first place so shouldn't be included in the rate. So no, the on-costs for someone doing 4 hours per week on an employed basis would be tiny. Approx £8/hr all in on a pro rata basis
How does he get his tools to and from jobs? A number of contributors seem hellbent on making this about my ability to pay.
that is completely missing the point as far as I'm concerned it is about the correct rate for the job. If I earned a lot less, would it change the conversation?
if I was to take the same person to one of my building sites And get him to clear up for the day would I still be expected to pay £25 per hour?
what about if they came in the house and cleaned up as my cleaner does, would that also be £25 an hour?
what about if the same person was to go and look after the horses would that also be £25 an hour? of course it wouldn't..... but we would be talking about the same person with the same overheads, the same van. nothing has changed it is all about basic labour and basic labour has a set cost and it's not £25 an hour. To get back to the original question, what suddenly makes gardeners worth 3 times the wages of a labourer, a groom or a cleaning lady. They all work hard, run vehicles and have insurances and overheads to cover.
I would be thrilled to take home the same percentage of turnover as a gardener.
Ps for all the social justice warrior contributors, there still isn't anyone who has contributed to this thread that has admitted to paying these prices so my original observation that they are expensive seems pretty well founded.
that is completely missing the point as far as I'm concerned it is about the correct rate for the job. If I earned a lot less, would it change the conversation?
if I was to take the same person to one of my building sites And get him to clear up for the day would I still be expected to pay £25 per hour?
what about if they came in the house and cleaned up as my cleaner does, would that also be £25 an hour?
what about if the same person was to go and look after the horses would that also be £25 an hour? of course it wouldn't..... but we would be talking about the same person with the same overheads, the same van. nothing has changed it is all about basic labour and basic labour has a set cost and it's not £25 an hour. To get back to the original question, what suddenly makes gardeners worth 3 times the wages of a labourer, a groom or a cleaning lady. They all work hard, run vehicles and have insurances and overheads to cover.
I would be thrilled to take home the same percentage of turnover as a gardener.
Ps for all the social justice warrior contributors, there still isn't anyone who has contributed to this thread that has admitted to paying these prices so my original observation that they are expensive seems pretty well founded.
Greg_D said:
A number of contributors seem hellbent on making this about my ability to pay.
that is completely missing the point as far as I'm concerned it is about the correct rate for the job. If I earned a lot less, would it change the conversation?
if I was to take the same person to one of my building sites And get him to clear up for the day would I still be expected to pay £25 per hour?
what about if they came in the house and cleaned up as my cleaner does, would that also be £25 an hour?
what about if the same person was to go and look after the horses would that also be £25 an hour? of course it wouldn't..... but we would be talking about the same person with the same overheads, the same van. nothing has changed it is all about basic labour and basic labour has a set cost and it's not £25 an hour. To get back to the original question, what suddenly makes gardeners worth 3 times the wages of a labourer, a groom or a cleaning lady. They all work hard, run vehicles and have insurances and overheads to cover.
I would be thrilled to take home the same percentage of turnover as a gardener.
Ps for all the social justice warrior contributors, there still isn't anyone who has contributed to this thread that has admitted to paying these prices so my original observation that they are expensive seems pretty well founded.
Have you heard of supply and demand? that is completely missing the point as far as I'm concerned it is about the correct rate for the job. If I earned a lot less, would it change the conversation?
if I was to take the same person to one of my building sites And get him to clear up for the day would I still be expected to pay £25 per hour?
what about if they came in the house and cleaned up as my cleaner does, would that also be £25 an hour?
what about if the same person was to go and look after the horses would that also be £25 an hour? of course it wouldn't..... but we would be talking about the same person with the same overheads, the same van. nothing has changed it is all about basic labour and basic labour has a set cost and it's not £25 an hour. To get back to the original question, what suddenly makes gardeners worth 3 times the wages of a labourer, a groom or a cleaning lady. They all work hard, run vehicles and have insurances and overheads to cover.
I would be thrilled to take home the same percentage of turnover as a gardener.
Ps for all the social justice warrior contributors, there still isn't anyone who has contributed to this thread that has admitted to paying these prices so my original observation that they are expensive seems pretty well founded.
If the market rate for a gardener is £25/hr, then that's the rate you have to pay. The going rate for a international footballer in the Premier League is over £250,000/wk. They could get by on £26,000/yr, but that's not the going rate.
Greg_D said:
A number of contributors seem hellbent on making this about my ability to pay.
that is completely missing the point as far as I'm concerned it is about the correct rate for the job. If I earned a lot less, would it change the conversation?
if I was to take the same person to one of my building sites And get him to clear up for the day would I still be expected to pay £25 per hour?
what about if they came in the house and cleaned up as my cleaner does, would that also be £25 an hour?
what about if the same person was to go and look after the horses would that also be £25 an hour? of course it wouldn't..... but we would be talking about the same person with the same overheads, the same van. nothing has changed it is all about basic labour and basic labour has a set cost and it's not £25 an hour. To get back to the original question, what suddenly makes gardeners worth 3 times the wages of a labourer, a groom or a cleaning lady. They all work hard, run vehicles and have insurances and overheads to cover.
I would be thrilled to take home the same percentage of turnover as a gardener.
Ps for all the social justice warrior contributors, there still isn't anyone who has contributed to this thread that has admitted to paying these prices so my original observation that they are expensive seems pretty well founded.
All the other roles quoted are year round ones and not seasonal. Are you looking for your gardener for the same number of hours every week 52 weeks a year or are you looking for someone to cut the grass for a couple of hours the 9 months it grows?that is completely missing the point as far as I'm concerned it is about the correct rate for the job. If I earned a lot less, would it change the conversation?
if I was to take the same person to one of my building sites And get him to clear up for the day would I still be expected to pay £25 per hour?
what about if they came in the house and cleaned up as my cleaner does, would that also be £25 an hour?
what about if the same person was to go and look after the horses would that also be £25 an hour? of course it wouldn't..... but we would be talking about the same person with the same overheads, the same van. nothing has changed it is all about basic labour and basic labour has a set cost and it's not £25 an hour. To get back to the original question, what suddenly makes gardeners worth 3 times the wages of a labourer, a groom or a cleaning lady. They all work hard, run vehicles and have insurances and overheads to cover.
I would be thrilled to take home the same percentage of turnover as a gardener.
Ps for all the social justice warrior contributors, there still isn't anyone who has contributed to this thread that has admitted to paying these prices so my original observation that they are expensive seems pretty well founded.
My own garden is a disgrace, I'm no gardener (nor do I have one), yet I work for a gardening company - in the office. We're very much at the 'premium' end of the market and this is reflected by the staff we employ and the gardens we maintain. We also do one-off garden blitzes and the such, but ideally converting most of these into regular contracts. For most customers, it's an agreed number of visits (more during peak season) with cost of this split over the entire year.
With 200+ gardens on regular maintenance contracts, plus corporate and local authority accounts, the work behind the scenes is significant (although the guys out in all weathers think I sit and play Tetris all day).
The same customers who'd be inclined to moan about prices (and all of a certain wealth) are the same customers that moan if the office isn't manned all day every day.
With 200+ gardens on regular maintenance contracts, plus corporate and local authority accounts, the work behind the scenes is significant (although the guys out in all weathers think I sit and play Tetris all day).
The same customers who'd be inclined to moan about prices (and all of a certain wealth) are the same customers that moan if the office isn't manned all day every day.
shedweller said:
To describe gardening as unskilled is incredibly offensive to me, you don’t want a gardener you want a slash and burn artist at 10phr operating out the back of a car with a crappy mower from screwfix….. Who will muck you about at every opportunity so you can come back on here and complain about “trades” all being st.
I am a professional gardener and I run a gardening business that employs 3 other guys 12 months of the year.
2 vehicles - with everyone insured
12k value in tools on each vehicle daily in normal use.
Uniform
Annual training (first aid spraying etc etc)
Premises
Waste carriers tickets
Waste disposal costs
Equipment repair and purchase 6k pa
Fuel 150+pw
Employment costs
And then I need to pay wages & holiday… How much is reasonable to pay someone with a degree who turns up every day, works hard and has kids/mortgage etc??? - Good trustworthy hardworking and knowledgeable guys are like rocking horse st - Something you will find out for yourself shopping at the bottom of the market.
In rural Devon I charge £25phr if its just a couple of hours due to travelling time etc, regular customers (weekly) of more than 4hrs per visit are charged at £22phr inclusive of waste disposal (maintenance)
The people we work for range from Doris who wants 2hrs a fortnight in her bungalow, up to individuals who spend 20k a year on garden maintenance.
We are busy…… If you want 2hrs of my time it will be mid September.
t.I am a professional gardener and I run a gardening business that employs 3 other guys 12 months of the year.
2 vehicles - with everyone insured
12k value in tools on each vehicle daily in normal use.
Uniform
Annual training (first aid spraying etc etc)
Premises
Waste carriers tickets
Waste disposal costs
Equipment repair and purchase 6k pa
Fuel 150+pw
Employment costs
And then I need to pay wages & holiday… How much is reasonable to pay someone with a degree who turns up every day, works hard and has kids/mortgage etc??? - Good trustworthy hardworking and knowledgeable guys are like rocking horse s
t - Something you will find out for yourself shopping at the bottom of the market. In rural Devon I charge £25phr if its just a couple of hours due to travelling time etc, regular customers (weekly) of more than 4hrs per visit are charged at £22phr inclusive of waste disposal (maintenance)
The people we work for range from Doris who wants 2hrs a fortnight in her bungalow, up to individuals who spend 20k a year on garden maintenance.
We are busy…… If you want 2hrs of my time it will be mid September.
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