I need to sabotage a bid.
Discussion
Don't spook the seller by turning up with any Aisan friends though.caterhamboy said:
Sometimes offering an unrefundable deposit helps, say 10k on the numbers mentioned. Also get the agent on side by putting your house for sale with them.
But my guess is if anything like around here the developer is on good terms with the agent( brown envelope) Make sure you get your offer in writing from the agent.
Something similar happened to us a year ago. Probate sale listed on Rightmove, the estate agent stalled us on a viewing for over a week. Then told us the big garden shown in the details wasn't included ,and that had to be bought first for an extra £200k if we wanted the house... 3 months later it's back on Rightmove so I track down the owner/executor and learn the garden was always included in the sale. I offer asking price in cash, but a developer gets it for the same money, when I ask the seller why he told me an immediate substantial deposit was the carrot. A cynical person might think the estate agent was bent.But my guess is if anything like around here the developer is on good terms with the agent( brown envelope) Make sure you get your offer in writing from the agent.
Most estate agents are on the take, especially executors sales.
When I left school I started at one to earn a bit, and many times I would go out with the boss to look at an executors sale and the details virtually never went to any 'real' buyers.
I thought something was a bit iffy and I asked about it once, and was told to not get involved.
When I left school I started at one to earn a bit, and many times I would go out with the boss to look at an executors sale and the details virtually never went to any 'real' buyers.
I thought something was a bit iffy and I asked about it once, and was told to not get involved.
Alucidnation said:
Most estate agents are on the take, especially executors sales.
When I left school I started at one to earn a bit, and many times I would go out with the boss to look at an executors sale and the details virtually never went to any 'real' buyers.
I thought something was a bit iffy and I asked about it once, and was told to not get involved.
Of course there are bad ones, but it's certainly not "most" of them. When I left school I started at one to earn a bit, and many times I would go out with the boss to look at an executors sale and the details virtually never went to any 'real' buyers.
I thought something was a bit iffy and I asked about it once, and was told to not get involved.
In my town there is one (out of about 7 agents) who is well known for it.
8-P said:
Who turns down 100K even if it takes 3 months thats still a huge amount of money
Yeah but as a seller that £100k isn't real until the buyer exchanges on his own sale. A million things can go wrong and the whole thing typically takes many months.Whereas the developer is good to go tomorrow.
Massive difference.
I can'yt actually bribe anyone - career risk too high: I'd get struck off. All the Law Society need is a crime of dishonesty and your career is done for - an offence under the Bribery Act counts, sadly.
Having the developer disappeared though? That's a plan. No dishonesty as such...
Getting our house on the market asap, writing a letter to the vendor in the meantime...
Having the developer disappeared though? That's a plan. No dishonesty as such...
Getting our house on the market asap, writing a letter to the vendor in the meantime...
There's got to be a good deal to be had with the developer.
Assuming he's getting it for £1.2m They're looking at somewhere between £225 and £300K to flip the property.
(£100K stamp duty, £100K renovation costs, £25k fees/bungs, + any financing charges as he may be cash buyer but it's unlikely to be unfinanced). They're currently buying the property at £100K under market value but how much value will they generate through the renovations? £1.6m? More?
The London market for large houses is actually quite slow at the moment and with the uncertainty following the election, BREXIT, interest rates and alike property development isn't as easy as it was.
I would calculate the RORI on the deal and then you've got yourself some ballparks to have a conversation with the developer. There must be some sort of subsale or option that can be written that makes use of his financing/position and you're willingness to pay market value that means everybody wins?
blade7 said:
AC43 said:
Whereas the developer is good to go tomorrow.
Massive difference.
So was I, the bent agent got in the executors ear I suspect.Massive difference.
Round my way there are deffo links between agents and developers. I know people who get to buy properties before they even go on the market. But not, I suspect, before an agent has been round first.
Just sayin'......
So just met the agent. There are a number of bidders on the new house. He is recommending the seller to go with the smaller bids that are certain (no chain, finance arranged), unless he can get a higher offer that interests the client with a house that he can be as sure as possible is going to get sold i.e. he wants to sell ours.
He just saw our house, which he valued at £1.35m if we took our time on the sale and were willing to get into a chain, given offers he has had on similar houses in our immediate neighbourhood, and indeed one he has just sold on the street at £1.38m - same size as ours, but not newly renovated (bad) but Edwardian (good - people want older houses in London; ours is 1930s so worth less than these).
More pertinently, another house on the street that they have for sale is in the same group of houses as ours (so originally identical) has just had chain free offer of £1.2m, which the vendors rejected. Ours is 25% bigger (had a two storey extension at some point in the past), with one more bedroom, a bigger garden, overlooks the park (instead of a block of flats), and has just been renovated to a very high spec - so is better in every way. He turned up with an armload of brochures from his and other agencies' stock of similar value, and a list of recent sale prices.
He thinks he can get a chain free offer at £1.25m immediately from the rejected buyer, and other offers from the stock of buyers who have offered on other houses in the vicinity and been rejected, with sellers here looking for asking at what I think are inflated values. Whilst possibly selling at an undervalue, this is to me relatively risk free - if we can offer the seller a price he likes, and have a firm offer on ours, with the same agent, it is in the agent's interests to make the transaction, as he gets two lots of fees. Also, I will break even on our house including everything including stamp duty, renovation and his sale commission even if I sold it at £1.175m. I may not be maximising what I could get, but if that gets me to the "forever home", that is OK with me. If it does not, I don't sell.
If I sell to webuyanyhouse or similar, I may get £1.2m immediately on a very good day (maybe - no idea what offer they will make; we keep missing each others' calls), but I could end up with nowhere to live if we don't get the next house, having sold ours for less than I could have - worst case scenario, really. If I market with this agent and we fail in our bid, we pull our sale and except for a few hundred pounds of expenses, no loss.
Seller of the house we want is putting kitchen and bathroom in to make the house mortgageable, on agent's advice. The Japanese Knotweed in the garden of the house we want is being dealt with by a reputable company with 10 year guarantee being given. Now 2 years into treatment. It is currently 7m from the house - whilst not visible as it is being chopped back and treated, it is definitely an issue that needs to be dealt with properly, for us and mortgage company.
The developer has dropped out as was offering way below asking. Other buyers are a mix of people like us, who are around asking price but have to sell their houses, and chain free buyers at under asking price.
I know you can't always tell these things, but the agent seemed direct and honest. Did not give his client's secrets away (although I probed), was realistic about our place and did not go for a silly high valuation (Foxtons recently said £1.4-£1,45m, which I knew was nonsense), and just seemed like an OK person. You never know, but I liked the way he behaved and talked.
Our house goes on the market soon. Please PH, wish me luck.
He just saw our house, which he valued at £1.35m if we took our time on the sale and were willing to get into a chain, given offers he has had on similar houses in our immediate neighbourhood, and indeed one he has just sold on the street at £1.38m - same size as ours, but not newly renovated (bad) but Edwardian (good - people want older houses in London; ours is 1930s so worth less than these).
More pertinently, another house on the street that they have for sale is in the same group of houses as ours (so originally identical) has just had chain free offer of £1.2m, which the vendors rejected. Ours is 25% bigger (had a two storey extension at some point in the past), with one more bedroom, a bigger garden, overlooks the park (instead of a block of flats), and has just been renovated to a very high spec - so is better in every way. He turned up with an armload of brochures from his and other agencies' stock of similar value, and a list of recent sale prices.
He thinks he can get a chain free offer at £1.25m immediately from the rejected buyer, and other offers from the stock of buyers who have offered on other houses in the vicinity and been rejected, with sellers here looking for asking at what I think are inflated values. Whilst possibly selling at an undervalue, this is to me relatively risk free - if we can offer the seller a price he likes, and have a firm offer on ours, with the same agent, it is in the agent's interests to make the transaction, as he gets two lots of fees. Also, I will break even on our house including everything including stamp duty, renovation and his sale commission even if I sold it at £1.175m. I may not be maximising what I could get, but if that gets me to the "forever home", that is OK with me. If it does not, I don't sell.
If I sell to webuyanyhouse or similar, I may get £1.2m immediately on a very good day (maybe - no idea what offer they will make; we keep missing each others' calls), but I could end up with nowhere to live if we don't get the next house, having sold ours for less than I could have - worst case scenario, really. If I market with this agent and we fail in our bid, we pull our sale and except for a few hundred pounds of expenses, no loss.
Seller of the house we want is putting kitchen and bathroom in to make the house mortgageable, on agent's advice. The Japanese Knotweed in the garden of the house we want is being dealt with by a reputable company with 10 year guarantee being given. Now 2 years into treatment. It is currently 7m from the house - whilst not visible as it is being chopped back and treated, it is definitely an issue that needs to be dealt with properly, for us and mortgage company.
The developer has dropped out as was offering way below asking. Other buyers are a mix of people like us, who are around asking price but have to sell their houses, and chain free buyers at under asking price.
I know you can't always tell these things, but the agent seemed direct and honest. Did not give his client's secrets away (although I probed), was realistic about our place and did not go for a silly high valuation (Foxtons recently said £1.4-£1,45m, which I knew was nonsense), and just seemed like an OK person. You never know, but I liked the way he behaved and talked.
Our house goes on the market soon. Please PH, wish me luck.
Harry Flashman said:
<<stuff>>
You never know, but I liked the way he behaved and talked.
At times like this, I would take my own counsel…and think this is a good sign (especially in the field of EAs, some of whom really earn their reputation). Yes, he’s double-bagging on yours and the other house (which will make him happy and put your offer in a better light) but one deals with people professionally on a daily basis and one has to trust one’s judgement.You never know, but I liked the way he behaved and talked.
My word of caution would be re: the chain free buyer of your house as we had fun and games when we sold Mrs EJH’s house to buy, last year. We had our offer accepted on the basis of chain-free and then back-filled with house sale – accepted an offer 10 days after offer on new house was accepted. We also used the same agent for purchase and sale (they were instructed and marketing Mrs EJH’s house when we went to bids) as it does help them paint you in a favourable light when they’re being handsomely paid to!
We had 2 offers, these being:
1 House to sell – offered £x
2 No house to sell – offered 98.5% of £x
We took option 2…
Theere was some fun and games and plentiful heel dragging from him (offer accpted on 01/04/16, exchange on 28/06/16). This all came to a head on the 24th when, after weeks of going silent and being, “busy,” his solicitor contatced the agent and said,
“my client feels very nervous about Brexit; he would feel less nervous if you cut the price…”
We resisted this (very kind) offer and I’m afraid my reponse to the agent (who I liked and had got to know quite well during the rather protratced process of getting this chap to exchange) was inspired by Pressdram vs Arkell,
“ask him how he would feel if we responded with “go and engage in congress with yourself.” ”
After some more days of silence, Mrs EJH managed to get the ink on the paper with a move of audacious cunning but that’s a tale for another day
Anyway, in short, I think my steer from having been through this particular joy is make sure they’re properly cash (as our agent had qualified) and consider penalty / commitment clauses for your buyer.
Good luck!
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