What would it cost...to build an outdoor Kart circuit?

[nedge2k]

See now that's more like the answer I was looking for

[TooMany2cvs]

rodericb said:

VladD said:

You can even build your own hovercraft.

With a bit of a tweak it looks like you could have a cup holder on that throttle trigger assembly. One then won't need to preface hijinks with 'hold my beer'!

High risk of spillage, though, as well as affecting the joystick balance according to the level of beer remaining in the bottle. Probably simpler to use a camping chair with a beer holder. Or two. Lighter, too...

[Vitorio]

OpulentBob said:

12m wide and a mile long? That's getting on for M25-levels of width. I'd say you want no wider than 10m anywhere, probably nearer 5 for a karting circuit.

I would estimate my local outdoor track is indeed roughly 5m wide, and its listed at 750m long, no elevation changes either, so just flat tarmac

facilities are simple over there too, a simple garden shed as dressing room for those wanting to use a track supplied coverall/helmet, one bigger shed as the garage for the rental karts, one old school soccer canteen style building for refreshments and ticket sale.

Mind you, it wont be hosting any FIA events any time soon would be a riot to have at your own disposal though

[J4CKO]

There is a carting track on Anglesey called "Cartio Mon", it is a farmer who branched out after the Foot and Mouth thins a few years back, think he built it himself and the facilities have been improved over the ten years or so we have been going.

If you already own the field and can do some of the work yourself it probably isnt that bad but its still a lot of materials, also doing it for yourself vs something the public will use/attend is a different ball game.

[ikarl]

mackie1 said:

I guess my idea for an underground electric kart track would cost even more then

Not necessarily... there is an indoor cart track in Albufeira at the marina that has been built in the underground car park. It's ideal because the surface never gets wet, and it's always reasonably warm so the tyres get loads of grip the carts are gas powered I think but because it's already built as a car park there is plenty of ventilation

That would be the best bet I reckon.

[nickfrog]

Tuvra said:

Krikkit said:

I'd be surprised if you got change from £3-4m before you built facilities and assuming minimal landscaping, if you want it up to FIA spec.

Of course I'm sure you could do it much cheaper if you just wanted to bodge it for personal use!

How do you come to that figure?

Hire in an excavator, two dumptrucks and a blade, you'd have the land formed in a week at a cost of about £10k. Sub base and Tarmac would cost you circa £300k, throw in labour/machinery to lay it say £300k, that leaves you £390,000 for drainage, kerbs, tyre walls, lights, lights, fencing etc. Figures based on a 10,000m2 surface.

Cost of land, cost of getting planning permission ?

[TooMany2cvs]

nickfrog said:

Tuvra said:

Krikkit said:

I'd be surprised if you got change from £3-4m before you built facilities and assuming minimal landscaping, if you want it up to FIA spec.

Of course I'm sure you could do it much cheaper if you just wanted to bodge it for personal use!

How do you come to that figure?

Hire in an excavator, two dumptrucks and a blade, you'd have the land formed in a week at a cost of about £10k. Sub base and Tarmac would cost you circa £300k, throw in labour/machinery to lay it say £300k, that leaves you £390,000 for drainage, kerbs, tyre walls, lights, lights, fencing etc. Figures based on a 10,000m2 surface.

Cost of land, cost of getting planning permission ?

Change of use for the land...

[MDMA .]

for FIA, you would need the following - ( the circuit regs part ).

http://www.cikfia.com/regulations/circuits.html

[E36GUY]

There's a private kart track in the next village from me although the chap that built it has moved. No idea what the current owners do with it now.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/52%C2%B003'46....

[lufbramatt]

Buckmore park is about 1200m per lap which gives around 55 second laps in the 400-ish cc rental karts, and has a nice bit of elevation change. Makes it interesting as the little kart engines have rubbish low end torque so carrying speed through the corner at the bottom of the track before you come back up the hill is critical. Wouldn't have thought you'd need anything much bigger than that.

[MDMA .]

E36GUY said:

There's a private kart track in the next village from me although the chap that built it has moved. No idea what the current owners do with it now.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/52%C2%B003'46....

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/property/advice/propertymarket/3303780/What-price-your-passion.html

[lickatysplit]

going back to your first question, I'd have to add paddock hill bend, thats got to be one of the best corners in motorsport IMO

[Maldini35]

lickatysplit said:

going back to your first question, I'd have to add paddock hill bend, thats got to be one of the best corners in motorsport IMO

Agreed

Corum is also challenge and quite exciting when two abreast

[Nunga]

Topography is going to be the limiting factor for trying to replicate the truly great corners, especially crazy ones like Corkscrew and Eau Rouge. Nice dreams to have though; an old car park is a great idea for karting use!

[Rindergulasch]

Turn 8 from Turkey. Lots of elevation changes. Very wide track. Banked corners.

[lockup]

Will need a a bit of a climb if I'm going to fit in 1m20s -> 1m50s of this

[RacerMike]

Biggest cost on any circuit is the safety equipment. Armco barriers are about £300ish per meter, and you need 3 meters (i.e. 3 x 1m in a vertical stack) per m of track. So that's basically £900-1000 per meter x 1700m = £1.7m for outside armco only. You need it on the inside in a few places, so you're realistically going to need £2.5m for barrier, plus the cost of tyre barriers or TecPro barriers.

TecPro is around £400 per ft (from a quick search online) or £1200 per m, so assuming you wanted to meet FIA regs (I suspect they require the more advanced barriers on new builds), I guess you'd need another £2.5m there. So that's now £5-7m in armco and barriers.

There's then the gravel traps and other run off areas, pit lane of some sorts......

I believe the going figure is around £10,000 per m of track which would mean that a 1700m track would obviously be around £17m excluding any additional facilities.

However....that's for a full sized car circuit. For a kart circuit, I guess you'd be looking to half that maybe? Shorter run offs, less requirement for TecPro, narrower tarmac.

As for good kart circuit corners....

- Stadium at Rye House
- Oblivion, Crook, Fine Lady at Whilton
- Bryan's Bend at Warden Law
- The Esses - Clay Pidgeon
- Christmas - Whilton

And good car corners (a lot more difficult due to the huge level of elevation changes)

- Eau Rouge at Spa
- Pouhon (probably one of my favourite parts of Spa. Hooking it up for the second half is such a great feeling) at Spa
- Pflansgarten 1-2 at Nurburgring
- Wipperman at Nurburgring
- Paddock Hill at Brands Hatch
- Hawthorn at Brands Hatch (such a great technical, and blind(!), corner)
- Cascades at Oulton Park
- Jim Clark Esses at Croft (super fast and committed)

I tend to feel that on their own though, they lose their magic. I think half of the joy of a certain corner is what's gone before it or comes after it. The flow and rhythm through the section from Karussel through to Pflansgarten at the 'Ring, is so satisfying. It's not one particular corner that really nails it, but the general feeling. I think the reason Spa is so loved is the fact that it has a fantastic technical rhythm to it. A qualifying lap around there in particular is just so satisfying!

[silentbrown]

RacerMike said:

And good car corners (a lot more difficult due to the huge level of elevation changes)

- Eau Rouge at Spa
- Pouhon (probably one of my favourite parts of Spa. Hooking it up for the second half is such a great feeling) at Spa
- Pflansgarten 1-2 at Nurburgring
- Wipperman at Nurburgring
- Paddock Hill at Brands Hatch
- Hawthorn at Brands Hatch (such a great technical, and blind(!), corner)
- Cascades at Oulton Park
- Jim Clark Esses at Croft (super fast and committed)

Elevation change seems to be a key factor. I was going to add Paddock at Lydden Hill, Cadwell gooseneck and the old Dingle Dell at Brands...

Gerards at Mallory Park would be in with a shout, too

[Yipper]

You can build 1km of track at 10m width for about £500k if you keep a tight lid on costs and manage it well.

[Vaud]

RacerMike said:

Biggest cost on any circuit is the safety equipment. Armco barriers are about £300ish per meter, and you need 3 meters (i.e. 3 x 1m in a vertical stack) per m of track. So that's basically £900-1000 per meter x 1700m = £1.7m for outside armco only. You need it on the inside in a few places, so you're realistically going to need £2.5m for barrier, plus the cost of tyre barriers or TecPro barriers.

TecPro is around £400 per ft (from a quick search online) or £1200 per m, so assuming you wanted to meet FIA regs (I suspect they require the more advanced barriers on new builds), I guess you'd need another £2.5m there. So that's now £5-7m in armco and barriers.

Do you have armco at outdoor kart tracks? Only it looks a little "head height"?

The ones I have raced on have the conveyer belt style rubber + tyres?