Builder almost brought the house down..literally
Discussion
Update.
They have installed three monster steels all packed but we had a bit more movement/settling which has widened the cracks as that wa done. Engineer came and gave instructions for careful removal of the needles. Boss is back from tomorow and we have a site visit with him Monday morning.
Another insult to injury is that they hacked 1 foot off the ends of all the floorboards to get the steel in and the acrows through, despite the boards being loose from the plumber last week and my daughter's partner on the end of the phone telling them to take the boards up carefully and not cut them. They now have a load of 35mm boards to locate and install and some serious ceilng repairs to do.
They have installed three monster steels all packed but we had a bit more movement/settling which has widened the cracks as that wa done. Engineer came and gave instructions for careful removal of the needles. Boss is back from tomorow and we have a site visit with him Monday morning.
Another insult to injury is that they hacked 1 foot off the ends of all the floorboards to get the steel in and the acrows through, despite the boards being loose from the plumber last week and my daughter's partner on the end of the phone telling them to take the boards up carefully and not cut them. They now have a load of 35mm boards to locate and install and some serious ceilng repairs to do.
elanfan said:
Another thing OP - when all this has been rectified to your daughters satisfaction she should be looking for an insured guarantee (if the builders Phoenix the company she will have zero back up) I don't know if such guarantees are actually available but investigate and if they are the make them pay for one perhaps via the structural engineer - won't be cheap!
On the list for discussion with the boss on Monday.The plasterer says the workmen were calling the office saying the job was too big for them, asking for more labour, but were refused. The boss will be pleased.
Our engineer will look at the robustnmess of the repair,where upon the potential future issues will be outlined. At the moment they are saying there is no reason it shouldnt be fine but we have a surveyor lined up to revalue the house.
Our engineer will look at the robustnmess of the repair,where upon the potential future issues will be outlined. At the moment they are saying there is no reason it shouldnt be fine but we have a surveyor lined up to revalue the house.
Update:
Met with the boss on site today. A muted apology, said the subbie was usually very good. We had no idea he was a subbie as he arrived in the sigh written van and had their polo shirt on. They admit to not visiting the site (holidays and illness!). They are doing the bare minimum to repair the damage, Won't do any crack that isnt on the main wall although the engineer says it is probably from the collapse of the wall.
They are taking the needles out slowly over the next 3 days, knocking off Monday/Tuesday, our engineer is coming to tell them what is required to repair next Wednesday and inspect repair before replastering. Tried to justify cutting the floorboards (urgency) and say the window was just them ipening it and the frame is rotten.
My daughter's partner has an appointment with a solicitor tomorrow about the impications, including the idea of letting them finish the work and then not paying the bills ( about £7.5k)
HSE notification if requitred if it doesnt progress as planned as we have the pictures and witnesses. Might be of interest to HMRC to as these sub contractors use the company tools, van and clothes.
Met with the boss on site today. A muted apology, said the subbie was usually very good. We had no idea he was a subbie as he arrived in the sigh written van and had their polo shirt on. They admit to not visiting the site (holidays and illness!). They are doing the bare minimum to repair the damage, Won't do any crack that isnt on the main wall although the engineer says it is probably from the collapse of the wall.
They are taking the needles out slowly over the next 3 days, knocking off Monday/Tuesday, our engineer is coming to tell them what is required to repair next Wednesday and inspect repair before replastering. Tried to justify cutting the floorboards (urgency) and say the window was just them ipening it and the frame is rotten.
My daughter's partner has an appointment with a solicitor tomorrow about the impications, including the idea of letting them finish the work and then not paying the bills ( about £7.5k)
HSE notification if requitred if it doesnt progress as planned as we have the pictures and witnesses. Might be of interest to HMRC to as these sub contractors use the company tools, van and clothes.
mikeiow said:
I think getting it safe and talking to a solicitor to avoid it costing any money makes more useful sense than 'naming & shaming'.
Crack on, OP, I think you have taken the right approach through this nightmare!
She spoke with a specialist solicitoir last week who says let them carry out the remedial work under the direction of the engineer. Continue to emphasise that the 'fix' will not end the matter. Once the final engineers report is done go back to the solicitor.Crack on, OP, I think you have taken the right approach through this nightmare!
joshcowin said:
Don't see how this will help you resolve the issue in the slightest tbh, focus on that as its enough on its own!!
It's just another thing we may use to get them to redress the damage and delays it has caused. Legal action and his reputation are the big levers along with HSE and HMRC. At the mpoment w eare making sure the 'fix' is done well.Update:
Following legal advice the builders have been asked to only stablise the building and repair consequential damage (the floorboards) then to get off the site.
The plaster is off one wall and it looks like the damage is only to the joints and not the stonework. Good news if this is the case on the 1st floor. Engineer is coming as soon as the 2nd wall has the plaster taken off, hopefully with a surveyor to give an early opinion on the implications for resale value.
I honestly think the builder thought they could patch this up and still get paid as the foreman has been pointing out that if he took the plaster off any cracks (some old settlement cracks had widened) that turned out not to be down to their proppping, they would be charging for it.
Found out some really interesting stuff about the builder and the staff which it is best I not share at this point!
Following legal advice the builders have been asked to only stablise the building and repair consequential damage (the floorboards) then to get off the site.
The plaster is off one wall and it looks like the damage is only to the joints and not the stonework. Good news if this is the case on the 1st floor. Engineer is coming as soon as the 2nd wall has the plaster taken off, hopefully with a surveyor to give an early opinion on the implications for resale value.
I honestly think the builder thought they could patch this up and still get paid as the foreman has been pointing out that if he took the plaster off any cracks (some old settlement cracks had widened) that turned out not to be down to their proppping, they would be charging for it.
Found out some really interesting stuff about the builder and the staff which it is best I not share at this point!
dmsims said:
Have you considered the risk that if they are a Ltd company they might simply disappear?
They have been about for 40+ years, family business with about £400k in the bank but we have asked for their insurers details.Having seen the damage under the plaster in the first room and the second being knocked off tomorrow, they are feeling a bit more positive that this can be resolved.
Update;
Last of the plaster removed, including the walls they didnt want to take the plaster off a sthe cracks were 'old cracks'. Luckily task No 1 when they moved in was to photograph the whole house so they can show which cracks are new. The worst crack (has cracked the brickwork) is actually in a wall they were denying was their problem. Ceremoniously chucked off site.
Engineer due Friday and then they expect to helibar the cracks.
Still have to sort the twisted door.
Last of the plaster removed, including the walls they didnt want to take the plaster off a sthe cracks were 'old cracks'. Luckily task No 1 when they moved in was to photograph the whole house so they can show which cracks are new. The worst crack (has cracked the brickwork) is actually in a wall they were denying was their problem. Ceremoniously chucked off site.
Engineer due Friday and then they expect to helibar the cracks.
Still have to sort the twisted door.
Update;
Render is off the walls. Lots of cracks but only afew have damaged the stonework.
Structural engineer revisited and is writing a report on exactly how he wants the repairs carried out. He also climbed into the loft where the builder had said that there were no cracks. There were fecking cracks they had blantantly lied about.
The builder also tried to progress with boxing in the RSJs against the explicit instructions as they were told only to carry out stabilising work and to expose and repair the damage they caused and then to get off the site. They alos tried to effect a replacement of a large wooden lintel with bricks which the structural engineer says is the lintel that actually saved the wall from collapse. Still not squared the door frame.
Engineer is coming back to inspecta agin once the hellibars are in, before they re-render.
Surveyor is coming back to give an opinion of whether the damage is disclosable and what effect that may have on the value.
Render is off the walls. Lots of cracks but only afew have damaged the stonework.
Structural engineer revisited and is writing a report on exactly how he wants the repairs carried out. He also climbed into the loft where the builder had said that there were no cracks. There were fecking cracks they had blantantly lied about.
The builder also tried to progress with boxing in the RSJs against the explicit instructions as they were told only to carry out stabilising work and to expose and repair the damage they caused and then to get off the site. They alos tried to effect a replacement of a large wooden lintel with bricks which the structural engineer says is the lintel that actually saved the wall from collapse. Still not squared the door frame.
Engineer is coming back to inspecta agin once the hellibars are in, before they re-render.
Surveyor is coming back to give an opinion of whether the damage is disclosable and what effect that may have on the value.
surveyor said:
Photo's - every step. Build an album.
Useful if it goes legal - but also in case of Surveys in the future - just in case. A lot easier to record what has been done, then to have an engineer want to strip render to see what works have been carried out at some point in the future.
They have that and the engineer is in at each step, providing a report each time.Useful if it goes legal - but also in case of Surveys in the future - just in case. A lot easier to record what has been done, then to have an engineer want to strip render to see what works have been carried out at some point in the future.
They had the surveyor back who did their purchase survey. Sadly it was clear from the start that he knows the builder well (small town) and was very uncommital in his views. They have a new surveyor in next week.
Update:
Helibars installed and engineer is Ok with them. Plasterers coming Monday.
I sense the builder will now want paying.
Had a 2nd surveyor in who says as long as the engineer writes a full report there should be no diminuation beyond the possible reduction in potential buyers which is hard to quantify.
Their insuers lawyer says they have no claim for the lost wages of trades or the pain caused.
Nexyt thing is a sit down ith the builder to see what he expects to get paid.
Helibars installed and engineer is Ok with them. Plasterers coming Monday.
I sense the builder will now want paying.
Had a 2nd surveyor in who says as long as the engineer writes a full report there should be no diminuation beyond the possible reduction in potential buyers which is hard to quantify.
Their insuers lawyer says they have no claim for the lost wages of trades or the pain caused.
Nexyt thing is a sit down ith the builder to see what he expects to get paid.
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