Non-gas methods of heating your home
Discussion
Hi All,
We're just in the process of completing a sale on a bungalow Kirkby Mallory (home to Mallory Park!) and the village has no mains gas - this is completely new to us!
At the moment, being a 1960's property, it's got the original storage heaters which are likely to be quite expensive/ineffective. In the next couple of years, we do plan to make extensive alterations to the property so we're interested in both short and long term solutions.
A lot of the houses in the village have oil tanks/boilers, but I'm put off by the expense of oil and unsightly oil tanks. I would prefer to opt for a more modern solution. The main solutions I've considered are;
Electric Underfloor Heating - this is pretty cheap to install and wouldn't require any major plumbing work/finding space to install a boiler. However, I've been told that it's quite ineffective and expensive to run. In the longer-term, I could subsidise the running costs by adding some PV panels.
Air Source Heat Pump - slightly more expensive to install, but perhaps a more well established solution. This would then run a wet underfloor heating system. I don't know how the running costs of these compare with electric UFH.
I've not yet looked at the Tesla panels and I'm not too sure how they work, but perhaps they could be an option too.
I've discounted boimass boilers due to their high upfront cost and large physical size and also ground source heat pumps because I don't want to trash the garden.
Is there anything I've not thought about? Very happy to receive input from anyone who can help!
We're just in the process of completing a sale on a bungalow Kirkby Mallory (home to Mallory Park!) and the village has no mains gas - this is completely new to us!
At the moment, being a 1960's property, it's got the original storage heaters which are likely to be quite expensive/ineffective. In the next couple of years, we do plan to make extensive alterations to the property so we're interested in both short and long term solutions.
A lot of the houses in the village have oil tanks/boilers, but I'm put off by the expense of oil and unsightly oil tanks. I would prefer to opt for a more modern solution. The main solutions I've considered are;
Electric Underfloor Heating - this is pretty cheap to install and wouldn't require any major plumbing work/finding space to install a boiler. However, I've been told that it's quite ineffective and expensive to run. In the longer-term, I could subsidise the running costs by adding some PV panels.
Air Source Heat Pump - slightly more expensive to install, but perhaps a more well established solution. This would then run a wet underfloor heating system. I don't know how the running costs of these compare with electric UFH.
I've not yet looked at the Tesla panels and I'm not too sure how they work, but perhaps they could be an option too.
I've discounted boimass boilers due to their high upfront cost and large physical size and also ground source heat pumps because I don't want to trash the garden.
Is there anything I've not thought about? Very happy to receive input from anyone who can help!
You can get oil tanks for domestic use that can be buried underground, you'd never know there were there. You could perhaps dig a hole to their spec to cut costs and perhaps you carrying out the work may mean your house is worth more. Maybe worth asking estate agents about that.
Electrical heating, unless you have solar panels (of which Tesla's roof and solar city may not be that cheap) is quite often the most expensive way of heating your home. You'd perhaps want solar water heating too so not constantly heating water with electricity.
You may find new neighbours pool together to get their oil at a discount.
Electrical heating, unless you have solar panels (of which Tesla's roof and solar city may not be that cheap) is quite often the most expensive way of heating your home. You'd perhaps want solar water heating too so not constantly heating water with electricity.
You may find new neighbours pool together to get their oil at a discount.
Underground LPG tank is another option, but it will cost a fortune to run.
We've replaced our LPG with an Oil system, in January, its working out much cheaper. Combine that with a multi fuel stove and jobs a good 'un.
Understand your point about the tank - ours is a 2000 litre green plastic thing, which we've hidden with a garden shed.
We've replaced our LPG with an Oil system, in January, its working out much cheaper. Combine that with a multi fuel stove and jobs a good 'un.
Understand your point about the tank - ours is a 2000 litre green plastic thing, which we've hidden with a garden shed.
I'd hazard a guess that an air sourced heat pump driving underfloor heating would use about 1/3rd of the electricity that electric underfloor heating would consume. I've no idea what the running costs of the heat pump would be beyond the electricity. It'd probably be eligible for RHI subsidies that would partially offset the up-front and running costs. The pure electric system has the advantage of extreme simplicity and the disadvantage of extreme relative inefficiency.
I assume you wouldn't go for calor gas for the same reason your discounting oil.
I assume you wouldn't go for calor gas for the same reason your discounting oil.
I looked into air source heatpumps as part of planning a new house, I didn't get too much further than the ROI times as it is very marginal on a home with mains gas, as an alternative to oil fired heating it looked much better though.
To an extent it will depend on how long you intend to keep the house, you get some government rebate, search for Renewable Heat Incentive.
On a 1960's you should also look at improving the insulation as much as possible as needing less heating in the first place will save money.
To an extent it will depend on how long you intend to keep the house, you get some government rebate, search for Renewable Heat Incentive.
On a 1960's you should also look at improving the insulation as much as possible as needing less heating in the first place will save money.
Underfloor heating is very expensive and pretty useless in my experience (30 foot by 14 foot kitchen/dining and 3 bathrooms).
Air source can not extract enough heat in winter (as there is little to extract).
Ground source is better, but say goodbye to your existing garden.
Oil is cheap at the moment and you can hide the tank quite easily.
Combination of open fires/wood burners and underfloor heating...?
I think you have covered all the bases. If you come up with something else that really works PM me and we could make a fortune from it!
Air source can not extract enough heat in winter (as there is little to extract).
Ground source is better, but say goodbye to your existing garden.
Oil is cheap at the moment and you can hide the tank quite easily.
Combination of open fires/wood burners and underfloor heating...?
I think you have covered all the bases. If you come up with something else that really works PM me and we could make a fortune from it!
Oil heating really isn't that expensive compared to electric. I've had it for 6 years. 1000 litre tank gets filled once a year, between 700 and 900 litres depending on timings and how cold the previous winter was. I think the most I've ever spent to fill up was just short of £450.
I live in a 4 bed detached dormer bungalow, built in 1966. Not especially well insulated, particularly the flat roof of the dormer conversion. 11 radiators, old-ish Worcester Bosch system boiler. I've just had the boiler serviced (first time in the 6 years that I've lived here!) for £80.
Whoever had the system installed didn't bother paying for it to connect to the hot water tank, so I've got an immersion for that, which means the boiler doesn't really get used during the summer.
I did a bit of googling a while ago. Apparently oil gives 10 and a bit KWH per litre, and boilers like mine are around 85% efficient, so pushing 9KWH per litre of fuel used. At 40p a litre, that's around a third of the cost of electric.
I have a multifuel stove in the lounge, but I only light it when temperatures drop close to zero in the evening. The house gets too hot!
I've recently installed a Honeywell Evohome heating control system, which should reduce the oil bill over the previous timer and TRVs, as I won't be heating unoccupied rooms - as long as I remember to shut all the doors.
I also make use of the free heat in the conservatory by opening the door into the house. It's amazing how warm it gets in there, even on an overcast spring or autumn day.
I live in a 4 bed detached dormer bungalow, built in 1966. Not especially well insulated, particularly the flat roof of the dormer conversion. 11 radiators, old-ish Worcester Bosch system boiler. I've just had the boiler serviced (first time in the 6 years that I've lived here!) for £80.
Whoever had the system installed didn't bother paying for it to connect to the hot water tank, so I've got an immersion for that, which means the boiler doesn't really get used during the summer.
I did a bit of googling a while ago. Apparently oil gives 10 and a bit KWH per litre, and boilers like mine are around 85% efficient, so pushing 9KWH per litre of fuel used. At 40p a litre, that's around a third of the cost of electric.
I have a multifuel stove in the lounge, but I only light it when temperatures drop close to zero in the evening. The house gets too hot!
I've recently installed a Honeywell Evohome heating control system, which should reduce the oil bill over the previous timer and TRVs, as I won't be heating unoccupied rooms - as long as I remember to shut all the doors.
I also make use of the free heat in the conservatory by opening the door into the house. It's amazing how warm it gets in there, even on an overcast spring or autumn day.
Considering biomass (not log), how about a pellet fed stove? It can be a centre piece/focal point in a room and shouldn't cost that much to buy/install. I'm not sure how much heat they give out when heating just domestic hot water (during summer months) but I'm sure any decent installer/supplier can answer that question. Pellets are cheap when buying in bulk but you'd need to have somewhere to store/keep a pallet load at any one time.
ASHP. The Inlaws have installed them at their house as the oil fired central heating wasn't man enough. They only use the oil fired boiler to heat the water now.
Don't be afraid to heat your hot water with immersion heaters on economy seven. I've been doing that for the past 8 years in a highly insulated timber frame house with no gas. With the other electrical needs and electric oil rads in the winter our electric bill is about £125 a month on a 4 bed house.
Don't be afraid to heat your hot water with immersion heaters on economy seven. I've been doing that for the past 8 years in a highly insulated timber frame house with no gas. With the other electrical needs and electric oil rads in the winter our electric bill is about £125 a month on a 4 bed house.
We have air sourced heating and are very happy with it. It gets hot enough even in winter with minus temperatures outside, never noticed the outside unit freeze up as a lot of people warn about.
We only have a small 2 bed bungalow but aren't really careful of or electric usage and we both like to be warm! Worse winter bill was under £60.
Couple of things to bear in mind, as the air sourced doesn't get the water in the rads as hot as gas does you need to over size the rads, you need lot of insulation, cavity and loft, and if you turn it off it takes a while to warm the bungalow up, we tend to, when it's cold leave it on 24/7.
We only have a small 2 bed bungalow but aren't really careful of or electric usage and we both like to be warm! Worse winter bill was under £60.
Couple of things to bear in mind, as the air sourced doesn't get the water in the rads as hot as gas does you need to over size the rads, you need lot of insulation, cavity and loft, and if you turn it off it takes a while to warm the bungalow up, we tend to, when it's cold leave it on 24/7.
JulianPH said:
Underfloor heating is very expensive and pretty useless in my experience (30 foot by 14 foot kitchen/dining and 3 bathrooms).
Either the house insulated properly, or the system wasnt installed correctly.JulianPH said:
Air source can not extract enough heat in winter (as there is little to extract).
Not true, unless the system was not specified correctly.JulianPH said:
Ground source is better, but say goodbye to your existing garden.
Why? Other than whilst it is installed there is no reason to not have a garden.JulianPH said:
Oil is cheap at the moment and you can hide the tank quite easily.
What happens when the price goes up?Key is insulation if you're trying to run low temp heating, from ashp, gshp, whatever.
We have wet ufh in our kitchen, 1970s construction insulated as best as I can. It works. Just.
We also have wet ufh in an extension recently built that exceeds current insulation standards and is good and airtight. Even with the ufh loops running at a max input temp blended down to 30 degrees due to the floor covering, a room temp of 25-26 (oaps!) is achievable even through the winter.
Get the construction right, and it'll be a doddle to heat electrically.
We have wet ufh in our kitchen, 1970s construction insulated as best as I can. It works. Just.
We also have wet ufh in an extension recently built that exceeds current insulation standards and is good and airtight. Even with the ufh loops running at a max input temp blended down to 30 degrees due to the floor covering, a room temp of 25-26 (oaps!) is achievable even through the winter.
Get the construction right, and it'll be a doddle to heat electrically.
andy43 said:
Key is insulation if you're trying to run low temp heating, from ashp, gshp, whatever.
Very true, Charlie Luxton on his Channel 4 shows always tells those building new homes to upsec insulation at all times. They then talk about how they want a log burner, he says with the high level of insulation they would never need it. Go back after being built and find heating is never turned on and log burners just collecting dust in the corner.If you could increase insulation in the building, be that cavity wall or on the exterior you may find heating is redundant. Solar could then be used for water and power.
Electric ufh is very expensive. Wet ufh is the most efficient way, either using air or ground source heat pump.
I'm on LPG with wet UFH in a 3500 at ft barn conversion and it's still only £100 a month - because we have very good insulation.
If I was specifying from scratch I'd look at thermal store solutions backed up with solar.
I'm on LPG with wet UFH in a 3500 at ft barn conversion and it's still only £100 a month - because we have very good insulation.
If I was specifying from scratch I'd look at thermal store solutions backed up with solar.
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