Estate agent being cheeky, am I wrong?

[monthefish]

cb31 said:

Trying to sell a house, didn't sell after 6 months so we decided to move agents. The first ones were ok, tough place to sell but I felt they weren't really enthusiastic about the property so went to someone else. I gave the required 2 weeks notice and moved agents, he wasn't happy but there you go.

I get an invoice a week later for £300 for marketing costs which was a surprise, upon querying the unexpected bill the agent says it was in the contract and pay up. I genuinely hadn't seen a contract and certainly didn't sign one but it does say if we withdraw the property from sale we have to pay £250+vat.

I am minded to tell them to get lost as I didn't agree that term but am wary of being someone who doesn't pay their bills. I think the term is unfair, if we messed the agent around I would agree to paying their costs but they had 6 months go at earning the full commission.

What do you think? Pay the full amount? Offer a reduced amount? Ask them to pay my invoice for £300 for non-selling of the house after 6 months(about as valid a contract as their retrospective one I guess) first? Tell them to go away?

There's two issues here:

If the property didn't sell, there is a good chance the property was/is overpriced. Yes, there's a chance it didn't sell on account of the agent being st, but without knowing the facts, I'd wager the non-sale is price related which is not the agents fault (unless the agent told you it was the right price - did they?). The agent has probably incurred (more than) £250+vat costs so far and so, on moral grounds, I'd be inclined to pay them.

However, the Property Ombudsman code of practice has strict rules about signing contracts and cancellation periods, and in absence of a signed contract, I'd be inclined to tell them to foxtrot oscar.

Property Ombudsman Code of practice said:

Signing
5v You must sign and date your Terms of Business before they are given to your client. The client should be asked to sign and be given a copy to retain. The client must be given sufficient time to read them before agreeing to instruct you (refer also
to paragraph 5m above).

(notwithstanding the subtle differentiation between 'should' and 'must' as per highway code)

Have a read here:
https://www.tpos.co.uk/images/documents/rules-code...

[Ricky146a]

cb31 said:

Alright Clouseau

When I called up to say I was moving agents he said ok 2 more weeks notice then we can go, it was news to me but not a big deal.

This shows an agreement to ending any implied contract. If they were to charge you anyway then the 2 weeks notice would be meaningless.
OP, does the EA advertise a 'No Sale - No Fee' service? Most estate agents do.
Also, be aware that Contract Law is probably the most complex area of law along with Tort.
Having an implied contract is almost impossible to prove without accepting the other sides implied contract.
However, paying for disbursements is fair (monies that the estate agent has paid to a third party on your behalf such as commisioning an EPC).

Other than that just state that you upheld your end of the bargain and gave them their required 2 weeks notice and leave it at that.

[don'tbesilly]

bad company said:

Badda said:

bad company said:

So the EA decides to pursue the op. What exactly can they do?

They can issue a claim through the courts for about £25.

It’s £35. It will take them considerable time to make the claim. They can’t claim any costs apart from the £35 issue fee and from what I’m reading they’re likely to lose.

Not worthwhile for them.

How long do you think it would take to fill out a MCOL?

Once completed it takes two days to issue, and the defendant has 14 days to respond to the claim once received.

Is that a considerable amount of time or effort?

[Paul the Painter]

You could always refer them to the answer given in the "case" of Arkell vs. Pressdram.

http://www.lettersofnote.com/2013/08/arkell-v-pres...

[anonymous-user]

You don't need to have signed a contract to enter into a contractual agreement.

However, by not getting a signed contract, the Estate Agent is in breach of the 1979 Estate Agency act. Which is why we don't do anything until we have signed contract and ID from a vendor.

[Badda]

bad company said:

Badda said:

bad company said:

So the EA decides to pursue the op. What exactly can they do?

They can issue a claim through the courts for about £25.

It’s £35. It will take them considerable time to make the claim. They can’t claim any costs apart from the £35 issue fee and from what I’m reading they’re likely to lose.

Not worthwhile for them.

Oh a tenner out. They can claim this amount back and there needed be any further costs. The risk to the defendant is a ccj and the humilIation of losing a case.

Not clearcut.

[Badda]

Paul the Painter said:

You could always refer them to the answer given in the "case" of Arkell vs. Pressdram.

http://www.lettersofnote.com/2013/08/arkell-v-pres...

Literally everyone has heard that so it's lost its hilarity somewhat.

[Alucidnation]

I think £300 is very reasonable tbh.

[tighnamara]

Looking at this another way, what exact contract did you think you had in place if they had sold the house.
You must have agreed to some type of contract otherwise they wouldn’t have been selling the house for you.
There’s no way discussions would not be covered up front regarding all legal aspects, viewing agreements, advertising etc.

[V8RX7]

Alucidnation said:

I think £300 is very reasonable tbh.

I'll happily not sell anything of yours for £250 !



If they can't provide a signed contract then there is no contract other than the verbal one which IIRC was to sell the house for 1% fee.

[TooMany2cvs]

V8RX7 said:

If they can't provide a signed contract then there is no contract other than the verbal one which IIRC was to sell the house for 1% fee.

...subject to the usual terms of business...

[bad company]

don'tbesilly said:

bad company said:

Badda said:

bad company said:

So the EA decides to pursue the op. What exactly can they do?

They can issue a claim through the courts for about £25.

It’s £35. It will take them considerable time to make the claim. They can’t claim any costs apart from the £35 issue fee and from what I’m reading they’re likely to lose.

Not worthwhile for them.

How long do you think it would take to fill out a MCOL?

Once completed it takes two days to issue, and the defendant has 14 days to respond to the claim once received.

Is that a considerable amount of time or effort?

So the EA issues in the County Court and pays the fee. They back this up with particulars of their claim and the op responds with ‘I’ve never seen these terms before and didn’t sign or agree anything’. If the EA were to take the time to attend Court they just might convince the Judge but they also might not. If they don’t take the time to attend and the op says that he never had the terms. . . . . . . .

These things are never 100% certain but I would call their bluff.

[V8RX7]

TooMany2cvs said:

V8RX7 said:

If they can't provide a signed contract then there is no contract other than the verbal one which IIRC was to sell the house for 1% fee.

...subject to the usual terms of business...

It can't be subject to their usual terms if you've never seen their terms.

Equally it is "subject to my usual terms" and my terms are that I pay 90 years after invoice.

[Murph7355]

Badda said:

Very surprised at people supporting the OP here. He was given a contract and didn't read it - he then terminated the contract and had been invoiced as per the contract and somehow he's in the right?

Very odd!!

You don't know what he was and wasn't given. He states he wasn't given a cintract.

A couple of guys have also noted that EA's need to get signatures. I'm not an EA but have used them and have had to sign contracts both times. I wouldn't dream of starting work without a signed contract unless I was prepared not to get paid for it.

[elanfan]

Ask them for the £1000 they said they'd pay you if they didn't sell your property within 6 months. They've as much chance of getting their £300 as you have of the grand!

Tell em to jog on.

[RichS]

How about trying to defuse the situation and offering to donate £150 to a charity of their choice? Can't see them refusing that.

[Murph7355]

RichS said:

How about trying to defuse the situation and offering to donate £150 to a charity of their choice? Can't see them refusing that.

You either owe them or you don't. If you do, pay them. If you don't, do what you will with the money

[TooMany2cvs]

V8RX7 said:

TooMany2cvs said:

V8RX7 said:

If they can't provide a signed contract then there is no contract other than the verbal one which IIRC was to sell the house for 1% fee.

...subject to the usual terms of business...

It can't be subject to their usual terms if you've never seen their terms.

The fact you haven't bothered to ask what they are is not their problem.

V8RX7 said:

Equally it is "subject to my usual terms" and my terms are that I pay 90 years after invoice.

Did they knock on the door of your house and beg to sell it, or did you visit their established place of business and ask them to sell it for you?

[blueg33]

No contract is very unusual with an agent. If there is no signed contract tell them to get lost. They are in breach of the Estate Agents Act.

If there is a contract, read it again.

[superlightr]

V8RX7 said:

Alucidnation said:

I think £300 is very reasonable tbh.

I'll happily not sell anything of yours for £250 !

if you made your charge £840 and called yourself PurpleV8 you may undercut PBricks as well and still not sell anything.