Epoxy garage floor prep can I have a bit of help please?
Discussion
Morning!
Machine came from Brandon Hire - I think most of the hire places do them.
I’ve looked at this more - now I get it.
Put “epoxy floor laying” into you tube and you’ll see that the accepted professional way to do it is to POUR the epoxy directly onto the surface exactly as I was thinking. You then use a notched squeegee to move the liquid around the floor and achieve even coverage. You wear spiked shoes so you can stand in the coating and then as you clear an area your helper cross rolls the finish to make sure it’s smooth.
You do not, as I was told by resin coat, use a paint tray and a roller. That method might well allow you to paint a floor with the measerly amount of paint that I bought in the first place (which keeps it looking super competitive compared to others in this crazy world where it’s all about price and a race to the bottom) but you’re not going to get the concrete smoothed off with a rolled coat fed off a roller tray.
Using the pour it on method you can see from the videos (and my own experience confirms this when I poured on that can with extra hardener) that once you have a proper coating the epoxy has enough surface tension to self level even when it fills depressions.
So I’m now going to acquire some spiked shoes, a squeegee and I’m going to re- prime the bit we had to take back to concrete.... stay tuned hahah.
Machine came from Brandon Hire - I think most of the hire places do them.
I’ve looked at this more - now I get it.
Put “epoxy floor laying” into you tube and you’ll see that the accepted professional way to do it is to POUR the epoxy directly onto the surface exactly as I was thinking. You then use a notched squeegee to move the liquid around the floor and achieve even coverage. You wear spiked shoes so you can stand in the coating and then as you clear an area your helper cross rolls the finish to make sure it’s smooth.
You do not, as I was told by resin coat, use a paint tray and a roller. That method might well allow you to paint a floor with the measerly amount of paint that I bought in the first place (which keeps it looking super competitive compared to others in this crazy world where it’s all about price and a race to the bottom) but you’re not going to get the concrete smoothed off with a rolled coat fed off a roller tray.
Using the pour it on method you can see from the videos (and my own experience confirms this when I poured on that can with extra hardener) that once you have a proper coating the epoxy has enough surface tension to self level even when it fills depressions.
So I’m now going to acquire some spiked shoes, a squeegee and I’m going to re- prime the bit we had to take back to concrete.... stay tuned hahah.
Was it a specialist concrete sander you hired?
Will be interested to hear your verdict on the spiked hoes & serrated rubber spreaders (like the below?)
http://adbrufdirect.co.uk/resin-paving/resin-bonde...
Will be interested to hear your verdict on the spiked hoes & serrated rubber spreaders (like the below?)
http://adbrufdirect.co.uk/resin-paving/resin-bonde...
Julian Thompson said:
I did that in my last garage and I did find the tiles cracked easily. When I’m not messing up epoxy mixing I do some fairly heavy duty stuff (I’m actually restoring an old car which is why I’ve built this garage because I ran out of room in the last one!) so the ceramics aren’t really an option for me based on previous performance.
Having got to where we are I can tell you with certainty that a thickly applied epoxy floor is seriously durable - even hitting the cured stuff with a coarse belt on the industrial sander does little more than de-nib unless you make an effort to hold it in one place. I’ve also noticed that (and this is obviously my opinion only) the best result with the epoxy is where it is properly thick. I have a feeling they suggest rolling it on thin to keep the coverage sensible and the cost down but, again, based on attacking this one the thicker areas are far more resistant to sanding, scraping and even impact where I have had a test chisel at it.
Based on this I am erring towards the re prime and metal flake option.
I’d like to thank everyone who has helped me so far - tonight I’m really happy because although it’s not finished the problem is solved properly rather than a cross your fingers style solution.
i have an epoxy floor and it isnt as hard wearing as a ceramic tile,also dont go too thick a coating as it will chip more easily Having got to where we are I can tell you with certainty that a thickly applied epoxy floor is seriously durable - even hitting the cured stuff with a coarse belt on the industrial sander does little more than de-nib unless you make an effort to hold it in one place. I’ve also noticed that (and this is obviously my opinion only) the best result with the epoxy is where it is properly thick. I have a feeling they suggest rolling it on thin to keep the coverage sensible and the cost down but, again, based on attacking this one the thicker areas are far more resistant to sanding, scraping and even impact where I have had a test chisel at it.
Based on this I am erring towards the re prime and metal flake option.
I’d like to thank everyone who has helped me so far - tonight I’m really happy because although it’s not finished the problem is solved properly rather than a cross your fingers style solution.
Andehh said:
Was it a specialist concrete sander you hired?
Will be interested to hear your verdict on the spiked hoes & serrated rubber spreaders (like the below?)
http://adbrufdirect.co.uk/resin-paving/resin-bonde...
Those look great thanks - will see about them.Will be interested to hear your verdict on the spiked hoes & serrated rubber spreaders (like the below?)
http://adbrufdirect.co.uk/resin-paving/resin-bonde...
The sander was just a big belt sander - not a specialist concrete thing. But now for sure with the comments about thickness - I’m not sure where the fact lies. I was convinced based on what I’ve seen that thicker is better but maybe you’re better off using something to hone the floor and then use a super thin coat of resin.
Having said that, the five mil of residue in the bottom of the tin is so hard that you can whack it with a hammer and chisel and pretty much nothing happens. I just can’t for the life of me see how that can be beat?
A quick look at specs of a decent epoxy gives 55 N/mm2 compressive strength (higher than the concrete it's on) and high impact resistance (you can basically drop any tool you like on it and it won't break). They can be a bit prone to scratches, but if you're worried a polyurethane top coat will give higher scuff resistance. Also if the floor is properly prepped the epoxy bond to the concrete should be stronger than the concrete itself.
The tech specs tend to say thicker for better durability. Up to around 4-5 mm max (really you should be using fillers above 1-2 mm).
Note that a lot of "epoxy" on garage floors is actually just a solvent based paint with a bit of epoxy in it, those last like paints, i.e. not well.
The tech specs tend to say thicker for better durability. Up to around 4-5 mm max (really you should be using fillers above 1-2 mm).
Note that a lot of "epoxy" on garage floors is actually just a solvent based paint with a bit of epoxy in it, those last like paints, i.e. not well.
Edited by Flibble on Monday 26th March 16:14
I know that you have chosen to go down the epoxy route and I hope it works out.
After various unsuccessful experiments with floor paint, I eventually decided on Ecotile.
In about half a day it transformed this:
Into this:
On the plus side, they were incredibly quick and simple to put down. Oil wipes away nicely, and they are easy to clean. Axle stands and jacks make no impression on them. You can get nice little edging ramps too. And if you do wreck a tile, you can fish out the damaged one and replace it.
On the negative side, red hot lumps of metal melt into them, so grinding and welding require a little caution. And a BMW R100 on it's centre stand will make a dent in the surface. Which can easily be avoided by using a spare tile under the stand.
After various unsuccessful experiments with floor paint, I eventually decided on Ecotile.
In about half a day it transformed this:
Into this:
On the plus side, they were incredibly quick and simple to put down. Oil wipes away nicely, and they are easy to clean. Axle stands and jacks make no impression on them. You can get nice little edging ramps too. And if you do wreck a tile, you can fish out the damaged one and replace it.
On the negative side, red hot lumps of metal melt into them, so grinding and welding require a little caution. And a BMW R100 on it's centre stand will make a dent in the surface. Which can easily be avoided by using a spare tile under the stand.
Flibble said:
A quick look at specs of a decent epoxy gives 55 N/mm2 compressive strength (higher than the concrete it's on) and high impact resistance (you can basically drop any tool you like on it and it won't break). They can be a bit prone to scratches, but if you're worried a polyurethane top coat will give higher scuff resistance. Also if the floor is properly prepped the epoxy bond to the concrete should be stronger than the concrete itself.
The tech specs tend to say thicker for better durability. Up to around 4-5 mm max (really you should be using fillers above 1-2 mm).
Note that a lot of "epoxy" on garage floors is actually just a solvent based paint with a bit of epoxy in it, those last like paints, i.e. not well.
This seems to bear out my messing around attacking various bits of it - at 4/5mm thick it’s serious stuff.The tech specs tend to say thicker for better durability. Up to around 4-5 mm max (really you should be using fillers above 1-2 mm).
Note that a lot of "epoxy" on garage floors is actually just a solvent based paint with a bit of epoxy in it, those last like paints, i.e. not well.
Edited by Flibble on Monday 26th March 16:14
That’s helped me feel that I’m on the right track, thanks.
—
Those blue tiles look extremely smart - would have been a whole heap easier! Hell, I could have the damned car restored by now! Well not quite but you know what I mean! Nice car, by the way!
Ceramic tiles are as tough as it gets, but, it needs a decent bed. Not going to work with a blob of tile adhesive in each corner with a void underneath.
Did my last garage in ceramic. Just ace
Your thoughts on epoxy and applying it are all good. Do it right and you will munch through the stuff.
But, drop tools on it and will chip. Link a stonechip on your car. At our old workshop the usual trick was to unclip the airline from the tool than drop it on the floor. Cue a load of chips
Did my last garage in ceramic. Just ace
Your thoughts on epoxy and applying it are all good. Do it right and you will munch through the stuff.
But, drop tools on it and will chip. Link a stonechip on your car. At our old workshop the usual trick was to unclip the airline from the tool than drop it on the floor. Cue a load of chips
Understood and I remember wondering at the time if the builder had used lots of adhesive on my tiled floor in the last garage because they cracked for fun. I’m guessing the answer is a resounding no!
I’ll go ahead and try this and see what happens. Feel like we are too far in to reverse direction!
I’ll go ahead and try this and see what happens. Feel like we are too far in to reverse direction!
monkfish1 said:
Ceramic tiles are as tough as it gets, but, it needs a decent bed. Not going to work with a blob of tile adhesive in each corner with a void underneath.
Did my last garage in ceramic. Just ace
Your thoughts on epoxy and applying it are all good. Do it right and you will munch through the stuff.
But, drop tools on it and will chip. Link a stonechip on your car. At our old workshop the usual trick was to unclip the airline from the tool than drop it on the floor. Cue a load of chips
Epoxy will never chip with dropped tools. It's nigh on bullet proof. One of the quality tests for Epoxy paint when I worked at Marconi in Chelmsford, was a hammer blow.Did my last garage in ceramic. Just ace
Your thoughts on epoxy and applying it are all good. Do it right and you will munch through the stuff.
But, drop tools on it and will chip. Link a stonechip on your car. At our old workshop the usual trick was to unclip the airline from the tool than drop it on the floor. Cue a load of chips
Julian Thompson said:
Ps one thing I forgot to mention is that for enough stuff to do two coats it was £900 inc vat including rollers and the primer stuff. So that is less than £10 a meter inc vat. When I enquired about the price of the job “done” they said about £40 a square meter inc vat - now I like to pay people properly for what they know and for a quality job but that went right over my pain threshold - that’s a tonne of cash for what is essentially painting a floor - or so it seems sat here right now!
How does that £40 a meter look right now?!I have done jobs like that - such a pain in the ass!
Good luck - am sure it'll be great when done
Pat H said:
I know that you have chosen to go down the epoxy route and I hope it works out.
After various unsuccessful experiments with floor paint, I eventually decided on Ecotile.
In about half a day it transformed this:
Into this:
On the plus side, they were incredibly quick and simple to put down. Oil wipes away nicely, and they are easy to clean. Axle stands and jacks make no impression on them. You can get nice little edging ramps too. And if you do wreck a tile, you can fish out the damaged one and replace it.
On the negative side, red hot lumps of metal melt into them, so grinding and welding require a little caution. And a BMW R100 on it's centre stand will make a dent in the surface. Which can easily be avoided by using a spare tile under the stand.
Interesting you mentioned the motorbike and dinting the tiles. I ordered some from Mototile and they rang me the next day to ask what I was using them for and when I mentioned I'd have a bike on there they basically refunded my money despite me saying I'd spread the load.After various unsuccessful experiments with floor paint, I eventually decided on Ecotile.
In about half a day it transformed this:
Into this:
On the plus side, they were incredibly quick and simple to put down. Oil wipes away nicely, and they are easy to clean. Axle stands and jacks make no impression on them. You can get nice little edging ramps too. And if you do wreck a tile, you can fish out the damaged one and replace it.
On the negative side, red hot lumps of metal melt into them, so grinding and welding require a little caution. And a BMW R100 on it's centre stand will make a dent in the surface. Which can easily be avoided by using a spare tile under the stand.
Went with anti-slip porcelain with expensive mapei adhesive in the end.
OP sounds like a bit mare but I'd stick with the epoxy now you've got this far.
I think but could be wrong that you can go as thick as 1cm so a thick coat of say 2-4mm should provide a nice durable finish.
Think that's what I'd do. Reprime any bare concrete areas and one more thick coat over the lot.
I think but could be wrong that you can go as thick as 1cm so a thick coat of say 2-4mm should provide a nice durable finish.
Think that's what I'd do. Reprime any bare concrete areas and one more thick coat over the lot.
Haha - the £40 a meter thing is still hugely overpriced. Obviously I made a cock up but if I was doing it again now I know what I’m about there is no way I’d be messing with half tins so I’d never end up with wrongly mixed stuff.
Last night, late, I went in there and conducted the dropped tools test, given that I’m repainting anyway. I have the following conclusion to offer.
1) on the thin sections where we have applied with primer then two rolled coats dropped tools such as spanners from waist height make no mark. Dropping the point end (corner) of a heavy adjustable spanner from waist height chips the paint off.
2) on the thick (poured) sections the same test was repeated and from waist height there is no witness mark on the floor with the heavy spanner. From head height there is a very tiny mark in the surface.
In conclusion I feel like the earlier poster suggesting that there is confusion between epoxy fortified paints and proper epoxy paints and I would add that there is additional confusion created because painting it on and flooding the area create vastly different results. It’s not helped by manufacturers such as Resincoat putting people on the phone who obviously haven’t actually ever done a resin floor.
But yes, my very unscientific tests point me towards thinking that a thick coat of epoxy is about the most durable thing I’ve seen and that it’s vastly superior to a thin coat.
Last night, late, I went in there and conducted the dropped tools test, given that I’m repainting anyway. I have the following conclusion to offer.
1) on the thin sections where we have applied with primer then two rolled coats dropped tools such as spanners from waist height make no mark. Dropping the point end (corner) of a heavy adjustable spanner from waist height chips the paint off.
2) on the thick (poured) sections the same test was repeated and from waist height there is no witness mark on the floor with the heavy spanner. From head height there is a very tiny mark in the surface.
In conclusion I feel like the earlier poster suggesting that there is confusion between epoxy fortified paints and proper epoxy paints and I would add that there is additional confusion created because painting it on and flooding the area create vastly different results. It’s not helped by manufacturers such as Resincoat putting people on the phone who obviously haven’t actually ever done a resin floor.
But yes, my very unscientific tests point me towards thinking that a thick coat of epoxy is about the most durable thing I’ve seen and that it’s vastly superior to a thin coat.
The Moose said:
I read that again this morning and thought it sounded s
tty. Sorry about that - wasn't intended in that way 
Haha not at all - it was funny and quite apt!tty. Sorry about that - wasn't intended in that way I was in the US once in a Harley Davidson workshop with a pal. There was a plaque on the wall:
LABOR RATE - $30/h
IF YOU WATCH - $40/h
IF YOU HELP - $50/h
IF YOU HAVE ALREADY HAD A GO - $60/h
So funny!
Anyway - tonight we hoovered again and then are in the process of hand sanding the whole floor to make sure there are no bits of residue from either the acetone or the belt sanding - some of the debris from the belt gets kind of “wiped” back on to the surface and at high temperatures caused by the friction it won’t hoover off.
Tomorrow the plan is to finish the sanding, hoover again and re- prime the offending area as well as use some filler I have obtained from Resincoat to deal with the larger imperfections.
Julian Thompson said:
The Moose said:
I read that again this morning and thought it sounded stty. Sorry about that - wasn't intended in that way
Haha not at all - it was funny and quite apt!tty. Sorry about that - wasn't intended in that way I was in the US once in a Harley Davidson workshop with a pal. There was a plaque on the wall:
LABOR RATE - $30/h
IF YOU WATCH - $40/h
IF YOU HELP - $50/h
IF YOU HAVE ALREADY HAD A GO - $60/h
So funny!
Anyway - tonight we hoovered again and then are in the process of hand sanding the whole floor to make sure there are no bits of residue from either the acetone or the belt sanding - some of the debris from the belt gets kind of “wiped” back on to the surface and at high temperatures caused by the friction it won’t hoover off.
Tomorrow the plan is to finish the sanding, hoover again and re- prime the offending area as well as use some filler I have obtained from Resincoat to deal with the larger imperfections.
I wish it cost me only $30 per hour for work on my Harley
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