Neighbour wanting a front extension, not pleased.

[Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah]

desolate said:

paulrockliffe said:

It was mentioned earlier, but you didn't respond to it OP. If you have a mortgage and you have a right of access across that land, they will have an interest and they will defend the value of their asset. You're probably contractually obliged to let them know about this too, so you might as well get them involved when it goes to planning.

I think we can conclude that the access isn't actually in the deeds.

It is. We've seen as much in the deeds. What isn't 100% is if it is communal. The solicitor advised it was in comms when we purchased. The difference is that access is just that, being able to get out of the gate, communal is jointly owned, so needs permission from all to do something with it. If access wasn't in the deeds would our solicitor not have asked the question 'how do they enter their property?', as you'll see from the photo the gate is in front of their house, not ours. Access is 100% in the deeds.

[Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah]

Welshbeef said:

OP have you spent the £3-6 yet that many have suggested which will then verify one way or the other if it’s communist ground.


Until that is known you’ll be worrying potentially needlessly.

We have the title deeds in our position from the purchase point. Is it not just these that we'd replicate? The issue is that there are a few things which are unclear, which, based on what the solicitors informed us, require further clarification. At the moment the only term we can see on them is 'right of access', not the word 'communal', which is what the solicitor stated to us.

[Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah]

Efbe said:

kermit, just having a look round the area, a street behind your house on jellicoe st is this...


whilst it's not what you want to see/hear, looks like they have gone full on "maximising space"




could be worth while checking what happened with planning for them

Good spot, and yes I know that house, we pass it dog walking daily. It's actually the house of the daughter of a lovely couple who are our allotment neighbours!

I'd say the big difference there is they are end of terrace. Looking around various sites 'over baring', 'ugly' and 'out of character' are valid objections to submit, which I suspect shall be at least a good part of our objection. One thing I shall do in due course is mock up the size and shape of what he proposes in plywood or similar, and take current and 'after' photos from our open front door, to demonstrate in our objection how over baring such a structure shall be, so close to our front door.

[Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah]

Efbe said:

Welshbeef said:

Efbe said:

kermit, just having a look round the area, a street behind your house on jellicoe st is this...


whilst it's not what you want to see/hear, looks like they have gone full on "maximising space"




could be worth while checking what happened with planning for them

Whilst I’d not want it next to me I don’t find that offensive at all.
But if it were cheap UPVC well it’s a lean to conservatory on the front of the house.

agreed.

other alternative is for the OP to get the same thing done with the neighbour, have them done together so they match and get some aesthetic input into all of it

I few pages back I mentioned that further to what he discussed some months ago about UPVC, the structure is going to now be wooden, but essentially yes, still 'lean to'.

And RE us doing the same, no, we have something called taste, plus it would be of zero benefit with our house configuration.

We're also in the coming weeks replacing our nasty UPVC door with a sympathetic wooden one, with Victorian style glass. We've no desire to bury that.

[Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah]

Efbe said:

Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah said:

Good spot, and yes I know that house, we pass it dog walking daily. It's actually the house of the daughter of a lovely couple who are our allotment neighbours!

I'd say the big difference there is they are end of terrace. Looking around various sites 'over baring', 'ugly' and 'out of character' are valid objections to submit, which I suspect shall be at least a good part of our objection. One thing I shall do in due course is mock up the size and shape of what he proposes in plywood or similar, and take current and 'after' photos from our open front door, to demonstrate in our objection how over baring such a structure shall be, so close to our front door.

Google sketchup. much easier!

good luck with it all, though as a backup, in lieu of being able to stop it, it may be better to get on side with the neighbour and point out how a solid structure like the one I linked will increase value of property much more than a upvc extension that potential buyers will just treat as a porch and essentially ignore.

I'd take similar umbrage at a brick structure so close TBH. We haven't fallen out over discussing it, but he'll likely be unhappy when we object, more so if it stops it. Tough titties, he's shown no concession or even that he'd consider concession when we've stated our upset. He show's us no consideration, we'll show him none in objecting. Fairs fair.

[Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah]

CAPP0 said:

OP, shall you be taking action on any of the advice which shall have been given in this thread, or shall you continue to mither about it until the neighbour shall decide that he shall commence building the structure that he shall desire, whereupon you shall potentially have less options to take action against that which you shall probably dislike?

Yes, very much so, there's been some good advice. He won't just be building it, he recognises that planning is required. We shall be looking further in to if the land in front of us is considered access, or if in deed it is communal.

It is a very good point RE the 50% rule, as it just popped in to my head that he stated yesterday that he also wants to build a garage behind the workshop. I'd imagine including that he shall be close or possibly over 50% of his land. There is a 2m extension on the rear of his house, built around 2010 before he bought the house, is that also included in the 50% total?

Edited by Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah on Thursday 29th March 15:37

Edit. Just had a quick rough measure. The Wendy House (I love that!) is about 10.1m. He has a 2 metre rear brick extension. His free garden is 9.2m, And the carport behind the workshop is 5.5. the front yard is 2.6 m. So at the mo he his comfortably 12.1 taken v 17.3 free. If he builds his garage he shall be at 11.8 free 17.6 taken. Well over 50% of his land mass taken, which if I read it right would veto any front extension being built, as he would already be well past 50% of his land built on. If I seem him knocking a garage up anytime soon I'll go and give him a hand!

Edited by Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah on Thursday 29th March 16:11

Edited by Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah on Thursday 29th March 16:13

[Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah]

Henners said:

May have been mentioned, apologies if so - could it be thought that he's running a business from that 'shed'?

Someone down the road has a very nice garage - really well built, but has a hobby repairing motorbikes for what I'm guessing is a riding club or something and made quite a bit of noise.

Some bods down the road complained a fair bit and he got hauled over the coals about it but the council / planners

I am pretty certain that no business is being run from home. They rarely have visitors, and I've never seen his car being loaded with anything wood work (for delivery)

[Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah]

bennno said:

Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah said:

Yes, very much so, there's been some good advice. He won't just be building it, he recognises that planning is required. We shall be looking further in to if the land in front of us is considered access, or if in deed it is communal.

It is a very good point RE the 50% rule, as it just popped in to my head that he stated yesterday that he also wants to build a garage behind the workshop. I'd imagine including that he shall be close or possibly over 50% of his land. There is a 2m extension on the rear of his house, built around 2010 before he bought the house, is that also included in the 50% total?

Edited by Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah on Thursday 29th March 15:37

Edit. Just had a quick rough measure. The Wendy House (I love that!) is about 10.1m. He has a 2 metre rear brick extension. His free garden is 9.2m, And the carport behind the workshop is 5.5. the front yard is 2.6 m. So at the mo he his comfortably 12.1 taken v 17.3 free. If he builds his garage he shall be at 11.8 free 17.6 taken. Well over 50% of his land mass taken, which if I read it right would veto any front extension being built, as he would already be well past 50% of his land built on. If I seem him knocking a garage up anytime soon I'll go and give him a hand!

Edited by Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah on Thursday 29th March 16:11

Edited by Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah on Thursday 29th March 16:13

Its not 50% of his land, its 50% incremental footprint related to the size of the original building

point 2 in the post suggests otherwise. 'extensions must not exceed 50% of the land around the house' or words to that affect.

[Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah]

Elysium said:

Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah said:

Edit. Just had a quick rough measure. The Wendy House (I love that!) is about 10.1m. He has a 2 metre rear brick extension. His free garden is 9.2m, And the carport behind the workshop is 5.5. the front yard is 2.6 m. So at the mo he his comfortably 12.1 taken v 17.3 free. If he builds his garage he shall be at 11.8 free 17.6 taken. Well over 50% of his land mass taken, which if I read it right would veto any front extension being built, as he would already be well past 50% of his land built on. If I seem him knocking a garage up anytime soon I'll go and give him a hand!

So you have found time to measure his shed, which is largely irrelevant to your problem, but you have not been able to check your title deeds, which could solve it immediately?

For what feels like the 15th time! We have checked our deeds, it was one of the first things we did, and they are unclear. At a very minimum they state we have access rights, yet it is unclear if if the area is communal. The solicitor advised that the area was, so we need to speak with them.

It took 5 minutes to measure the size of the shed/garden/car port. If he builds a garage behind the wendy house (he's stated it shall be wooden structure, and he volunteered this information yesterday when we chatted) this shall be very relevant. It shall mean that probably 60something % of his land shall have structures and extensions on it, something which may well be very handy in an objection.

Edited by Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah on Thursday 29th March 21:27

[Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah]

monkfish1 said:

Im half tempted to spend the £6 and 5 minutes to find out myself so i can relieve the tension of not knowing the answer.

Serious question, as this is my assumption. Will the information provided not be just the same as what is in our possession, and unclear? We have the title deeds in our possession. If what is supplied is any different I shall do it tomorrow.

[Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah]

desolate said:

Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah said:

Serious question, as this is my assumption. Will the information provided not be just the same as what is in our possession, and unclear? We have the title deeds in our possession. If what is supplied is any different I shall do it tomorrow.

To someone used to reading deeds it will be perfectly clear.

But ultimately, shall it just be the same as what we have? We're not used to reading deeds, and it is unclear. Especially in light of the fact that the solicitor obviously had grounds to think it was communal.

[Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah]

monkfish1 said:

Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah said:

Serious question, as this is my assumption. Will the information provided not be just the same as what is in our possession, and unclear? We have the title deeds in our possession. If what is supplied is any different I shall do it tomorrow.

Im not sure what you mean by "unclear". But even if they are, im assuming you dont have his deeds? With both in front of you, it would likely make much more sense.

Do you deeds include he title plan? Thats usually pretty clear.

No they don't include his. That is a valid point, to acquire his, which I trust we're allowed to.

[Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah]

OK. I missed the detail we can acquire his deeds, we'll get them bought. We have our own deeds.

[Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah]

desolate said:

redact

I just had to Google that word, everyday is a school day! Happy to scan them and post, yes.

[Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah]

Elysium said:

Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah said:

OK. I missed the detail we can acquire his deeds, we'll get them bought. We have our own deeds.

Your land registry title entry will include a plan, as will his.

Yours is probably the same as the deed pack you already hold, but for £3 each I strongly recommend that you get both.

I have asked before if your plan includes any of the front yard?

The other question is what you have access rights over. This would typically be in the form of a covenant, which will name the plot of land benefiting from the access and the land over which the access is granted, together with a plan of each.

Useful info, thanks. What I have seen does show specifics for the front yard. It suggests the yards are separate ownership, but also states access rights. This conflicts with what the solicitor advised us, namely communal.

[Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah]

irememberyou said:

Perhaps the OP should just email the solicitor who dealt with his purchase?

Something short and simple along the lines of....

Case/Account reference

Dear Ms/Mrs/Miss/Mr

Last year (or whenever it was) You very kindly assisted wife & I with purchase of our house, an end of terrace cottage in row of 4? (provide him with Rightmove link).

You may recall at the time of the puchase we discussed with you the status of the front gardens, whether they were individually owned, communally owned and what were the rights of access.

Our next door neighbour has expressed the wish to extend to the front of the property from the boundary with mine to X metres across and extending outwards by X metres.

My neighbour hasn't submitted a planning application as yet so I can't be certain of the effect, if any, on access to my property however, for a variety of reasons, mainly aesthetic and with a view to any effect on house values, I would rather he didn't proceed with the extension but despite discussing the matter he remains determined.

Naturally, I am aware that the planning process will allow me to comment and object.

However, I did wonder whether there may be more fundamental objections that could be raised to the proposed extension in terms of ownership of the land in front of our houses and rights of access?

Is this an area on which you could advise me?

If so, I'd be grateful if you could tell me what your charges would be and when would be your earliest availability to discuss.


Kind regards

Fermit & Mrs

Atached copies of Land Registry docs etc

Edited by irememberyou on Friday 30th March 10:43

Thank you, that looks pretty good. Sarah has down to London to see family and friends for the weekend, so I'll discuss with her on her return.

[Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah]

There's a photo of us on our wedding day in my profile, you pervs!

[Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah]

OK, just had a look, is this the site I need to get them, and if so which section do I use? I presume it's one of the information services, but can't fathom which. Any pointers please?

https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/how-to-u...

[Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah]

alfie2244 said:

Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah said:

OK, just had a look, is this the site I need to get them, and if so which section do I use? I presume it's one of the information services, but can't fathom which. Any pointers please?

https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/how-to-u...

https://eservices.landregistry.gov.uk/www/wps/portal/!ut/p/b1/04_Sj9CPykssy0xPLMnMz0vMAfGjzOKNjSxMDA1NjDwsjM3MDTxN3dyNDUNMjQ1MjPWDU_P0C7IdFQG9k5Tz/

Thank you, I'm on it for both ours and his.

[Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah]

Nothing I can add having downloaded them. Outlined in red is his house, back garden and front yard. Exactly the same as ours. There is another black and white copy of ours, showing symbols, including one which is listed as right of access. I can't see it in our home pack anywhere, and Sarah's away for the weekend so can't ask her where it is. The only other thing the deeds/title plan cover is restrictive covenants placed on the property by the National Coal Board in 1980. Basically saying any property changes need their permission. The whole village has ignored this, and we plan to too, as at some point we are hoping to extend back. I can post anything up, but there's really nothing to see other than that.
The only thing supporting 'communal' at this point is email advice from the solicitor. [url]

|https://thumbsnap.com/LA6FmU9X[/url]

Edited by Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah on Friday 30th March 15:40