Neighbour wanting a front extension, not pleased.
Discussion
No specific advice to add OP, except extending my sympathy.
Let me guess, the neighbour is an obnoxious does as he likes prick who won’t listen to any kind of reason?
Unfortunately that front lawn looks far too small for hammering sausages into, you will have do do his back lawn under cover of darkness.
Let me guess, the neighbour is an obnoxious does as he likes prick who won’t listen to any kind of reason?
Unfortunately that front lawn looks far too small for hammering sausages into, you will have do do his back lawn under cover of darkness.
was8v said:
Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah said:
Sarah is going to have an upfront chat with him
Brilliant, get your wife to do it, great PH response!He definitely needs planning permission for more than 3m2 and depending on the ownership and rights on the land, he might need your permission too.
k with you. I'd reach that point, where she'll probably kill it dead by making him feel stupid by highlighting the facts as they are. Mothersruin said:
Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah said:
bennno said:
Planning required as its on the front, you can also flag up the 50% permitted development rule if his shed is as big as you have described....
That's the workshop. I suspect it's under 50%, but we're sure it's taller than allowed. 
I’ve studied the rules for PD quite a bit as I’ve just built a large garage using it.
His workshop is allowed to be 2.5 meters high from the highest point of the land around it. I’ve had this tested after a complaint about mine and I was successful.
1) it doesn’t look to me more than 2.5 meters high - I’m gauging this from the standard sheds around.
2) in the picture of the house before there was a raised area of the garden where the shed is now. If that was the original natural height there then he has an argument that THAT floor around the outside of the shed forms the basis for the height measurement and thus even if his shed is 3m high or whatever he is ok.
3) Looking at the houses behind the site seems to slope naturally down - If there is some higher ground still behind that shed he can measure off that...
For this reason and because it doesn’t look more than 2.5m I don’t think there is anything about his shed that breaches PD.
His workshop is allowed to be 2.5 meters high from the highest point of the land around it. I’ve had this tested after a complaint about mine and I was successful.
1) it doesn’t look to me more than 2.5 meters high - I’m gauging this from the standard sheds around.
2) in the picture of the house before there was a raised area of the garden where the shed is now. If that was the original natural height there then he has an argument that THAT floor around the outside of the shed forms the basis for the height measurement and thus even if his shed is 3m high or whatever he is ok.
3) Looking at the houses behind the site seems to slope naturally down - If there is some higher ground still behind that shed he can measure off that...
For this reason and because it doesn’t look more than 2.5m I don’t think there is anything about his shed that breaches PD.
Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah said:
He's an ex kitchen fitter, wood work is his trade. I have seen in it, and it is all wood machinery, and worktops. God knows what he needs to do workshop wise regarding wood. Especially to lose half his garden to achieve it.
The other neighbour is certainly taking the piss with his garden to shed man cave piss take. Next door appears to be good visually whereas neighbour+1 it’s pretty fatty OP I’d be mighty pissed off - but good neighbour relations are key. You’ve had good advice on here as to how to word it which should help you in spades.
Conversely he might be the sort of chap who smirks at you when you eel out those lines a knowing smirk - look at my garden yea who stopped me no one.
Julian Thompson said:
I’ve studied the rules for PD quite a bit as I’ve just built a large garage using it.
His workshop is allowed to be 2.5 meters high from the highest point of the land around it. I’ve had this tested after a complaint about mine and I was successful.
1) it doesn’t look to me more than 2.5 meters high - I’m gauging this from the standard sheds around.
2) in the picture of the house before there was a raised area of the garden where the shed is now. If that was the original natural height there then he has an argument that THAT floor around the outside of the shed forms the basis for the height measurement and thus even if his shed is 3m high or whatever he is ok.
3) Looking at the houses behind the site seems to slope naturally down - If there is some higher ground still behind that shed he can measure off that...
For this reason and because it doesn’t look more than 2.5m I don’t think there is anything about his shed that breaches PD.
An interesting post, which I would dissect and digest further, if and when we needed to use this as leverage. Truth be known, it's showing no taste, we suspect it breaks regs, and we'll just screen it. If he went in to full on tHis workshop is allowed to be 2.5 meters high from the highest point of the land around it. I’ve had this tested after a complaint about mine and I was successful.
1) it doesn’t look to me more than 2.5 meters high - I’m gauging this from the standard sheds around.
2) in the picture of the house before there was a raised area of the garden where the shed is now. If that was the original natural height there then he has an argument that THAT floor around the outside of the shed forms the basis for the height measurement and thus even if his shed is 3m high or whatever he is ok.
3) Looking at the houses behind the site seems to slope naturally down - If there is some higher ground still behind that shed he can measure off that...
For this reason and because it doesn’t look more than 2.5m I don’t think there is anything about his shed that breaches PD.
t mode it's an angle. In hindsight we should have asked the height/ size etc when he was planning it, we didn't, he cracked on. We had WTF reactions between ourselves, but so what ultimately. If it was illegal and he went full prick we'd leave no stone unturned RE it, but, that is not the position we want to find ourselves at with this, we need to live next door to them.Welshbeef said:
Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah said:
He's an ex kitchen fitter, wood work is his trade. I have seen in it, and it is all wood machinery, and worktops. God knows what he needs to do workshop wise regarding wood. Especially to lose half his garden to achieve it.
The other neighbour is certainly taking the piss with his garden to shed man cave piss take. Next door appears to be good visually whereas neighbour+1 it’s pretty fatty OP I’d be mighty pissed off - but good neighbour relations are key. You’ve had good advice on here as to how to word it which should help you in spades.
Conversely he might be the sort of chap who smirks at you when you eel out those lines a knowing smirk - look at my garden yea who stopped me no one.
Edited by Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah on Tuesday 27th March 23:54
Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah said:
An interesting post, which I would dissect and digest further, if and when we needed to use this as leverage. Truth be known, it's showing no taste, we suspect it breaks regs, and we'll just screen it. If he went in to full on tt mode it's an angle. In hindsight we should have asked the height/ size etc when he was planning it, we didn't, he cracked on. We had WTF reactions between ourselves, but so what ultimately. If it was illegal and he went full prick we'd leave no stone unturned RE it, but, that is not the position we want to find ourselves at with this, we need to live next door to them.
Seriously, leave the back gardens alone, you’re going to get into a world of neighbour raltion pain with next door but one too and that will mess up your chances of ever selling up. t mode it's an angle. In hindsight we should have asked the height/ size etc when he was planning it, we didn't, he cracked on. We had WTF reactions between ourselves, but so what ultimately. If it was illegal and he went full prick we'd leave no stone unturned RE it, but, that is not the position we want to find ourselves at with this, we need to live next door to them.Keep the issue to the proposed front extension and follow the advice on here. Tit for tat escalations never end well for anybody.
Op
1. a call to planning department (if they actually pick up) costs you nothing to gain an understanding
2. Maybe you have legal cover in home insurance so might be worth a call
3. A’s so many have said If it’s legally shared area which he is trying to acquire for additional internalspace for his property it’s not allowed. Why not spend 60mins cost with a legal expert in this area, at least you’ll know for sure one way or the other.
OP I know exactly where your coming from having to worry about neighbours when you’ve work to deal with and all other of life’s challenges. Neighbours being nice or trouble free is exactly what you want.
Don’t call him a count to his face if you can help it.
1. a call to planning department (if they actually pick up) costs you nothing to gain an understanding
2. Maybe you have legal cover in home insurance so might be worth a call
3. A’s so many have said If it’s legally shared area which he is trying to acquire for additional internalspace for his property it’s not allowed. Why not spend 60mins cost with a legal expert in this area, at least you’ll know for sure one way or the other.
OP I know exactly where your coming from having to worry about neighbours when you’ve work to deal with and all other of life’s challenges. Neighbours being nice or trouble free is exactly what you want.
Don’t call him a count to his face if you can help it.
Gavia said:
Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah said:
An interesting post, which I would dissect and digest further, if and when we needed to use this as leverage. Truth be known, it's showing no taste, we suspect it breaks regs, and we'll just screen it. If he went in to full on tt mode it's an angle. In hindsight we should have asked the height/ size etc when he was planning it, we didn't, he cracked on. We had WTF reactions between ourselves, but so what ultimately. If it was illegal and he went full prick we'd leave no stone unturned RE it, but, that is not the position we want to find ourselves at with this, we need to live next door to them.
Seriously, leave the back gardens alone, you’re going to get into a world of neighbour raltion pain with next door but one too and that will mess up your chances of ever selling up. t mode it's an angle. In hindsight we should have asked the height/ size etc when he was planning it, we didn't, he cracked on. We had WTF reactions between ourselves, but so what ultimately. If it was illegal and he went full prick we'd leave no stone unturned RE it, but, that is not the position we want to find ourselves at with this, we need to live next door to them.Keep the issue to the proposed front extension and follow the advice on here. Tit for tat escalations never end well for anybody.
Gavia said:
Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah said:
An interesting post, which I would dissect and digest further, if and when we needed to use this as leverage. Truth be known, it's showing no taste, we suspect it breaks regs, and we'll just screen it. If he went in to full on tt mode it's an angle. In hindsight we should have asked the height/ size etc when he was planning it, we didn't, he cracked on. We had WTF reactions between ourselves, but so what ultimately. If it was illegal and he went full prick we'd leave no stone unturned RE it, but, that is not the position we want to find ourselves at with this, we need to live next door to them.
Seriously, leave the back gardens alone, you’re going to get into a world of neighbour raltion pain with next door but one too and that will mess up your chances of ever selling up. t mode it's an angle. In hindsight we should have asked the height/ size etc when he was planning it, we didn't, he cracked on. We had WTF reactions between ourselves, but so what ultimately. If it was illegal and he went full prick we'd leave no stone unturned RE it, but, that is not the position we want to find ourselves at with this, we need to live next door to them.Keep the issue to the proposed front extension and follow the advice on here. Tit for tat escalations never end well for anybody.
You have mentioned several times that the space in front of the property is common parts
If this is true, then he cannot build on it. The situation is that simple.
Check your title deeds carefully and if this is the case, then let him know. You will be doing him a favour as he would make his house unsellable by extending onto land he does not fully control.
Do not even think about planning matters, neighbourly relations or anything else until you have clariity on this very basic point.
If this is true, then he cannot build on it. The situation is that simple.
Check your title deeds carefully and if this is the case, then let him know. You will be doing him a favour as he would make his house unsellable by extending onto land he does not fully control.
Do not even think about planning matters, neighbourly relations or anything else until you have clariity on this very basic point.
Elysium said:
Do not even think about planning matters, neighbourly relations or anything else until you have clariity on this very basic point.
I would agree with that. I spent five long years as an elected Councillor and deputy chair of the planning committee, and spent a large part of that time with a queue of people (often angry!) at my surgery wishing to discuss contentious planning applications. There were a number of applications where neighbours/objectors questioned ownership of the site/proposal, and they always struggled with the response that it wasn't a material planning consideration. I always advised them to seek proper legal advice at the earliest opportunity.Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah said:
He's an ex kitchen fitter, wood work is his trade. I have seen in it, and it is all wood machinery, and worktops. God knows what he needs to do workshop wise regarding wood. Especially to lose half his garden to achieve it.
If he's running his trade from that"shed", does he need planning permission for that?- I* haven't a clue,but if so it's another boot to kick him with
tim0409 said:
Elysium said:
Do not even think about planning matters, neighbourly relations or anything else until you have clariity on this very basic point.
I would agree with that. I spent five long years as an elected Councillor and deputy chair of the planning committee, and spent a large part of that time with a queue of people (often angry!) at my surgery wishing to discuss contentious planning applications. There were a number of applications where neighbours/objectors questioned ownership of the site/proposal, and they always struggled with the response that it wasn't a material planning consideration. I always advised them to seek proper legal advice at the earliest opportunity.However, in order for an application to be valid, the freeholder must be notified. If the OP has a legal interest in this land, as common parts, then the application cannot be lawfully validated without his involvement.
One of my relatives had an issue a few years ago where a neighbour wanted to build an extension which would be partially supported by his garage. the drawings they submitted for planning made it look as if the garage was part of the applicants property. I spoke with the planning officer to make sure they
understood it was not and they asked the applicant to withdraw as it would not be lawful to proceed further with the application.
Put simply, if the OP's neighbour does not have full and unfettered legal ownership of this land, he cannot move forward.
Edited by Elysium on Thursday 29th March 15:30
To answer the few points above. No, he's not running any business as far as we know. Also we never see strangers come and go, which would be happening if he was trading as anything. AFAIK he's retired, mid 60's.
We won't be moving, we love the house, and its position. No one here is planning on starting war with a neighbour, how ever annoyed I am by him.
24 hours on we're armed with a lot more essential knowledge. In as much that he's allowed a 'porch' up to 3m2, not within 2 metres of a boundary. If outside of these parameters, he needs planning, which he's unlikely to get. Plus the fact we believe he doesn't 'own' the land to the front of his house.
We genuinely believe he hasn't even considered planning, and unchallenged would just start to build. When we see him, or if S goes to chat to him (undecided) we'll politely bring up that we're not happy with his idea of building so close to us. He'll either be considerate - unlikely, he's stated he's only interested in maxing his space - or not. If not we'll ask when he's looking to submit planning, and point out these regs.
Had he not pushed so far with so little sympathy for his neighbours (any decent person would accept a neighbour would be pissed at an extension 6" away from their front door....) we would have likely have not been thrilled, but would have taken the attitude of 'his house'.
Silly old fool.
We won't be moving, we love the house, and its position. No one here is planning on starting war with a neighbour, how ever annoyed I am by him.
24 hours on we're armed with a lot more essential knowledge. In as much that he's allowed a 'porch' up to 3m2, not within 2 metres of a boundary. If outside of these parameters, he needs planning, which he's unlikely to get. Plus the fact we believe he doesn't 'own' the land to the front of his house.
We genuinely believe he hasn't even considered planning, and unchallenged would just start to build. When we see him, or if S goes to chat to him (undecided) we'll politely bring up that we're not happy with his idea of building so close to us. He'll either be considerate - unlikely, he's stated he's only interested in maxing his space - or not. If not we'll ask when he's looking to submit planning, and point out these regs.
Had he not pushed so far with so little sympathy for his neighbours (any decent person would accept a neighbour would be pissed at an extension 6" away from their front door....) we would have likely have not been thrilled, but would have taken the attitude of 'his house'.
Silly old fool.
Gassing Station | Homes, Gardens and DIY | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff