Moving a neighbours fence

[alfie2244]

number2 said:

The plan shows the fence running parallel to the neighbours house, curving left round the op's garage, then continuing parallel with the neighbours house.

Edited by number2 on Thursday 14th June 19:16

Too small a scale to be accurate but the rear fence line doesn't appear to run parallel to the house to my eyes.

I dealt with a boundary dispute on behalf of my father, after initial heated aggro, we both agreed to jointly appoint a land surveyor and agree to his determination of where the boundary should be and a solicitor to register the exact boundary details / measurements with Land Reg...........loser to pay all fees.

Luckily we could also produce a photo pre-dating my father's ownership by 30yrs which showed exactly where it should be

[Chrisgr31]

A few years ago I was involved in a mediation between 2 neighbours which concerned a boundary between them and an argument the new fence was in the wrong place by about 18 inches. It was plainly clear that the fence was in the wrong place but it did become clear why the party who had gained didnt want to move it back. The additional 18 inches was crucial to enable them to build in the garden.

Its certainly worth raising a dispute now, it wont necessarily affect future value as long as it gets settled. If its not settled its likely to become an issue on sale when the potential buyer realises its in the wrong place.

Agree £140 to locate the boundary seems very reasonable if not cheap.

[The Moose]

As I read it, the photo is taken at the blue dot in the image below and taken approximately in the direction of the blue arrow:



Looking at the above, the rear garden fence intersects the blue line and the fence line extends out to be behind the garage. When looking along the side of the garage in the OP's photo from the blue dot, I would expect to see the fence in the rear garden where the yellow arrow is.



I can't see this fence in the posted photo and am curious as to what I am missing!!

[Evanivitch]

The Moose said:

I can't see this fence in the posted photo and am curious as to what I am missing!!

Look at it another way, the deed map shows the boundary pinching at the corner of the neighbours property.

In the photo there's clearly no pinch point.

That's because the neighbour has straight-lined the fence.

[The Moose]

Evanivitch said:

The Moose said:

I can't see this fence in the posted photo and am curious as to what I am missing!!

Look at it another way, the deed map shows the boundary pinching at the corner of the neighbours property.

In the photo there's clearly no pinch point.

That's because the neighbour has straight-lined the fence.

I understand that and am not debating that! I am just trying to work out what’s going on and whether I’m missing something!

I’m not arguing for or against the OP.

If the boundary is incorrect all along that side of the property, could the neighbor argue that the plan is meaningless as it doesn’t represent reality?

[DocJock]

Comparing the plan on the deeds with the photograph shows just how inaccurate these plans can be.

If you extend a line forwards from, and parallel to, the gable of the neighbours house, the fence should start (at best) from a point immediately adjacent to the flagstone path, if not even further over.

Clearly, from the OP's description, that has never been the case, so just how much value is there to the boundary marking on the posted plan?

[CHARLESBERG]

I think I can see what 'The Moose' is getting at- the fence starts to far into the OP's boundary but then behind the garage is too far into the neighbours garden?

I assume the plans are to some form of scale. Couldn't you measure his house, then work out how far the fence viewed from the front and at the path should be from the side of his house. That will show you how far out he is?

[Evanivitch]

The Moose said:

Evanivitch said:

The Moose said:

I can't see this fence in the posted photo and am curious as to what I am missing!!

Look at it another way, the deed map shows the boundary pinching at the corner of the neighbours property.

In the photo there's clearly no pinch point.

That's because the neighbour has straight-lined the fence.

I understand that and am not debating that! I am just trying to work out what’s going on and whether I’m missing something!

I’m not arguing for or against the OP.

If the boundary is incorrect all along that side of the property, could the neighbor argue that the plan is meaningless as it doesn’t represent reality?

Reading it again you've raised a good point.

Perhaps there's an element of jeopardy to the OP making this legal. (Re)Gain some ground and lose some too?

[The Moose]

Ultimately I have no idea!!

Only the OP can help us with this. It’s entirely possible that there’s some illusion going on in the photo

[Kinkell]

Is it not the case that boundary lines are usually straight. I do a bit of fencing and removing hedges in my daily routine and most are pretty straight line perhaps with an elbow here and there. We recently removed a 60 year old privet after initially negotiating the price 3 years hence with the adjoining neighbour. Our client sought legal advice regarding the boundary after the neighbour ignored her correspondence. Halfway through the hedge removal the neighbour and daughter, he's ninety and the daughter is late sixties, skid their fiesta to a halt at the scene and throw a right old wobbly.
" this is criminal damage, I have lived here 50 years" says the neighbour
" Call the polis then, because you have had 3 years to resolve this issue and failed to respond to any communication" says our man.
Hedge removed and replaced by fence without encroaching a border.

[DanSkoda]

The photo looking down the drive at the fence is taken from the public footpath. There's a gap of 3ft or more to the first post where they've left one of the stumps in place.

If you can see the little piece of fence sticking out heading left into our garden, the rear part of their fence is directly behind that. It's arrow straight at the rear, hence why it doesn't show on the photo.

Looking through our previous deeds, our boundary has changed in the area in question.

A little bit of history here, ours has been here from around 1870, give or take. Theirs has been around since very late 1970's, early 1980's.
Previously our deeds show the boundary curved in towards us, well, the one we have from 1960 shows this. The other deeds we have (2 sets from dates that escape me now) show it curving outwards as per the neighbours deeds.
It appears when the land was sold up by the fella who owned all the land surrounding our and adjoining neighbour (we're the right side of a semi), our deeds changed to show the curve outwards. It was all just fields surrounding our house, literally the only one, well 2 including the adjoining neighbour, on the entire street.

To me, it looks like when he divided up the land, he adjusted our boundary to include the trees/hedge that would have seperated the garden from the field.

In other news, the neighbours go away next week apparently. Where's them sausages at?

[Digger]

DanSkoda said:

In other news, the neighbours go away next week apparently. Where's them sausages at?

Really? How on earth do you know that?

[Kinkell]

You don't sound like you'll let it go so best of luck.

[williamp]

Might it be worth contacting the people who did the work: what were they told? Did it need permissions at all? Did they check who owned what?

[DanSkoda]

We're pretty certain the rear garden fence of theirs is in the correct place.
The local landlord mentioned it in passing today that our new neighbours are on holiday next week. What with them being semi or possibly fully retired I hazard a guess that he doesn't mean they'll be off work couped up in the house.

I'm thinking having a chat with the other neighbours or even the parish council could yield the details of the company who carried out the work. Not that I'd go after them, just get so more info on what they were told to do etc.

[Kinkell]

Contractors are upwards and onwards. Too busy for any nonsense once paid. The neighbour in this instance is responsible for future action however it pans out.

[The Moose]

If you know they are away for sure, I’d get a company in. Tell them the previous lot put it in the wrong place and won’t rectify. Show them the plans to prove it.

Remove the old fence, get a new one installed and let it all unfold.

Get the company to be careful when removing the old one - tell them it’s still the property of the previous fencing company so they need to remove carefully.

I can’t see that taking more than a day to get done.

[Digger]

The Moose said:

If you know they are away for sure, I’d get a company in. Tell them the previous lot put it in the wrong place and won’t rectify. Show them the plans to prove it.

Remove the old fence, get a new one installed and let it all unfold.

Get the company to be careful when removing the old one - tell them it’s still the property of the previous fencing company so they need to remove carefully.

I can’t see that taking more than a day to get done.

Eh?

[clarkey]

I'm late to the thread, but it looks like an enormous piss take to me. Best of luck with it, I haven't got anything more helpful to add!

[DonkeyApple]

DanSkoda said:

We're pretty certain the rear garden fence of theirs is in the correct place.
The local landlord mentioned it in passing today that our new neighbours are on holiday next week. What with them being semi or possibly fully retired I hazard a guess that he doesn't mean they'll be off work couped up in the house.

I'm thinking having a chat with the other neighbours or even the parish council could yield the details of the company who carried out the work. Not that I'd go after them, just get so more info on what they were told to do etc.

Dan, seriously, stop putting obstacles deliberately in your path so as you guarantee failure.

You’ve already mentioned that your FiL returns from holiday and that he may have some advice/support. That is totally irrelevant.

The neighbours going on holiday. Totally irrelevant.

What your other neighbours think. Totally irrelevant.

You’ve paid for a basic survey. Totally irrelevant.

You spoke to your neighbour upon your return and he clearly and explicitly told you that you need to use a solicitor in order to make him return what he has deliberately stolen from you.

Every single day that you put off engaging the services of a solicitor sees your neighbour who is fully aware that he has stolen from you and is very clearly a bully becoming more and more resolute in his mindset. That is how they work. They know that they have stolen and in the initial period they are on edge and nervous over what they have done in order to get the space to add thousands of pounds in value to their only asset. But every single day that you remain silent or waste time gossiping with landloards, FiLs, neighbours etc he becomes more emboldened and entrenched in his belief as the way the human mind works he will be believing more and more that he is in the right. Frankly by the time he returns from his relaxing break he will see you as the aggressor who is trying to steal his garage and ergo thousands of pounds of value uplift from him, his wife and his children.

He has very clearly stolen from you and you should have sat down with a solicitor the day after you returned to discover this. What you want is a formal letter through his letter box before he goes on holiday. Especially as this means he will return from his holiday not in the total belief that he is right in his annexation.

With bullies it is so important to act early and strongly because time is their friend and your enemy.